Delay repay ping pong between Transport for Wales and GWR

[sbf kent]

I couple of Fridays ago I travelled from Fishguard Harbour to Tonbridge Wells.

In short, the journey was delayed by over 2 1/2 hours in total. Over 60 minutes with Transport for Wales (broken down freight train outside Swansea). The subsequent train from GWR was delayed outside Didcot, another freight train breakdown and was then terminated at Reading (meaning a transfer). That transferred train was then late into Paddington. South Eastern were on time!

I applied to GWR, who I bought the ticket from, direct, online - but reading the text I applied to Transport for Wales as the cause of the initial delay.

TfW passed me to GWR, who have then passed me back to Transport for Wales. From a customer perspective, this just look like avoiding paying, which is in effect defrauding me as a customer?

Who do I appeal to about this ping pong, please, as I am not going to keep going from one to the other.

 

[AlterEgo]

TfW are responsible, so the claim is now with the correct company. You may want to send them an email or call them to ensure it is processed properly.

 

[Watershed]

Train companies aren't in the business of deliberately defrauding customers, even if some of their practices may make it feel that way at times.

In this case, you were right to apply for Delay Repay with TfW - for Delay Repay claims, you always claim with they are the train company that first caused you to become delayed.

Unfortunately some Delay Repay systems can't handle claims very well if they involve multiple TOCs and multiple delays. The impression given again seems to be one of trying to play 'pass the parcel', but ultimately it is just bad programming (or possibly good programming but to a faulty set of business rules).

 

[Belperpete]

I have had similar happen to me. In my case, I appealed the first TOC's decision to refer the claim on as soon as they did it, rather than just wait for the second TOC to sit on it and then refer it back.

 

[MrJeeves]

In this case, you were right to apply for Delay Repay with TfW

Well, OP applied to GWR first (or is the wording unclear in the first post?), but the claim now sits with TfW (for the second time).

I applied to GWR, who I bought the ticket from, direct, on line - but reading the text I applied to Transport for Wales as the cause of the initial delay.

I assume that should be "I first looked to claim from GWR" or something similar instead. My bad.

 

[sbf kent]

OK...so in the real world when you have an issue, you seek recompense from the party you bought it from?

If the fault is with a supplier, they deal with that. Can you imagine a car manufacturer saying, well sorry we did not make the component, so you need to back to them.

I bought the ticket from GWR, they should process the claim for me. This is a clear case of train operating companies stitching up customers to their mutual interest. I have not got a contract with Transport for Wales.

 

[MrJeeves]

this is a clear case of train operating companies stitching up customers to their mutual interest

Many third party retailers would also prefer it to be this way, but, alas, it's not.

You do have a contract with TfW under the NRCoT, though. That is a contract you agree to between you and all the train operators when buying a ticket from any retailer.

 

[Haywain]

I have not contract with Transport for Wales.

You do, as you were travelling on their train.

 

[Watershed]

OK...so in the real world when you have an issue you seen recompense from the party you bought it from? If the fault is with a supplier, they deal with that. Can you imagine a car manufacturer saying, well sorry we did not make the component, so you need to back to them. I bought the ticket from GWR, they should process the claim for me. this is a clear case of train operating companies stitching up customers to their mutual interest. I have not contract with Transport for Wales.

Whilst I appreciate it may feel frustrating, I'm afraid the railway is hardly an exception in the way it handles this situation. Whenever tickets are sold by third parties - whether that's for trains, flights, or events - the retailer you buy your ticket from acts as the agent of the underlying company that provides the service. You are, legally speaking, still entering into a contract with that underlying company - it's just happening via an agent. That is in complete contrast to the situation when you buy a car from a dealer, because in that situation the dealer is procuring the car itself and is (usually) the only entity you have a contract with.

Back to the train/flight/event context, the retailer is typically only responsible for handling payment and making sure you get your ticket. Everything else, such as complaints or compensation if the service provided isn't up to scratch, is down to the company which the retailer is acting on behalf of.

In this case, you therefore absolutely do have a contract with TfW - if you didn't, you wouldn't be allowed to travel with them! This contract is set out in the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT), which explains who you should contact for different things. The NRCoT say that you should claim any compensation for delays from the train company at fault.

Let's imagine you'd bought your ticket from an independent third party retailer such as Trainline, who don't operate trains. Surely you'd agree that it would be unreasonable to miss out on compensation just because they didn't operate trains, and therefore don't have their own Delay Repay scheme? The same principle applies when you buy your ticket from a company that also happens to operate trains, such as GWR. Just because you bought your ticket through them, doesn't mean that you should claim Delay Repay from them if things go wrong. You should claim from the train company at fault.

As it happens, claiming Delay Repay from the 'wrong' company doesn't mean that you lose out. The NRCoT say that your claim will be forwarded to the correct company, and that's exactly what has happened here.

 

[yorkie]

OK...so in the real world when you have an issue, you seek recompense from the party you bought it from?

If the fault is with a supplier, they deal with that. Can you imagine a car manufacturer saying, well sorry we did not make the component, so you need to back to them.

Your analogy seems to be tied in knots but it's irrelevant to this matter in hand. Any comparisons with the motor industry would be best posted in a different forum section.

I bought the ticket from GWR, they should process the claim for me. This is a clear case of train operating companies stitching up customers to their mutual interest.

You claim from the company who caused the delay.

There is a thread to discuss whether the policy should be that claims are handled by the retailer; see:

Delay Repay should be provided by retailers

The current system, whereby a refund request goes to the retailer but a delay repay request goes to the TOC who is deemed to have caused the delay, is not fit for purpose. Passengers get confused and not only that but TOCs themselves have been known, on numerous occasions, to erroneously palm...

www.railforums.co.uk

I have not got a contract with Transport for Wales.

You certainly did have a contract with TfW, as stipulated in the Conditions of Travel.

TfW are liable to pay delay compensation of 100% of the value of the ticket.

It's unclear if you also claimed from GWR as well as TfW, but you should only make one claim for the journey.

 

[Belperpete]

OK...so in the real world when you have an issue you seen recompense from the party you bought it from? If the fault is with a supplier, they deal with that. Can you imagine a car manufacturer saying, well sorry we did not make the component, so you need to back to them. I bought the ticket from GWR, they should process the claim for me. this is a clear case of train operating companies stitching up customers to their mutual interest. I have not contract with Transport for Wales.

It was not the train operating companies that decided this, it was the government when it privatised the railways. While splitting the railway up into competing companies, they wanted to retain a supposedly integrated ticketing system. Presumably to avoid the kind of nonsense that occurred in the early days of the London underground, where each station would have both Metropolitan Railway and District Railway ticket offices, and you had to be careful to buy your ticket from the right ticket office according to which train you wanted to catch! A bit like Easyjet won't sell you a ticket for travel on Ryanair, even where they operate the same route.

So they set up a system where you can buy a ticket from any train operating company for travel on any train operating company's train. Often your ticket may be valid on several competing company's trains on the same route. But when they sell you a ticket for another TOC's train, they are effectively just acting as agents, your contract is with the TOC running the train, and it is that company who you need to claim compensation from if their train is delayed.

But if you decide not to travel, you have to get a refund from whoever sold you the ticket! In that way, it is similar to air travel when you buy your ticket from an agent, if you are delayed you claim compensation from the airline, but if you want a refund you go to the agent.