digital fraud wmr railcard

[Midz124]

Hi, I received an email on Friday stating there has been misuse of a railcard. I then sent an apology essentially saying this will not happen again and I am very sorry.
I received a reply Saturday morning, outlining that I have been applying 16-17 railcard discount for over two years dating back to late 2021. They said they have identified multiple instances of this occurring and the total outstanding amount is over £500.
They gave me three options: to pay, provide proof of railcard, or have case handed over to prosecution team.
They then listed their bank details below for payment and said i must reply within 7 days to avoid escalation.
However, i had someone phone their customer relations today and they stated they do not normally ask for payment this way and provided an email to ask more questions on.
What should i do now? I am awaiting an email response from them but does this sound like a scam or should i pay them?

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi.

What address is the email from please? Also, if you could show us the message it would help the pros here. Edit out your name and any reference number.

 

[Haywain]

does this sound like a scam or should i pay them?

It doesn't sound like a scam, it's something that WMR do and you can find quite a number of cases on the forum. As for whether you should pay them, you have made the mistake of engaging with them and they would now be in a stronger position to bring a prosecution than they would if you had not replied. Therefore it is a matter for your own peace of mind and consience whether you pay or risk the matter being followed up through the legal system. Having got to this stage I would be inclined to pay.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi, I received an email on Friday stating there has been misuse of a railcard. I then sent an apology essentially saying this will not happen again

Have you ever been stopped while travelling? If not, they have no evidence to prosecute you, so this course of action will turn out to be unwise and expensive for you I'm afraid. Ignoring the email is the best option, but it is too late now.

I received a reply Saturday morning, outlining that I have been applying 16-17 railcard discount for over two years dating back to late 2021. They said they have identified multiple instances of this occurring and the total outstanding amount is over £500.
They gave me three options: to pay, provide proof of railcard, or have case handed over to prosecution team.
They then listed their bank details below for payment and said i must reply within 7 days to avoid escalation.

This is normal.

However, i had someone phone their customer relations today and they stated they do not normally ask for payment this way and provided an email to ask more questions on.
What should i do now? I am awaiting an email response from them but does this sound like a scam or should i pay them?

Customer relations don't have a clue how the prosecution team works. This is unlikely to be a scam, and if you browse the forum you will see this is how WMT works.

Having already emailed them to accept your guilt here you now have no realistic way out other than paying them over £500.

In the future, if someone confronts you with allegations out of the blue - true or false - say, and do, nothing unless and until you receive advice.

 

[Hadders]

Customer Relations will not be able to assist with this. If you have a concern about the authenticity of the email then you should contact the Prosecutions Department at WMR.

It is usual for WMT to do this sort of thing. A look through this section of the forum reveals many such cases.

 

[Midz124]

Hi.

What address is the email from please? Also, if you could show us the message it would help the pros here. Edit out your name and any reference number.

the email was from
[email protected]

Thank you for the replies. Is this a common way that WMR will ask for payment? i have searched it up and it says they will never ask for payment via bank transfer. I do not think it is a scam but asking around people have said otherwise.

 

[AlterEgo]

the email was from
[email protected]

That is their email address.

Thank you for the replies. Is this a common way that WMR will ask for payment?

Yes.

i have searched it up and it says they will never ask for payment via bank transfer.

When you say “it says”, what is “it”? Their site?

 

[Midz124]

That is their email address.


Yes.


When you say “it says”, what is “it”? Their site?

It refers to the ai overview when you search on safari.

Will I have to pay the fine within 7 days or just reply by then. They said to respond with the chosen option within 7 days

 

[AlterEgo]

It refers to the ai overview when you search on safari.

That’ll probably have scraped all the useless and irrelevant information about how to buy a ticket. AI summaries are worse than no information at all.

Will I have to pay the fine within 7 days or just reply by then. They said to respond with the chosen option within 7 days

You have to respond by then. There will then be another deadline to pay. I expect it’ll be something like 3-4 weeks.

 

[Midz124]

I have since emailed back and said i would proceed with option A and asked if there are alternate forms of payment, such as through phone or a website, this is the reply :

Thank you for your response, and for choosing option A, when are you proposing to make payment? we would anticipate this being paid by no later than the 30th of April 2025, but we are willing to work with you and can extend the deadline if needed.

In answer to your question are there alternate forms of payment as well? we currently only accept bacs transfer, if you prefer to come into a station to make payment we can make arrangements for this to happen at a mutually agreed station, date and time.

Please respond within 7 days from the date of this letter to avoid further escalation.


I may be reading too much into it but does the improper english read like a scam?

I have replied to this saying I will make payment by coming into a station (in order to validate their authenticity).

 

[Haywain]

It is not a scam.

 

[AlterEgo]

WMT’s prosecution team frequently sends stuff out with mistakes in written English. Obviously a scammer isn’t going to write from WMT’s correct email address, know about all your ticket mishaps, and also invite you to pay at a railway station.

I’m afraid they really are just not especially literate.

I fully expect the payment at a station option to be worse than pulling teeth but if it’s what you’d prefer then that’s up to you.

 

[WesternLancer]

I have since emailed back and said i would proceed with option A and asked if there are alternate forms of payment, such as through phone or a website, this is the reply :

Thank you for your response, and for choosing option A, when are you proposing to make payment? we would anticipate this being paid by no later than the 30th of April 2025, but we are willing to work with you and can extend the deadline if needed.

In answer to your question are there alternate forms of payment as well? we currently only accept bacs transfer, if you prefer to come into a station to make payment we can make arrangements for this to happen at a mutually agreed station, date and time.

Please respond within 7 days from the date of this letter to avoid further escalation.


I may be reading too much into it but does the improper english read like a scam?

I have replied to this saying I will make payment by coming into a station (in order to validate their authenticity).

If you are concerned about making a BACS transfer then at least you have the option of agreeing a time to pay at a railway station ticket office where you could be issued with a proper receipt etc. I would have no problem with that (but then I live near a railway station).

 

[Midz124]

thanks for the replies sorry if i seem pedantic about the situation it’s just i’m a uni student so the whole thing has stressed me out about funds. When i go to the station to pay will they question me further on the matter? or just get me to pay the fine then it’s done with

 

[AlterEgo]

thanks for the replies sorry if i seem pedantic about the situation it’s just i’m a uni student so the whole thing has stressed me out about funds. When i go to the station to pay will they question me further on the matter? or just get me to pay the fine then it’s done with

I don’t think we’ve ever come across anyone who has ever done this.

 

[Knoodlepot]

thanks for the replies sorry if i seem pedantic about the situation it’s just i’m a uni student so the whole thing has stressed me out about funds. When i go to the station to pay will they question me further on the matter? or just get me to pay the fine then it’s done with

The Booking office will not care they will just take the payment.

 

[WesternLancer]

I

thanks for the replies sorry if i seem pedantic about the situation it’s just i’m a uni student so the whole thing has stressed me out about funds. When i go to the station to pay will they question me further on the matter? or just get me to pay the fine then it’s done with

Personally I would not expect you to face further questioning - in the unlikely event of that you would just politely say that you have come to make a payment and obtain a receipt and to be confident the payment was to a legitimate business account for the railway company so took up the offer to pay at a station ticket office.

If you were asked anything else politely decline to answer and ask that if any other questions, please put them to you in writing.

 

[Amaranthe]

it’s just i’m a uni student

So why buy a 16-17 railcard rather than a 16-25 one? The 16-25 one is even valid for full time mature students.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

So why buy a 16-17 railcard rather than a 16-25 one? The 16-25 one is even valid for full time mature students.

The indication is that the OP claimed to have a 16-17 railcard, but it had either expired or never had one. I believe it offers a 50% discount as opposed to 33% with most other cards.

 

[Amaranthe]

The indication is that the OP claimed to have a 16-17 railcard, but it had either expired or never had one. I believe it offers a 50% discount as opposed to 33% with most other cards.

Ahh I misunderstood the situation. Apologies!

 

[SCDR_WMR]

The Booking office will not care they will just take the payment.

It will almost certainly be a member of Revenue Protection or Digital Fraud team that meets the OP at the station or their choice with payment being made by card on their PED rather than the station's equipment.

There is a small chance of further questions but in an informal setting, not under caution, so no need to respond other than directed here.

 

[Midz124]

update i’ve arranged to meet a member of their staff at a station next week, i would rather have simply payed online but it’s my parents helping me to pay the fine and they still believe it’s a scam so want me to do it in person. what is the likelihood of me being questioned while i’m there and could they potentially increase the fine, sorry this whole thing has just made me really anxious, or will it just be a simple pay and leave situation

 

[AlterEgo]

update i’ve arranged to meet a member of their staff at a station next week, i would rather have simply payed online but it’s my parents helping me to pay the fine and they still believe it’s a scam so want me to do it in person. what is the likelihood of me being questioned while i’m there and could they potentially increase the fine, sorry this whole thing has just made me really anxious, or will it just be a simple pay and leave situation

It’s hard to say, I don’t think anyone has ever done this before and come on the forum to say. If they ask questions just don’t answer them.

 

[Titfield]

They won’t increase the fine. They may ask a few questions but I think this is unlikely or they will Peter out very quickly. Their goal is to get payment from you and to be reassured you won’t do it again. I suspect your body language will tell them you won’t do it again.

 

[WesternLancer]

update i’ve arranged to meet a member of their staff at a station next week, i would rather have simply payed online but it’s my parents helping me to pay the fine and they still believe it’s a scam so want me to do it in person. what is the likelihood of me being questioned while i’m there and could they potentially increase the fine, sorry this whole thing has just made me really anxious, or will it just be a simple pay and leave situation

I don’t think you should be too worried about this situation. Just be businesslike about it. It’s a small thing but I would suggest dressing reasonably smartly (I don’t mean a suit and tie is needed though), and be polite at all times.

It would certainly be of help if you could report back on what happens as others say I don’t think we have seen this option for payment before but it may be of help to others in future to read a brief outline of it.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

update i’ve arranged to meet a member of their staff at a station next week, i would rather have simply payed online but it’s my parents helping me to pay the fine and they still believe it’s a scam so want me to do it in person. what is the likelihood of me being questioned while i’m there and could they potentially increase the fine, sorry this whole thing has just made me really anxious, or will it just be a simple pay and leave situation

It's 100% not a scam. You have an agreement over the amount payable too so that won't change. I'm sure they will show their ID to you, but you can always ask for it to double check their authenticity.

Show remorse, be apologetic, pay up, ask for a receipt and move on with your life. Oh and make sure you comply with ticketing and railway bylaws in the future

 

[talldave]

Simply be polite and if any questions are asked respond along the lines of "I don't wish to make any further comment beyond the arrangement we have and wish to make the agreed payment."

 

[WesternLancer]

Simply be polite and if any questions are asked respond along the lines of "I don't wish to make any further comment beyond the arrangement we have and wish to make the agreed payment."

exactly the approach to take in my view

 

[pelli]

One only very tangentially related case from last year comes to mind: A woman misused her husband's season ticket and got it confiscated by Southeastern, and one of their investigators later arranged to meet up with the husband in person to return it. At the meeting, the husband was made to sign "an attestation that if the card is found to be used by another person that is not him, he will be prosecuted", but it appears "no further action" was taken against either the husband or wife. Whether he had been informed beforehand that he would be expected to sign an attestation is unclear.

Returning to the present case (which is really different in all aspects except that a meeting in person is taking place...), since the option to pay remotely by bank transfer was offered, I would guess that WMR's expectation from the meeting is similarly to just take payment, but perhaps OP should mentally prepare themselves for the small possibility of a brief discussion and signing some document promising not to do it again.