CrossCountry Banbury to Newcastle Service

[BanburyBlue]

Hi all,

I was just perusing the Realtime Trains website, when I noticed there is a daily service to and from Newcastle to Banbury.

11.33 1V85 from Birmingham New St to Banbury which arrives at 12.18. Which becomes the 12.28 1E40 to Newcastle, arriving 16.44.
10.35 1V87 from Newcastle to Banbury which arrives at 14.19. Which becomes the 14.30 1E48 to Birmingham, arriving 15.18.

Now I know that during Covid, XC simplified their timetable to South Coast/Reading to Manchester, and South West to North East only, so I was a bit surprised to see the above services. Having a Banbury to Newcastle and return service seems a little random. Why Banbury? Any thoughts?

And has the timetable simplification become the norm now, or will XC return to the pre-covid patterns?

Thanks.

 

[swt_passenger]

It’s run for a while. It’s about the only remaining part of the previous Southampton/Reading - Newcastle service, that is still almost completely absent in the upcoming timetable. So maybe they‘ve decided they just need the extra capacity at those particular times. Maybe it’s Banbury because there’s nowhere nearer New St to turn round between directions.

 

[Watershed]

It'll be because it's a convenient way of keeping route retention of the lines via Solihull and via Doncaster. Leamington is a pain to turn around at (only two through platforms, of which only the Up platform can be used to turn from the north) whereas Banbury has 4 bidirectional platforms (OK, platform 4 is too short for a double Voyager) and the paths neatly match up for a quick turnaround. The running to and from Newcastle will just be because that's where there is a set available, at Tyne Yard.

 

[lammergeier]

It'll be because it's a convenient way of keeping route retention of the lines via Solihull and via Doncaster. Leamington is a pain to turn around at (only two through platforms, of which only the Up platform can be used to turn from the north) whereas Banbury has 4 bidirectional platforms (OK, platform 4 is too short for a double Voyager) and the paths neatly match up for a quick turnaround. The running to and from Newcastle will just be because that's where there is a set available, at Tyne Yard.

That's correct. Different depots crew the service on different days in order to keep route knowledge up to date.

 

[dk1]

And has the timetable simplification become the norm now, or will XC return to the pre-covid patterns?

I would like to think they would but unfortunately XC have been one of if not the worst at milking Covid as an excuse. Who knows?

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

It’s run for a while. It’s about the only remaining part of the previous Southampton/Reading - Newcastle service, that is still almost completely absent in the upcoming timetable. So maybe they‘ve decided they just need the extra capacity at those particular times. Maybe it’s Banbury because there’s nowhere nearer New St to turn round between directions.

Why couldn't they run to and from Reading though? There's the paths and stock clearly!

 

[JonathanH]

Why couldn't they run to and from Reading though? There's the paths and stock clearly!

The turnaround at Banbury is only about 10 minutes so it can't get to Reading, and it appears the units involved work from Central Rivers before / after Birmingham.

 

[BanburyBlue]

And of course, we all know that Banbury is the centre of the Universe - LOL.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Now I know that during Covid, XC simplified their timetable to South Coast/Reading to Manchester, and South West to North East only, so I was a bit surprised to see the above services. Having a Banbury to Newcastle and return service seems a little random. Why Banbury? Any thoughts?

I'm a fairly regular user of the service - I live in Newcastle but go to uni in Oxford (fortunately my place down there isn't too far from the S4 route so I can just change to bus at Banbury). While it's not quite as convenient as the direct service, it still saves a change at either Birmingham New Street or the trek across London.

One thing I have noticed is very few people seem to use the service south of Birmingham. And of the few that do, almost all board at New Street - cross-Birmingham journeys seem to be absolutely negligible. I suppose the infrequent and obscure nature of the service, along with the fact both Leamington Spa and Banbury are relatively small destinations, means there's virtually no demand and the service is purely there for operational reasons.

 

[Magdalia]

11.33 1V85 from Birmingham New St to Banbury which arrives at 12.18. Which becomes the 12.28 1E40 to Newcastle, arriving 16.44.
10.35 1V87 from Newcastle to Banbury which arrives at 14.19. Which becomes the 14.30 1E48 to Birmingham, arriving 15.18.

I do like these from a nostalgic perspective. They feel like distant relatives of the York-Banbury and return DMUs via the Great Central that ran in the winters of 1959-60, 1960-61 and 1961-62.

 

[38Cto15E]

It was much simpler to travel between Banbury and Newcastle 50 years ago on the GCR.

 

[The Planner]

It was much simpler to travel between Banbury and Newcastle 50 years ago on the GCR.

Pre COVID, it was a direct train too, what was so different 50 years ago?

 

[DanNCL]

Should the deferred ECML timetable recast ever go ahead the odd Newcastle - Banbury trip will revert to being an hourly Newcastle - Reading service. At the same time under those proposals most South West - Scotland services will have a Northallerton call added

 

[Falcon1200]

It was much simpler to travel between Banbury and Newcastle 50 years ago on the GCR.

Pre-Covid there was an hourly service between Banbury and Newcastle, I don't think that was the case in the days of the GCR !

 

[ivorytoast28]

Should the deferred ECML timetable recast ever go ahead the odd Newcastle - Banbury trip will revert to being an hourly Newcastle - Reading service. At the same time under those proposals most South West - Scotland services will have a Northallerton call added

Will be interesting to see what happens as it doesn't look like XC have any intention of returning that via doncaster hourly service

 

[route101]

I'm a fairly regular user of the service - I live in Newcastle but go to uni in Oxford (fortunately my place down there isn't too far from the S4 route so I can just change to bus at Banbury). While it's not quite as convenient as the direct service, it still saves a change at either Birmingham New Street or the trek across London.

One thing I have noticed is very few people seem to use the service south of Birmingham. And of the few that do, almost all board at New Street - cross-Birmingham journeys seem to be absolutely negligible. I suppose the infrequent and obscure nature of the service, along with the fact both Leamington Spa and Banbury are relatively small destinations, means there's virtually no demand and the service is purely there for operational reasons.

Perhaps high cross country fares or not much demand for Banbury beyond Birmingham?

How frequent was the Newcastle service from Southampton?

 

[JonathanH]

Should the deferred ECML timetable recast ever go ahead the odd Newcastle - Banbury trip will revert to being an hourly Newcastle - Reading service. At the same time under those proposals most South West - Scotland services will have a Northallerton call added

Presumably the paths can be timetabled but don't have to actually run if CrossCountry and the DfT want to continue running 1tph.

Are there any links on the ECML that are lost if the Newcastle XC service doesn't run or is it flighted before / after something else that means it isn't really needed?

 

[dk1]

Perhaps high cross country fares or not much demand for Banbury beyond Birmingham?

How frequent was the Newcastle service from Southampton?

Hourly from Reading to Newcastle with bi-hourly extensions to Southampton Central.

 

[ivorytoast28]

Are there any links on the ECML that are lost if the Newcastle XC service doesn't run or is it flighted before / after something else that means it isn't really needed?

If nothing else going via Leeds adds 30 minutes to the journey for anyone from the north east heading to Sheffield/Derby/Birmingham etc. It also loses the connection at doncaster which can be useful for people in east riding of yorkshire/hull etc to connect across the country.

It was always completely packed and a pretty uncomfortable journey throughout whenever I've used it end to end

 

[DanNCL]

Presumably the paths can be timetabled but don't have to actually run if CrossCountry and the DfT want to continue running 1tph.

Are there any links on the ECML that are lost if the Newcastle XC service doesn't run or is it flighted before / after something else that means it isn't really needed?

Under the current ECML timetable in both directions it ran less than 10 minutes behind an LNER service between Doncaster and Newcastle making all of the same stops. If anything other than a 4 car unit turns up it also causes a headache as it needs a through platform at Newcastle station for nearly an hour - it never used to be an issue but since TPE started using 802s there’s now not the capacity for XC to terminate at a through platform. The best thing to do in my opinion would be to permanently cut it back to York.

 

[Peterthegreat]

It was much simpler to travel between Banbury and Newcastle 50 years ago on the GCR.

You'd have a job doing that in 1972!

 

[swt_passenger]

Perhaps high cross country fares or not much demand for Banbury beyond Birmingham?

How frequent was the Newcastle service from Southampton?

If people have got used to Banbury to Birmingham with XC being only hourly for the rest of the day I suspect that might reduce demand on the one train that’s an exception. But maybe it’s just the wrong time of day for people hoping to do end to end journeys? There’s also the Chiltern alternative as far as Birmingham.

 

[BanburyBlue]

If people have got used to Banbury to Birmingham with XC being only hourly for the rest of the day I suspect that might reduce demand on the one train that’s an exception. But maybe it’s just the wrong time of day for people hoping to do end to end journeys? There’s also the Chiltern alternative as far as Birmingham.

I think you’re right. Much more demand for Banbury to Birmingham (& beyond) in the mornings, and vice versa in the afternoon.

 

[stevetay3]

Will the Newcastle service ever return to Reading, I see also the cross country services are very sparse south of Reading, every two hours or so.

 

[Falcon1200]

Will the Newcastle service ever return to Reading, I see also the cross country services are very sparse south of Reading, every two hours or so.

I certainly hope so, but it presents XC with problems, not just the extra staff required but also because to provide sets the services currently running as 8, 9 or 10 car will have to revert to 4 or 5 !

 

[dk1]

I certainly hope so, but it presents XC with problems, not just the extra staff required but also because to provide sets the services currently running as 8, 9 or 10 car will have to revert to 4 or 5 !

4 or 5 will be absolutely fine if reverting to the proper half hourly timetable.

 

[Peterthegreat]

4 or 5 will be absolutely fine if reverting to the proper half hourly timetable.

Absolutely correct.

 

[dk1]

Cross Country & the DfT really are one of the worst returning to normality.

 

[Snow1964]

I certainly hope so, but it presents XC with problems, not just the extra staff required but also because to provide sets the services currently running as 8, 9 or 10 car will have to revert to 4 or 5 !

So is XC short of staff (unfilled vacancies), or is it still using covid as an excuse, even though no one in England is legally required to isolate since 1st April even if they have have symptoms

 

[Falcon1200]

4 or 5 will be absolutely fine if reverting to the proper half hourly timetable.

In theory yes, because overall the same number of coaches will be provided, however XC was not unknown for severe overcrowding on certain trains pre-Covid....