DB "Timetable change - connection no longer available" - Sparpreis ticket rules in this scenario?

[BRX]

I have a journey booked with DB, from Switzerland to Brussels. My itinerary involves an overnight stop in Basel. It's on a single Sparpreis ticket.

I've had a notification from DB that a timetable change means one of my connections is no longer available. Unhelpfully, it doesn't tell me *which* connection but a bit of detective work suggests it's the leg from Basel to Cologne. I can see that there's another option that lets me leave Basel at about the same time and arrive in Brussels at the same time - it just means changing in Frankfurt instead of Cologne.

The DB system invites me to search for an alternative connection, and takes me to a page where a number of alternative itineraries are offered. However, it doesn't understand that my original itinerary included the overnight stop in Basel, so none of these alternatives are any good to me - they have me travelling overnight.

Does anyone know, do I actually need to choose an alternative itinerary or will I be OK just to get on a different train on the day? As per the screenshot below, it tells me "you can now use your ticket for other trains". Am I going to have a problem getting on DB trains that aren't the ones listed on my Sparpreis ticket, or do I simply need to explain that the train on my ticket no longer exists?

 

[rg177]

It's a standard policy in Germany that if your train is delayed by more than 25 (?) minutes or is cancelled, your Sparpreis or Supersparpreis ticket essentially becomes a flexible one and you can take a connection of your choosing instead.

I've done this before and it wasn't questioned by staff on board the train I chose instead.

 

[BRX]

It's a standard policy in Germany that if your train is delayed by more than 25 (?) minutes or is cancelled, your Sparpreis or Supersparpreis ticket essentially becomes a flexible one and you can take a connection of your choosing instead.

I've done this before and it wasn't questioned by staff on board the train I chose instead.

Thanks. So I can take any train that follows the same route? Do you know if it basically means any time on that day?

 

[rvdborgt]

So I can take any train that follows the same route? Do you know if it basically means any time on that day?, which is almost all of them

Basically any connection that the DB planner suggests, provided it's with the same operators (which in Germany means any operator using the 1080 carrier code, which is almost all of them).
But the first step is to check what is actually happening. Such mails are also sent out for the tiniest of changes.

 

[k-c-p]

It's a standard policy in Germany that if your train is delayed by more than 25 (?) minutes or is cancelled, your Sparpreis or Supersparpreis ticket essentially becomes a flexible one and you can take a connection of your choosing instead.

Almost correct Rule in Germany :An expected delay of 20min and your ticket is not tied to any particular train, but becomes.a flex instead.

In Germany you might also take a different route in this case. For instance in ICE via the Highspeed line to Cologne instead of an originally planned IC along the Rhine.

In Switzerland on the other hand you have to stick to trains running on the intended route. Swiss train staff takes this seriously (iirc this is due to the fact that operators than SBB might involved.in your journey and receive money.

 

[rvdborgt]

In Germany you might also take a different route in this case. For instance in ICE via the Highspeed line to Cologne instead of an originally planned IC along the Rhine.

In Switzerland on the other hand you have to stick to trains running on the intended route. Swiss train staff takes this seriously (iirc this is due to the fact that operators than SBB might involved.in your journey and receive money.

Also in Switzerland, when the expected delay at your destination is at least 60 minutes, you can take another route if it's faster, at least when you're making an international journey. This follows from EU Regulation 2021/782 that Switzerland also applies for international journeys. SBB have confirmed this. Also, most (if not all) operators in Switzerland use carrier code 1185 on international tickets, so for international passengers they're all the same.

 

[BRX]

Below is the text on my ticket.

The journey from Gstaad to Basel happens on day one of two, and Basel to Brussels on day two.

The two named "zugbindung" trains are the ones between Basel and Brussels (and it's one of these that has been retimed).

My itinerary shows specific trains between Gstaad & Brussels. Am I right to understand I can actually take any trains on the same day, for that part of the journey, or would that be risky?


***

Gstaad - Bruxelles-Midi
Zugbindung:
ICE 106, 13:13 Uhr am 15.02.2025
ICE 12, 17:42 Uhr am 15.02.2025
Via: <1185>Zweisimmen*Spiez*Bern*Olten*BAS<1080>OG*KA*(MZ/MA*DA*F)*LM*K*AC*Aachen Süd(Gr)*Liege-Guillemins*Bruxelles-Nord

 

[rvdborgt]

Below is the text on my ticket.

The journey from Gstaad to Basel happens on day one of two, and Basel to Brussels on day two.

The two named "zugbindung" trains are the ones between Basel and Brussels (and it's one of these that has been retimed).

My itinerary shows specific trains between Gstaad & Brussels. Am I right to understand I can actually take any trains on the same day, for that part of the journey, or would that be risky?


***

Gstaad - Bruxelles-Midi
Zugbindung:
ICE 106, 13:13 Uhr am 15.02.2025
ICE 12, 17:42 Uhr am 15.02.2025
Via: <1185>Zweisimmen*Spiez*Bern*Olten*BAS<1080>OG*KA*(MZ/MA*DA*F)*LM*K*AC*Aachen Süd(Gr)*Liege-Guillemins*Bruxelles-Nord

ICE 106 does not run between Basel and Karlsruhe on that day. You can use ICE 72 at 13:06 instead and change to the 106 in Karlsruhe or Mannheim.
You could theoretically turn up for the 13:13 after having missed the 13:06 and then use later trains. Or use any train that day; I doubt any DB staff would say much, or if they do, you can just say "ICE 106 was cancelled".

 

[BRX]

ICE 106 does not run between Basel and Karlsruhe on that day. You can use ICE 72 at 13:06 instead and change to the 106 in Karlsruhe or Mannheim.
You could theoretically turn up for the 13:13 after having missed the 13:06 and then use later trains. Or use any train that day; I doubt any DB staff would say much, or if they do, you can just say "ICE 106 was cancelled".

Understood, thanks - but my question is about the trains within switzerland before I get to Basel.

 

[rvdborgt]

Understood, thanks - but my question is about the trains within switzerland before I get to Basel.

Your ticket does not mention Zugbindung for those trains. You're free to use any trains on that route within the validity period to reach your trains with Zugbinding.

 

[BRX]

Your ticket does not mention Zugbindung for those trains. You're free to use any trains on that route within the validity period to reach your trains with Zugbinding.

Ok, thank you.
And I'll be ok even if I use trains that are designated EC etc, as long as I stick to the route?

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Yes, on your itinerary none of the trains in Switzerland are 'binding', so you can take any as far as Basel. Be sure to check the ticket validity date to make sure it permits travel over 2 days.

 

[BRX]

Yes, on your itinerary none of the trains in Switzerland are 'binding', so you can take any as far as Basel. Be sure to check the ticket validity date to make sure it permits travel over 2 days.

Yes, the validity is for both days. I guess this means I could actually do the swiss part on either day 1 or day 2 if I wanted.

 

[k-c-p]

Yes, on your itinerary none of the trains in Switzerland are 'binding', so you can take any as far as Basel.

In general, this is not correct: DB-issued saver through-tickets ("Sparpreis" etc.) bind you to the trains listed on the ticket in Switzerland as well, even if the "zugbindung" only lists the German trains.

Quoting from the DBs Special International Conditions of Carriage ("Besondere Internationale Beförderungsbedingungen") (can be found here - in German only)

Section A Chapters 5.2.3 and 5.2.4:

Für eine Fahrkarte „Super Sparpreis Europa“ gilt auf DB STRECKEN die ZUGBINDUNG.
Erweiterungen auf Strecken im Ausland und sonstige Abweichungen sind ggf. in den Länderkapiteln im Teil B genannt.

Translation: For "(Super) Sparpreis Europa" the Zugbindung only applies to routes in Germany. Expansions of the Zugbindung on international routes may be listed in country-specific sections in section B (of the Conditions of Carriage)".

Section B, Chapter 16.10

Abweichend zu Teil A - Nr. ... gilt die Zugbindung auch in der Schweiz, auch bei Nutzung der ÖBB-Transitstrecke Lindau – St. Margrethen.
Alle auf der Fahrkarte angegebenen Züge sind zu nutzen.

Translation: In deviation from Section A Nr ... the Zugbinding applies in Switzerland and on the ÖBB-transit route Lindau – St. Margrethen. All trains listed on the ticket must be used.

One could argue that it is not very customer friendly to hide this detail deep in some document instead of indicating the international zugbindung more clearly on the ticket as well. But: That is the way it is.

As the OP dealt with a train cancellation, this might not be an issue in this case and the Swiss train staff is likely to be lenient. But in general, they take this pretty seriously and will ask why, when you are not using the train listed on your ticket.

 

[rvdborgt]

Translation: In deviation from Section A Nr ... the Zugbinding applies in Switzerland and on the ÖBB-transit route Lindau – St. Margrethen. All trains listed on the ticket must be used.

One could argue that it is not very customer friendly to hide this detail deep in some document instead of indicating the international zugbindung more clearly on the ticket as well. But: That is the way it is.

Based on the information we have seen, none of the Swiss trains are listed on the ticket (the timetable is not part of the ticket). Hence no Zugbindung in Switzerland. That may be a bug (I wouldn't be surprised) but that doesn't matter.
In addition, unexpected and unusual conditions must be clearly indicated before concluding the contract. Hiding them deep in terms and conditions doesn't count as such. When booking a (Super)Sparpreis on the DB website, all you see is "You can use all trains indicated on your ticket". If only the trains in Germany are indicated on the ticket, then Zugbindung in Switzerland is very much unexpected.

 

[BRX]

None of the Swiss trains were listed on my ticket. I wonder if that bit is intended to apply to itineraries where a (Zugbindung) DB train continues within Switzerland?

On the day, I travelled on a series of Swiss trains that were an hour later than the ones listed on my itinerary. None of the 3 tickets inspectors (each from a different train company) batted an eyelid when they checked my ticket.

The DB cancellation wasn't really relevant during the Swiss part of the journey because there was an overnight stop in between.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Yes, in general any Zugbindung is shown on the ticket itself. DB will normally also issue pax a timetable of the journey that was selected (ie. DB requires an itinerary to be created for long distance travel before issuing a ticket) but my understanding is that this is for information only unless there is a Zugbindung requirement on part or all of it.

Sometimes the Zugbindung would include travel in Switzerland, ie. an ICE train that originates there and goes to Germany, which is presumably what the 'Exception' that k-c-p above is referring to. In this case, I would expect this to be marked on the ticket. Since the itinerary here involved a stopover in Basel, the compulsory section applied only from there.

Anyway, BRX, you got through Germany it seems without major problems and that, in itself in present circumstances, is a great achievement!

 

[BRX]

Anyway, BRX, you got through Germany it seems without major problems and that, in itself in present circumstances, is a great achievement!

Well... my originally planned train started short from Mannheim instead of Basel but plan B only resulted in having to leave Basel 10 mins earlier. The train I got instead picked up a delay of about 20 mins meaning I needed to change plan B to plan C with an additional change of trains. The second train I got onto also had a delay, but not enough to miss my originally planned ICE to Brussels, and we got to Brussels only 5-10 minutes late, and I got my Eurostar fine.

On my outward journey, 2 out of my 3 DB trains were delayed, but not enough for any catastrophic consequences.

As we all know, DB is currently in a chronic state of disruption worse than UK rail, but I have to say the DB Navigator app, on-train announcements and station platform displays all coped pretty well with constantly changing times, and I think this provision of information made it easier and faster for me to make last minute changes to my plans than is the case in the UK.

 

[rvdborgt]

Sometimes the Zugbindung would include travel in Switzerland, ie. an ICE train that originates there and goes to Germany, which is presumably what the 'Exception' that k-c-p above is referring to. In this case, I would expect this to be marked on the ticket. Since the itinerary here involved a stopover in Basel, the compulsory section applied only from there.

Zugbindung is supposed to be in force on all domestic Swiss long-distance trains, e.g. IC, IR etc. But I've seen more DB (Super)Sparpreis tickets over the past year or so that did not have that anymore. I'm not sure at all this is related to the stopover in Basel. I rather suspect it's a bug.

 

[BRX]

Yup, my SParpreis Europa ticket itinerary put me on an IC between Bern & Basel but appeared not to apply any "Zugbindung" to it.

On my outward journey, the itinerary had me on an ICE from Mannheim through to Spiez and this did have a "Zugbindung" which presumably meant that I could not have used an alternative train between Basel and Spiez (I wonder if it would have been picked up if I'd done that though).