Cut-off times at ticket machines

[vinnym70]

Does anyone happen to know how cut-off times work on station ticket machines?
I've recently invested in a Network Railcard, but on the two occasions I've attempted to use the ticket machine, the Network Railcard is greyed out even though it would be valid on the next train to depart (I'm assuming it's time restriction thing?)
When the ticket office has been open, walking straight from the ticket machine that has refused to play ball, to the window and I've been sold what I want without being asked to provide my railcard.
So, the first train I can use a Network Railcard on is the 1000 service. What time should a ticket machine allow the sale of such a ticket?

 

[jfollows]

So, the first train I can use a Network Railcard on is the 1000 service. What time should a ticket machine allow the sale of such a ticket?

The right answer is 00:01, it's not about when you buy the ticket but when you use the ticket.

 

[johncrossley]

Does anyone happen to know how cut-off times work on station ticket machines?
I've recently invested in a Network Railcard, but on the two occasions I've attempted to use the ticket machine, the Network Railcard is greyed out even though it would be valid on the next train to depart (I'm assuming it's time restriction thing?)
When the ticket office has been open, walking straight from the ticket machine that has refused to play ball, to the window and I've been sold what I want without being asked to provide my railcard.
So, the first train I can use a Network Railcard on is the 1000 service. What time should a ticket machine allow the sale of such a ticket?

I can't answer the question, but the obvious solution is to buy online. Either get an e-ticket or collect from the machine. Then you can buy the ticket anytime and not have to wait until 10 o'clock.

 

[jfollows]

I can't answer the question, but the obvious solution is to buy online. Either get an e-ticket or collect from the machine. Then you can buy the ticket anytime and not have to wait until 10 o'clock.

This is a more helpful answer than mine was; someone else on this forum may know what time restrictions are implemented in the machine you're using but whatever the restriction is it's silly and unnecessary, however my moaning isn't going to change anything or help you. As johncrossley says you may be able to stand next to the machine, buy the ticket you want online when you want to buy it, and then use the machine to collect your pre-ordered ticket, all without any time restrictions. It's just that this process is more cumbersome than buying the same ticket directly from the machine when it won't allow it.

EDIT And although the ticket office could require you to show your railcard, in practice you're not asked for it at purchase time as you say. And even if you are required to show your railcard, it's very unlikely to be for time reasons, it's just a verification check that you have one.

 

[vinnym70]

Understood on all points, thanks both. I'm generally anti e-tickets just in case I have a flat phone battery later in the day.
My local TOC (Greater Anglia) seem only to offer e-tickets via email or smartcard options.

Generally my plans at the moment are too fluid to book in advance and it's far from unusual to find the local station ticket machine out of service. Of course, there's only one machine and a variably open ticket office, both of which can get busy just before the hourly train.

 

[Birmingham]

Some ticket machines allow you to buy tickets for a future date/time. This allows you to choose a ticket as if it was that time, with the available ticket types (e.g. Off-Peak Day Return) and railcard discounted tickets for that time. This is done by choosing this option at the first screen on the ticket machine, where you then specify the appropriate date/time.

This seems like the best solution to this problem (for the TOCs to implement, obviously, not as customers). Depending on the type of ticket machine used by the TOC, this may just be switching this option on in their configuration of their ticket machines.

 

[Bensonby]

Strictly speaking, would you be entitled to board the train without a ticket, buying at the first opportunity, as the ticket you wanted wasn’t available? Obviously this would only be if the train was at something like 1002/1003 and not 1020 for example.

 

[vinnym70]

Strictly speaking, would you be entitled to board the train without a ticket, buying at the first opportunity, as the ticket you wanted wasn’t available? Obviously this would only be if the train was at something like 1002/1003 and not 1020 for example.

I've seen this go either way. It's a penalty fares area. But with a train and hour and an inevitable rush of people turning up, wanting to travel, some end up on the train without a ticket.
If you meet a ticket inspector, it seems 50/50 whether they accept the excuses and take the fare OR go straight to penalty fares.
If I ever end up boarding without a ticket, I've made sure I have at least a photo of the the ticket machine failing to play ball and/or the closed ticket office (and I'm not one who fails the 'attitude test')

 

[Watershed]

Strictly speaking, would you be entitled to board the train without a ticket, buying at the first opportunity, as the ticket you wanted wasn’t available? Obviously this would only be if the train was at something like 1002/1003 and not 1020 for example.

For the purposes of Byelaw 18 - it depends on your interpretation of 18(3)(i), and whether the inability of the ticket machine to issue the correct discounted ticket means that there were:

no facilities in working order for the issue or validation of any ticket

The Penalty Fares Regulations use the term "facilities in operation" and this rather more closely, but still do not deal with this particular scenario.

 

[infobleep]

At Guildford, one cannot buy a ticket from the machine using a discounted rail card before the rail card is valid for that day.

However, you can buy tickets not valid at the time you purchase them from the TMV. For example, one could but an evening out a return from a TMV before 10 am, even though not valid then but you couldn't buy it with a network rail card discount before 10 am.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Manchester Metrolink ticket vending machines don't allow you to purchase Off Peak tickets before 09:30:00 during the week which can be a nuisance if there's a tram due to arrive at your starting location shortly thereafter.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Anytime you like with LNER

 

[Starmill]

Manchester Metrolink ticket vending machines don't allow you to purchase Off Peak tickets before 09:30:00 during the week which can be a nuisance if there's a tram due to arrive at your starting location shortly thereafter.

It's really not an issue at all now you can just touch in.

 

[infobleep]

Anytime you like with LNER

That is good to hear.

 

[Par]

It's really not an issue at all now you can just touch in.

Touching in is an option but sub-optimal to the one day Travelcards that were hitherto available through the “Get Me There“ app.

I understand the thinking with doing away with those Travelcards, but in doing so, have disadvantaged honest passengers.

 

[jfollows]

Manchester Metrolink ticket vending machines don't allow you to purchase Off Peak tickets before 09:30:00 during the week which can be a nuisance if there's a tram due to arrive at your starting location shortly thereafter.

Oh yes, it has always been that way, and it's a pain .... I used to live in Manchester and work in Sale so I'd either drive to work at 8am or I'd wait until 9:30 and take the tram, and fortunately it was (then) only a couple of buttons to press repeatedly until the machine decided it was 9:30.

 

[Huntergreed]

I can't answer the question, but the obvious solution is to buy online. Either get an e-ticket or collect from the machine. Then you can buy the ticket anytime and not have to wait until 10 o'clock.

An annoying aspect of (certainly Scotrail) TVM’s is that they do not allow the purchase of an off-peak ticket until such a ticket is valid in the morning peak (not sure about the evening peak).

Makes it difficult to get an off-peak ticket for a train timed to depart at 09:02 when the cutoff is 9am!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It's really not an issue at all now you can just touch in.

How do you make sure, when using a card reader, at or around 09:30:00, that the system has already just switched over to "off peak", otherwise there must surely be a possibility that it deems that you have touched in within "peak hours" (which could well mean that higher fare is due)?

 

[Par]

None

How do you make sure, when using a card reader, at or around 09:30:00, that the system has already just switched over to "off peak", otherwise there must surely be a possibility that it deems that you have touched in within "peak hours" (which could well mean that higher fare is due)?

None of which was a problem when you could purchase the One Day Travelcard on the app before 9.30 and it automatically activated at 9.30. It’s really irked me TfGM doing away with those.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

None of which was a problem when you could purchase the One Day Travelcard on the app before 9.30 and it automatically activated at 9.30. It’s really irked me TfGM doing away with those.

Too many folk already onboard not buying tickets until they saw the inspectors getting on?

 

[Par]

Too many folk already onboard not buying tickets until they saw the inspectors getting on?

Yep, that was the rationale, but disadvantaging honest passengers in the process.

The One Day Travelcard had the advantage of being able to purchase it at leisure before even leaving home (often bought it whilst still in bed with my morning cuppa) It activated automatically at 9.30, so no need to get involved with card readers or ticket machines at the tram stop. You could literally just run up the platform and board as a tram approached.

This isn’t my biggest gripe with the discontinuation though. For work, Mrs Par buys a weekly Zone 4 only Travelcard (still available in the app) but now when making leisure journeys into other zones (central Manchester for example) she now needs to buy a Zones 1-4 from the machine (or tap in) when previously she would just have bought a supplementary Zones 1-3 via the app To use in conjunction with her weekly.

Honest punters being penalised.

 

[Starmill]

How do you make sure, when using a card reader, at or around 09:30:00, that the system has already just switched over to "off peak", otherwise there must surely be a possibility that it deems that you have touched in within "peak hours" (which could well mean that higher fare is due)?

You could always try looking at the clock?

Quite what the problem is here is very difficult to understand.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Quite what the problem is here is very difficult to understand.

Difference between paying £4.90 or £7.10 for an all zones travelcard by touching in a few seconds too early?

 

[James H]

TfL has a few minutes' leeway in favour of the customer at the start and end of peak periods to avoid disputes over clock accuracy.

Does Greater Manchester not have similar, or could such a provision be considered?

 

[jfollows]

TfL has a few minutes' leeway in favour of the customer at the start and end of peak periods to avoid disputes over clock accuracy.

Does Greater Manchester not have similar, or could such a provision be considered?

For TfL, see "Grace" period for peak travel? Five minutes at the start and three minutes at the end, according to that thread.

 

[Starmill]

Difference between paying £4.90 or £7.10 for an all zones travelcard by touching in a few seconds too early?

Simply do not touch in a few seconds too early which you can easily do by looking at the clock.

 

[XAM2175]

Difference between paying £4.90 or £7.10 for an all zones travelcard by touching in a few seconds too early?

Simply do not touch in a few seconds too early which you can easily do by looking at the clock.

Do the validator displays not show the time?

 

[Starmill]

Do the validator displays not show the time?

They do.