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Cumbrian Coast (Maryport & Carlisle) Restrictions on stock

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70014IronDuke

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I'm starting a new thread on this as it is important stuff (IMO) - but it has been posted on the LHCS thread here
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/cumbrian-coast-lhcs.110539/page-36#post-3177283
and is likely to get lost.

It seems to be the Maryport - Carlisle section that is the problem, someone will doubtless be along who actually knows the answer. IIRC the Maryport and Carlisle railway was built to a more parsimonious loading gauge. Discussions about what is cleared where seem to often come down to the imponderable question as to if the stock would fit, but no one has cleared it, could be made to fit with trifling work or simply won't fit without a lot of civil engineering and people never seem to know which.

I believe it's some of the bridges between Maryport and Carlisle that have very tight clearances, and the same reason that any droplight stock has to have window bars fitted or a staff member by each door/window to use this prt of the route.

Apologies, you are correct. The sectional appendix says "Prohibited between Maryport and Carlisle South Jn". They are a bit (4") wider than the 153/156 though the 158 (and some modern units) seems to me to be similar sized to the 153 which is permitted or (horror!) Wikipedia is wrong. There are no tunnels on the Maryport and Carlisle I think so surely this is surmountable?

Apologies we are drifting OT, from LHCS to how to replace it! As we are off topic how on earth did we get to this crazy situation of what is cleared for what route? I can guess that, but when can we expect to see something closer to universal?


I believe it's some of the bridges between Maryport and Carlisle that have very tight clearances, and the same reason that any droplight stock has to have window bars fitted or a staff member by each door/window to use this prt of the route.
 
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snowball

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I realise Cumbria isn't in Scotland, but the Scottish HLOS for CP6 calls on Network Rail to tidy up the mess over which stock is cleared for which routes.

6.3 Since the devolution of rail powers in 2005, the Scottish Government has fully funded Network Rail to establish and maintain an accurate asset database, including gauge data. The Scottish Government has also fully funded the maintenance of asset capability, including gauge clearances. The current approach to gauging processes has not been satisfactory, adding significant risk, delay and cost to the introduction of new rolling stock, the reallocation of existing rolling stock, the development of new rail freight business, and the efficient operation of charter and tourist trains. Passenger and freight train operators should be able to plan the movement of vehicles around the network without the need for expensive and time consuming bespoke gauging exercises.

6.4 Therefore, the Scottish Ministers require that, by the end of Control Period 6, all Scottish routes are maintained to be capable of accommodating the gauge of all locomotives and passenger rolling stock, including cross border services and charter operators vehicles, which have run in Scotland in CP4 and CP5 or are known to be planned to run in Scotland in CP6.
 

a_c_skinner

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Not 150s. I misread the SA, but there are some DMUs not cleared that look to me the same size as Mk3s.

AS
 

a_c_skinner

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Thinking on this, does anyone know where the pinch points are? This isn't a busy line. Ore to Ashford was dealt with by selective singling, though there are a lot of overbridges. Maryport functions as a single track station.
 

Kite159

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Thinking on this, does anyone know where the pinch points are? This isn't a busy line. Ore to Ashford was dealt with by selective singling, though there are a lot of overbridges. Maryport functions as a single track station.

Similarly those narrow tunnels on the Hastings Line were dealt with by singling the line at those points to allow standard sized stock to run on the line.

Single the track at the pinch points, after all the Cumbrian coast isn't the busiest line with a rough hourly service.
 

Joseph_Locke

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The M&C was built on the cheap and has very narrow "sixfoots" - so narrow that Carlisle Pway office had a photo taken (at Wigton?) of three pway bogies; one on each line and one across the sixfoot; when trains had windows that opened properly there were restrictions on allowing trains to pass.

When it was on my "patch" we did a lot of (Hallade) work to try and improve things but the bridge holes are too small to get anywhere near normality. It used to be a lot busier when BSC Workington was churning out rail, but if you were going to be consistent you'd have to single so much of it you might as well do it all.
 

a_c_skinner

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I did wonder about that, I looked at a 1:50000 map and there are a good number of bridges spread out pretty evenly and I suspect few if any are new bridges - hence wider. OTOH if Mk3s "fit" then perhaps it would be fairly simple to clear it for more DMUs? It seems crazy that we cannot have a fleet of trains that can basically go over the whole network.
 

yorksrob

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Thinking on this, does anyone know where the pinch points are? This isn't a busy line. Ore to Ashford was dealt with by selective singling, though there are a lot of overbridges. Maryport functions as a single track station.

That is actually Tonbridge to St Leonards that has single track sections due to limited clearances. Ore to Appledore was singled as a cost cutting exercise.
 

a_c_skinner

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Thank you. Now you mention it some old stock had "not to work between..." restrictions painted on it.
 
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Single the track at the pinch points, after all the Cumbrian coast isn't the busiest line with a rough hourly service.

Coast Line will get an improved service, including better Sunday, in near future.

Also, when the mine near Whitehaven opens in 2018/19, there’s extra freight due (4 a day, each direction).

Add in if the proposed new Nuclear facilities get sorted in the Sellafield area, there could be an increase again.
 

Lemmy99uk

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Coast Line will get an improved service, including better Sunday, in near future.

Also, when the mine near Whitehaven opens in 2018/19, there’s extra freight due (4 a day, each direction).

Add in if the proposed new Nuclear facilities get sorted in the Sellafield area, there could be an increase again.


Peak coal production will be 7 loaded/7 empties per day.
 
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