Cross Country Old route map now.

[thenorthern]

While cleaning up the other day I noticed a Cross Country timetable from 2008 which was the old Virgin Trains map re-branded cross country and I was thinking how would that map look now. So far I can see is the Brighton section and the line via Crewe would have been removed, the line via Doncaster would have changed colour and Newcastle would now be the terminus of the green line. Can anyone think of any other changes.

 

[Eagle]

The line via Crewe would still be there; there are still XC services to Manchester via Crewe (albeit not very many).

Also the line that terminated at Reading would now continue to Southampton.

 

[SprinterMan]

Something like this, perhaps:

http://s8.postimg.org/5221mqu7p/New_Cross_Country_Route_Map.jpg

I did it with paint. Adam

 

[thenorthern]

Something like this, perhaps:

I did it with paint. Adam

Very very good job, only thing I can see is wouldn't the Cardiff Central line be blue not orange.

 

[tractakid]

Has the Seven moved to Wales?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Seven

:P

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Very very good job, only thing I can see is wouldn't the Cardiff Central line be blue not orange.

XC serve Cardiff Central with a daily train from Manchester.

 

[Eagle]

XC serve Cardiff Central with a daily train from Manchester.

Exactly. Manchester is on the blue line, not the orange line.

 

[SprinterMan]

All fixed now, I knew I had forgotten something :P

Adam

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Exactly. Manchester is on the blue line, not the orange line.

Ah right yes, sorry. Because the map was so big, I couldn't see that the orange line went up to Manchester without scrolling.

 

[thenorthern]

Very well done on the map.

The CrossCountry mainline was a brilliant idea, a mainline that doesn't end in London and providing a direct link between places such as Newcastle and Bristol.

 

[swt_passenger]

For consistency, why doesn't the Bournemouth/Reading to New St branch of the main network have two colours, like the other three parts of the main 'cross' network, i.e. ignoring the ex Central routes? What I mean is that Bournemouth to Manchester and Reading/Southampton to Newcastle should be in different colours?

(I think this applied to the original Virgin XC diagrams as well, could never quite work out why it looked odd. Maybe they just ran out of colours...)

 

[johnnychips]

That's really impressive.

Do no XC trains omit Gloucester?

 

[The Planner]

Only the Cardiff Nottingham's do Gloucester I thought apart from the one wacky Gloucester Stansted service which will need a dotted line.

 

[SprinterMan]

Very well done on the map.

That's really impressive.

Thank you very much

Do no XC trains omit Gloucester?

Only the Cardiff Nottingham's do Gloucester I thought apart from the one wacky Gloucester Stansted service which will need a dotted line.

Damnit! Map updated yet agin. Forgot to check Gloucester. All purple line trains and a very small number of orange line (Glasgow) trains do Gloucester, but alas no blue line (Manchester) trains. The Gloucester to Stansted train is the result of a purple line train being combined with a red line train and so does not need a line, similar to the train that does both Crewe and Stoke, or the train that does both Leeds and Doncatser :P

Adam

 

[Hyphen]

Hi Adam,

Was there scope in that old map for a 'station with limited service' type notation? If so, perhaps you could show Gloucester as such on the Orange line and the same with Lydney/Chepstow/Caldicot/STJ/Water Ortin on the Cardiff-Nottingham. I think it'd also apply with Tamworth/Burton and Chesterfield on the green line.

Secondly, you're still showing "Seven" Tunnel Junction - it should be Severn.

 

[Eagle]

(I think this applied to the original Virgin XC diagrams as well, could never quite work out why it looked odd. Maybe they just ran out of colours...)

There used to be a dark blue branch that way as well, for the Portsmouth/Brighton/Paddington services, which today are truncated as the Reading services.

Compare: Virgin network 2002 and Virgin network 2006.

(Also note that the colours they used for West Coast services are still the same today.)

 

[SprinterMan]

Hi Adam,

Was there scope in that old map for a 'station with limited service' type notation? If so, perhaps you could show Gloucester as such on the Orange line and the same with Lydney/Chepstow/Caldicot/STJ/Water Ortin on the Cardiff-Nottingham. I think it'd also apply with Tamworth/Burton and Chesterfield on the green line.

Secondly, you're still showing "Seven" Tunnel Junction - it should be Severn.

Map updated yet again :P

Adam

 

[SeanG]

That VT 2002 map is very complicated, especially around the NW

 

[thenorthern]

I always liked how with the old map there was no concept of limited stop as such it implies that they regularly stopped at Cross Gates and Hartford but in reality very few trains did.

 

[jopsuk]

SprinterMan, the current version of the map on this thread is only in unreadably-small.

I did always think it curious with that combined VWC/VXC map that they made VT1 the Penzance-Aberdeen route (and branches thereof), not one of the Pendolino services.

 

[Eagle]

I did always think it curious with that combined VWC/VXC map that they made VT1 the Penzance-Aberdeen route (and branches thereof), not one of the Pendolino services.

Well they weren't Pendolino services when they assigned the numbers (1999/2000 I believe). Also there was a VT0, Swindon to Birmingham.

 

[SeanG]

VT0 was 158 worked IIRC?

 

[tractakid]

It would be incredibly awesome if you managed to include every single XC stop.

 

[dannypye9999]

I don't see much "cross" in cross country. Over the years we've lost trains serving

Tenby, Swansea, Eastbourne, Weymouth, Margate, Liverpool and most recently Brighton.
And Newquay trains will be withdrawn from next year.

 

[43074]

And Newquay trains will be withdrawn from next year.

Do you have a source for that? I was under the impression the Newquay service was fairly secure.

 

[SprinterMan]

SprinterMan, the current version of the map on this thread is only in unreadably-small.

I did always think it curious with that combined VWC/VXC map that they made VT1 the Penzance-Aberdeen route (and branches thereof), not one of the Pendolino services.

Should be full page, here is a link if it still doesn't work:
http://s18.postimg.org/59mscl521/New_Cross_Country_Route_Map.jpg

It would be incredibly awesome if you managed to include every single XC stop.

Map updated accordingly :P

I don't see much "cross" in cross country. Over the years we've lost trains serving

Tenby, Swansea, Eastbourne, Weymouth, Margate, Liverpool and most recently Brighton.
And Newquay trains will be withdrawn from next year.

Do you have a source for that? That is really bad news if true, poor tourists & poor Newquay

Adam

 

[ryan125hst]

Virgin network 2002

Does anyone know where I can find the timetable for this on the internet/ I've tried Wayback Machine, but Virgin Trains' website didn't seem to publish timetables then, strangely.

Alternatively, if you have a paper copy, if you would be able to summarise the service pattern. I'm intrigued how frequently places such as Brighton, Portsmouth and Paddington were served, and where from.

 

[dannypye9999]

Does anyone know where I can find the timetable for this on the internet/ I've tried Wayback Machine, but Virgin Trains' website didn't seem to publish timetables then, strangely.

Alternatively, if you have a paper copy, if you would be able to summarise the service pattern. I'm intrigued how frequently places such as Brighton, Portsmouth and Paddington were served, and where from.

2002 had a much better cross country service than today and it makes todays services look rather boring as they seem to follow the same pattern every hour.

As far as I remember Liverpool and Manchester both served Portsmouth and Gatwick in both directions. There was rarely a train that terminated at Reading.

There was a slower train Birmingham to Newcastle that would call at all the usual stops and wait for around 20 minutes at each stop.

Manchester had a Paignton holidaymaker service which would run non stop to Birmingham new street and behind that was a Stockport to Paignton which made up for Macclesfield, Stoke, Stafford and Wolverhampton stops which the Manchester train missed.

Most services that would terminate at Bristol T Meads today would either run non stop to Plymouth or run to Cardiff or Swansea. I think one of them was a Tenby service on summer Saturdays but that could of been before 2002...

 

[ainsworth74]

2002 had a much better cross country service than today and it makes todays services look rather boring as they seem to follow the same pattern every hour.

That's rather the point of the timetable...

Personally I don't really care if the timetable is 'boring' and whilst I do think that there are some stations that should still be on the XC map (Liverpool and probably Swansea for instance) I think that the current timetable is far superior to the old one.

Though if you're an enthusiast then sure I guess it's boring and the 2002 timetable was better.

 

[43074]

Does anyone know where I can find the timetable for this on the internet/ I've tried Wayback Machine, but Virgin Trains' website didn't seem to publish timetables then, strangely.

Alternatively, if you have a paper copy, if you would be able to summarise the service pattern. I'm intrigued how frequently places such as Brighton, Portsmouth and Paddington were served, and where from.

In summary, from September 2002 or Operation Princess as it was known:
Portsmouth was 2-hourly to Liverpool.
Brighton was 4 trains per day, to Manchester or Liverpool.
Paddington was 2 trains per day to Manchester.
Reading to Manchester was 2 hourly.
Liverpool was 2 hourly to Portsmouth, Reading or Brighton.
Cardiff was served 2 hourly to Edinburgh
Swansea was 1 train per day to/from Edinburgh, but left Cardiff with a four hour gap in it's service pattern so no more units were required.
Gloucester was served hourly by trains to the South West - the service to Plymouth went via Gloucester.
Blackpool was 2 hourly to Birmingham International
Dundee was 2 hourly to Bristol TM.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

You can get an idea from the Winter 2002 Diagrams:
Class 220
Class 221
HSTs