Cumbrian Coast Loco Hauled Stock

[70014IronDuke]

How many failures have there been in recent weeks? While one failure is really one too many on a line with as sparse a service as the Cumbrian Coast, unless a number have passed "under the radar" then this seems like the first time in a while that the issue has been raised on this forum.

From what I've seen - I keep half an eye on these trains on RTT - not many failures of late. (see post 1033 - late August was a horror period). At a guestimate, about 1 failure per 7 - 10 days. Of course, with the relatively intensive digaramming, this can easily, and usually does, impact on later services during the day. The killer is if one of the first two trains of the day (the 05.xx off Carlisle and Barrow) fail and cannot be returned to traffic quickly. If the 08.40 ex Carlisle is cancelled as a result, if really leaves a horrible gap in Carlisle/Workington/Whitehave connectivity to the coast southwards - although I don't know how many passengers normally wish to use this service.

 

[sprinterguy]

From what I've seen - I keep half an eye on these trains on RTT - not many failures of late. (see post 1033 - late August was a horror period). At a guestimate, about 1 failure per 7 - 10 days. Of course, with the relatively intensive digaramming, this can easily, and usually does, impact on later services during the day. The killer is if one of the first two trains of the day (the 05.xx off Carlisle and Barrow) fail and cannot be returned to traffic quickly. If the 08.40 ex Carlisle is cancelled as a result, if really leaves a horrible gap in Carlisle/Workington/Whitehave connectivity to the coast southwards - although I don't know how many passengers normally wish to use this service.

Thanks for that, it's useful to get a sense of what's going on "on the ground" over a period of time.

 

[yorkie]

Does anyone know if the loco hauled trains are expected to run as normal tomorrow?

 

[70014IronDuke]

Does anyone know if the loco hauled trains are expected to run as normal tomorrow?

Am afraid I don't know the answer to this (and it's probably too late anyway) - but there has been some poor performance levels in the past fortnight, affecting maybe 3 or 4 or 5 days of running. It's not been clear whether this was down to the Cl 37s, the stock or other problems (eg trackwork or signalling or whatever) - but after maybe two months of decent peformance, the LHCS trains must have been testing passenger patience again since approd October 12th.

 

[NORTHERNSOUL]

Can anybody tell me please what classes of DMU.s are passed for use on the Cumbrian Coast line and obviously mk2 carriages are but what others are ?

 

[a_c_skinner]

Pacers, 150, 153, 155, 156 are the only ones permitted the whole Cumbrian Coast if I read the sectional appendix correctly as (subject to the same proviso) Mk1,2 and unmodified Mk3 coaches.

 

[NORTHERNSOUL]

Yes sorry i should have said i meant the Barrow Carlisle section as i dont think the Lanc Barrow section is an issue

What about classes that havnt been cleared that maybe could be 170.s for example ?

 

[a_c_skinner]

It seems to be the Maryport - Carlisle section that is the problem, someone will doubtless be along who actually knows the answer. IIRC the Maryport and Carlisle railway was built to a more parsimonious loading gauge. Discussions about what is cleared where seem to often come down to the imponderable question as to if the stock would fit, but no one has cleared it, could be made to fit with trifling work or simply won't fit without a lot of civil engineering and people never seem to know which.

 

[NORTHERNSOUL]

Well yes youre right it is that section thats the problem and given the revenues i would think they need a solution that isnt going to cost much money and obviously if they managed that with a class thats already in the fleet it would help but maybe an out of the box solution like putting a unit in there to to the shorter journeys between Workington and Barrow or find enough 156.s to create the lines own mini fleet.

But what is for sure the locals want a definite plan as theyre fed up to the back teeth of the unreliability of the 37.s

 

[driver9000]

Pacers, 150, 153, 155, 156 are the only ones permitted the whole Cumbrian Coast if I read the sectional appendix correctly as (subject to the same proviso) Mk1,2 and unmodified Mk3 coaches.

150s aren't permitted Barrow to Carlisle as I recall. Workington and Barrow crews don't (or certainly didn't) sign them.

 

[uww11x]

150s aren't permitted Barrow to Carlisle as I recall. Workington and Barrow crews don't (or certainly didn't) sign them.

150's don't see use on the coast. The only '150' which has been down in recent times is 950001.

 

[a_c_skinner]

150s aren't permitted Barrow to Carlisle as I recall

Apologies, you are correct. The sectional appendix says "Prohibited between Maryport and Carlisle South Jn". They are a bit (4") wider than the 153/156 though the 158 (and some modern units) seems to me to be similar sized to the 153 which is permitted or (horror!) Wikipedia is wrong. There are no tunnels on the Maryport and Carlisle I think so surely this is surmountable?

Apologies we are drifting OT, from LHCS to how to replace it! As we are off topic how on earth did we get to this crazy situation of what is cleared for what route? I can guess that, but when can we expect to see something closer to universal?

 

[mpthomson]

Apologies, you are correct. The sectional appendix says "Prohibited between Maryport and Carlisle South Jn". They are a bit (4") wider than the 153/156 though the 158 (and some modern units) seems to me to be similar sized to the 153 which is permitted or (horror!) Wikipedia is wrong. There are no tunnels on the Maryport and Carlisle I think so surely this is surmountable?

Apologies we are drifting OT, from LHCS to how to replace it! As we are off topic how on earth did we get to this crazy situation of what is cleared for what route? I can guess that, but when can we expect to see something closer to universal?

I believe it's some of the bridges between Maryport and Carlisle that have very tight clearances, and the same reason that any droplight stock has to have window bars fitted or a staff member by each door/window to use this prt of the route.

 

[BigCj34]

What is the reason behind all these breakdowns? Are the Class 37's doing to many route miles before being examined for maintenance? Is the maintenance timetabling too infrequent? Though I do not have much knowledge about them or maintenance procedures, surely they have been in service on the line for long enough for the locomotives limitations be known and worked with accordingly.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I believe it's some of the bridges between Maryport and Carlisle that have very tight clearances, and the same reason that any droplight stock has to have window bars fitted or a staff member by each door/window to use this prt of the route.

Apologies, you are correct. The sectional appendix says "Prohibited between Maryport and Carlisle South Jn". They are a bit (4") wider than the 153/156 though the 158 (and some modern units) seems to me to be similar sized to the 153 which is permitted or (horror!) Wikipedia is wrong. There are no tunnels on the Maryport and Carlisle I think so surely this is surmountable?

Apologies we are drifting OT, from LHCS to how to replace it! As we are off topic how on earth did we get to this crazy situation of what is cleared for what route? I can guess that, but when can we expect to see something closer to universal?

I'm afraid it was NorthernSoul, who seems to be a new member, who initiated this up thread.

NorthernSoul - mate - welcome to the forum, but perhaps you could read the posting rules. You have raised an important topic, but it does not belong to this thread. And it could easily get buried in this thread, so I've transferred some of these posts and put them in a new thread under stations and infrastructure. That way, if anyone wants to find it again, it will be much easier.

Now - back to grunting, or perhaps silent - Cl 37s - their trials and tribulations on the Cumbrian Coast, if we may.

 

[70014IronDuke]

What is the reason behind all these breakdowns? Are the Class 37's doing to many route miles before being examined for maintenance? Is the maintenance timetabling too infrequent? Though I do not have much knowledge about them or maintenance procedures, surely they have been in service on the line for long enough for the locomotives limitations be known and worked with accordingly.

You might well think so I don't know what the issues are today, perhaps others can comment.
But Cl 37s used to be - with Cl 20s - the most reliable locos in the BR fleet back in the day. There was a sort of bias, because many didn't have steam heat boilers - the source of many failures on diesel locos.
But on the Cumbrian Coast, they are used quite intensively on these trains - start, power on - off and stop every 3-4-5 miles or so. It is tough work. And then you've got the coaching stock, with all the old air-con gubbins that can go wrong too.
Like you, back in 1970-71, BR thought that they could do a few mods on the Cl 27s and top and tail six Mk IIs and run a reliable, intensive, high-speed (for the distance) shuttle service between Glasgow and Edinburgh. They'd had the locos for 8-10 years, what could go wrong?
It didn't work out that way - I mean the reliability bit - at least in the early days. Intensive working reaches the bugs you never thought you'd bug

EDIT ps - look up the Cl 27 thread for a good read, with some lovely anecdotes.

 

[yorksrob]

Have the 37's been operating as usual yesterday ? I didn't see/hear them at Lancaster.

 

[47802]

Have the 37's been operating as usual yesterday ? I didn't see/hear them at Lancaster.

Failed at Carlisle 153 substituted

 

[yorksrob]

Failed at Carlisle 153 substituted

Oh, I did see a couple of those. Cosy !

 

[47802]

Oh, I did see a couple of those. Cosy !

Maybe although by the time all the Enthusiasts/Bashers etc have bailed it might not have been too bad.

 

[yorksrob]

Maybe although by the time all the Enthusiasts/Bashers etc have bailed it might not have been too bad.

I've done all the way round on a 153 before - it wasn't a particularly comfortable experience.

 

[childwallblues]

I've done all the way round on a 153 before - it wasn't a particularly comfortable experience.

37403 was on 1004 Preston to Barrow today.

 

[Cletus]

Losing track of which 37's are working.

Is there a pool of locos in use? I think I've seen 37401, 37402. 37403, 37422, 37423, 37558 recently.

 

[47802]

Losing track of which 37's are working.

Is there a pool of locos in use? I think I've seen 37401, 37402. 37403, 37422, 37423, 37558 recently.

558 is really 424

 

[70014IronDuke]

Bit of a disaster so far this week. Not sure if it's all down to the Cl 37s mind - maybe snow affected services yesterday - which were shambolic. But today looks worse. The first up train out of Carlisle appears to have failed at St Bees and sat there for 90 mins.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y50533/2017/12/12/advanced
Caped at Sellafield 2 mins short of 2.5 hours late.
Seems to have held up the following train, 06.46 Maryport - Barrow arrived 108 late.
Meanwhile, in tother direction, 09.20 ex Barrow - Carlisle caped to boot.
Taxi drivers must be making a fortune?

 

[trentside]

I really want to do the loco hauled trips at some point but the reality of day to day operations seems terrifying. Looks like a hotel job rather than there and back in a day!

 

[sprinterguy]

I really want to do the loco hauled trips at some point but the reality of day to day operations seems terrifying. Looks like a hotel job rather than there and back in a day!

I've made multiple journeys on them on multiple occasions and have had no problems at all: Before today, cancellations due to loco failures have appeared to be decreasing for some time as well. Though luck of the draw, I suppose.

 

[trentside]

I've made multiple journeys on them on multiple occasions and have had no problems at all: Before today, cancellations due to loco failures have appeared to be decreasing for some time as well. Though luck of the draw, I suppose.

Thanks for the reassurance. I’m sure the temperatures today haven’t helped matters.

 

[hassaanhc]

I managed a day trip from London (!) back in March 2016. That day the 1004 from Preston to Barrow was on time, but the connecting 1138 to Carlisle departed about 20 minutes late after a delay on the previous trip. Luckily it gained time during the route to arrive about 8 minutes late at Carlisle, otherwise I'd have missed my connecting train back to London

 

[driver9000]

Third day in a row this week 2C32 has failed to make it to Preston without falling apart. It didn't even leave Carlisle this morning!