Direct trains from Nottingham to the west country

[Rob F]

Throughout the 1970s and early 1980s our family holiday consisted of two weeks in St Ives and we almost always travelled on the overnight train from Nottingham to Newquay on a Friday night, changing in the early hours at Plymouth. As a young child this was incredibly exciting and I remember looking forward to the journey just as much as the holiday! Dad worked in the Nottingham divisional office at Furlong House and could get advanced notice of the train formation to ensure we were stood in the right place on the platform (always 1 or 5) to bag a compartment to use as a pseudo sleeper.

The last time we did this was 1984 and I remember the disappointment that there was not a single compartment coach in the train!

From 1985 we switched to holidaying in Dawlish for a while and there was a Nottingham to Paignton train on Saturday morning. In 1985 it was loco plus coaches (class 47 plus early mk2) but from 1986 onwards it was a MML HST set.

Does anyone know when the Friday Newquay train started and stopped running and also does anyone have a timetable of the period as I would like to know the stops and the timings. I would also like to ask the same questions about the Saturday morning Paignton train. I know the Newquay went via Derby and the Paignton via Leicester but that is about it.

Rob

 

[Sprinter107]

This is from the May 1979 to May 1980 timetable. Hope this is the train you're looking for.
Nottingham 21.34
Long Eaton 21.48
Derby 21.59 - 22.09
Burton 22.26
Tamworth 22.40
New Street 23.11 - 23.16
Cheltenham 00.07
Bristol TM 01.04 - 01.30
Plymouth 04.30 - 05.00
Par 05.56 set down
Newquay 06.50
Train was dated 16th June to 22 September. A footnote states :
"Passengers may alight at Bristol Temple Meads to purchase refreshments (subject to the maintenance of the scheduled departure time as shown on table 135 or as given in loudspeaker announcements are Bristol)"
Dont know if it's of interest, but that train was followed very closely (about 20 mins behined from New Street) by a 21.37 Manchester Piccadilly to Newquay train, which overtook the Nottingham one at Plymouth, arriving in Newquay at 06.32, and was dated from 26th May to 22 September.

 

[WesternLancer]

This is from the May 1979 to May 1980 timetable. Hope this is the train you're looking for.
Nottingham 21.34
Long Eaton 21.48
Derby 21.59 - 22.09
Burton 22.26
Tamworth 22.40
New Street 23.11 - 23.16
Cheltenham 00.07
Bristol TM 01.04 - 01.30
Plymouth 04.30 - 05.00
Par 05.56 set down
Newquay 06.50
Train was dated 16th June to 22 September. A footnote states :
"Passengers may alight at Bristol Temple Meads to purchase refreshments (subject to the maintenance of the scheduled departure time as shown on table 135 or as given in loudspeaker announcements are Bristol)"
Dont know if it's of interest, but that train was followed very closely (about 20 mins behined from New Street) by a 21.37 Manchester Piccadilly to Newquay train, which overtook the Nottingham one at Plymouth, arriving in Newquay at 06.32, and was dated from 26th May to 22 September.

Gosh - almost an advertised 'refreshment stop' and at 1am ish - I wonder how common they were by 1980!

 

[Sprinter107]

Gosh - almost an advertised 'refreshment stop' and at 1am ish - I wonder how common they were by 1980!

I know. Could you imagine that now ! They must have kept the refreshment rooms at Temple Meads open until the very early hours.

 

[Rob F]

I know about the Bristol refreshment stop. Dad once got off to buy some drinks and as he was about to pay he noticed that the train had started to leave! He left four teas on the counter unpaid for and legged it. The guard hauled him on through the inward opening door when he was almost at a full run!

I was also aware of the Manchester - Newquay train as one year quite a few people got off the Nottingham train at Plymouth who wanted destinations further west than Par. The platform staff told us the next train was for Penzance from Paddington but it was actually the aforementioned train from Manchester and we all ended up in Newquay. I don’t think we got to St Ives until the early afternoon!

 

[WesternLancer]

I know about the Bristol refreshment stop. Dad once got off to buy some drinks and as he was about to pay he noticed that the train had started to leave! He left four teas on the counter unpaid for and legged it. The guard hauled him on through the inward opening door when he was almost at a full run!

I was also aware of the Manchester - Newquay train as one year quite a few people got off the Nottingham train at Plymouth who wanted destinations further west than Par. The platform staff told us the next train was for Penzance from Paddington but it was actually the aforementioned train from Manchester and we all ended up in Newquay. I don’t think we got to St Ives until the early afternoon!

Wow - presumably the alternative for your dad would have been to wait for the ex Manchester train and enjoy 4 cups of tea to himself!

What a great 'footnote' to the timetable footnote.

 

[Rob F]

This is from the May 1979 to May 1980 timetable. Hope this is the train you're looking for.
Nottingham 21.34
Long Eaton 21.48
Derby 21.59 - 22.09
Burton 22.26
Tamworth 22.40
New Street 23.11 - 23.16
Cheltenham 00.07
Bristol TM 01.04 - 01.30
Plymouth 04.30 - 05.00
Par 05.56 set down
Newquay 06.50
Train was dated 16th June to 22 September. A footnote states :
"Passengers may alight at Bristol Temple Meads to purchase refreshments (subject to the maintenance of the scheduled departure time as shown on table 135 or as given in loudspeaker announcements are Bristol)"
Dont know if it's of interest, but that train was followed very closely (about 20 mins behined from New Street) by a 21.37 Manchester Piccadilly to Newquay train, which overtook the Nottingham one at Plymouth, arriving in Newquay at 06.32, and was dated from 26th May to 22 September.

Thanks for the information. I wonder why the Manchester train overtook the Nottingham one?

I assume that at this time the Saturday train to Paignton was not running? I have a vague recollection that it replaced the overnight to Newquay in 1985 but I cannot be certain.

 

[Sprinter107]

Thanks for the information. I wonder why the Manchester train overtook the Nottingham one?

I assume that at this time the Saturday train to Paignton was not running? I have a vague recollection that it replaced the overnight to Newquay in 1985 but I cannot be certain.

Yes I thought it a bit strange that the Manchester train overtook the Nottingham one, especially when both trains were near their destinations.

 

[RichmondCommu]

This is from the May 1979 to May 1980 timetable. Hope this is the train you're looking for.
Nottingham 21.34
Long Eaton 21.48
Derby 21.59 - 22.09
Burton 22.26
Tamworth 22.40
New Street 23.11 - 23.16
Cheltenham 00.07
Bristol TM 01.04 - 01.30
Plymouth 04.30 - 05.00
Par 05.56 set down
Newquay 06.50
Train was dated 16th June to 22 September. A footnote states :
"Passengers may alight at Bristol Temple Meads to purchase refreshments (subject to the maintenance of the scheduled departure time as shown on table 135 or as given in loudspeaker announcements are Bristol)"
Dont know if it's of interest, but that train was followed very closely (about 20 mins behined from New Street) by a 21.37 Manchester Piccadilly to Newquay train, which overtook the Nottingham one at Plymouth, arriving in Newquay at 06.32, and was dated from 26th May to 22 September.

I'd be interested to know whether the loco ran round its train at Derby or whether another loco was attached to the front.

 

[Rob F]

I'd be interested to know whether the loco ran round its train at Derby or whether another loco was attached to the front.

My recollection is that it ran round.

 

[DDB]

There is still a direct train from Nottingham to the West Country. It goes to Bournemouth but that is in Dorset so I'm counting it. Only problems are it is weekdays only and leaves at 6:43AM!

 

[Rob F]

Correct, the only regular visit of a Voyager to Nottingham.

 

[WesternLancer]

There is still a direct train from Nottingham to the West Country. It goes to Bournemouth but that is in Dorset so I'm counting it. Only problems are it is weekdays only and leaves at 6:43AM!

I'm pretty sure i've got it on a saturday - in fact I think I used it to head west and then picked up an XC HST at Derby earlier in the year, then to get a GW HST run from Bristol Parkway into wales, then HST back to London.

 

[DDB]

I'm pretty sure i've got it on a saturday - in fact I think I used it to head west and then picked up an XC HST at Derby earlier in the year, then to get a GW HST run from Bristol Parkway into wales, then HST back to London.

You are right! I hadn't realised it also ran on a Saturday until you said. I may have to try it one day.

 

[edwin_m]

It may win some kind of prize for the slowest long-distance train relative to driving. Compared with the straight line it does a big swerve off to the right via Birmingham then off to the left via Reading, taking about five hours when it's possible to drive it in around three.

 

[WesternLancer]

It may win some kind of prize for the slowest long-distance train relative to driving. Compared with the straight line it does a big swerve off to the right via Birmingham then off to the left via Reading, taking about five hours when it's possible to drive it in around three.

Drive to Bournemouth in 3 do you mean? From Nottm. Not sure about that, but these XC routes have never been as fast as they should be really. Too much investment directed at IC london routes IMHO. The whole Nottm to Brum rail route is very uncompetitve with the car - in fact few people seem to do it who have car access, compared with the market potential I would say (a bit off topic here!).

I've used that Voyager as far south as Oxford on a saturday, but it's more pleasant to get the XC HST, tho not an option on the Reading route south of New St of course.

 

[SouthDevonian]

The Nottingham - Newquay started in 1965 and replaced the previous Newcastle - Newquay & Penzance which divided at Sheffield and went forward separately from there (although there is uncertainty about 1964 as both were advertised to start from Sheffield but TCs for Cornwall from Newcastle may have been carried by the Newcastle - Bristol train). If you have access to the 'Operation Cornwall' book published by Xpress Publishing you will see details of these two & every other Cornish passenger service for summer 1957 (separate sections for weekdays & Saturdays), ie. for each train:- source & destination of every coach; type of vehicle; previous & next workings.

Nottingham - Newquay was still running in 1984 but the start had changed to Newcastle by 1987. The Newcastle - Penzance continued until about 1977 or later and at some point it was diverted from Penzance to Newquay.

 

[RichmondCommu]

My recollection is that it ran round.

I'm quite impressed that it managed to do that in 10 minutes. Having said that Derby station would have been pretty quiet at that time of night.

 

[Rob F]

The Nottingham - Newquay started in 1965 and replaced the previous Newcastle - Newquay & Penzance which divided at Sheffield and went forward separately from there (although there is uncertainty about 1964 as both were advertised to start from Sheffield but TCs for Cornwall from Newcastle may have been carried by the Newcastle - Bristol train). If you have access to the 'Operation Cornwall' book published by Xpress Publishing you will see details of these two & every other Cornish passenger service for summer 1957 (separate sections for weekdays & Saturdays), ie. for each train:- source & destination of every coach; type of vehicle; previous & next workings.

Nottingham - Newquay was still running in 1984 but the start had changed to Newcastle by 1987. The Newcastle - Penzance continued until about 1977 or later and at some point it was diverted from Penzance to Newquay.

So it is possible that 1984, the last year we used it, was the last year it ran.

Anyone know if the SO Paignton train started in 1985 and also when it finished?

 

[duffield]

Throughout the 1970s and early 1980s our family holiday consisted of two weeks in St Ives and we almost always travelled on the overnight train from Nottingham to Newquay on a Friday night, changing in the early hours at Plymouth. As a young child this was incredibly exciting and I remember looking forward to the journey just as much as the holiday! Dad worked in the Nottingham divisional office at Furlong House ...

Offtopic, but I worked at Furlong House (supporting the IBM Mainframe railway computer systems) until it was demolished a few years back.

 

[Rob F]

Offtopic, but I worked at Furlong House (supporting the IBM Mainframe railway computer systems) until it was demolished a few years back.

Were the mainframes in the building at the back, was it John Peyton House?

 

[duffield]

Were the mainframes in the building at the back, was it John Peyton House?

Yes, that's right. JPH, the computer centre as was, is still there, next to the Dunelm that replaced FH, but it no longer houses any mainframes, I believe there is still some railway comms equipment still there, owned by a company called 'Global Crossing'. I understand at least one of the BR era security staff still works in reception there!

 

[SouthDevonian]

Nottingham – Paignton summer FO/SO trains

1. Down Overnight Train

I don’t know when this started but the earliest year that I have records for is 1957 (‘Operation Torbay’ by Xpress Publications) and this shows it leaving at 10.00PM from Nottingham and arriving at Paignton at 5.25AM. Until 1962 or 1963 it was routed via Derby but afterwards travelled via Leicester when a preceding Leicester – Paignton train was dropped. This continued to run till at least 1979 and had ceased by 1982. Presumably Nottingham to Paignton passengers used the Nottingham - Newquay train in later years and changed somewhere south.


2. Down Daytime Train

The origins lie with the Nottingham – Plymouth via Derby. Again the earliest year that I have records for is 1957 and they show it leaving at 7.43AM from Nottingham. This continued to go to Plymouth until 1964 after which it was diverted to Paignton. The route continued to be via Derby until at least 1979 but by 1982 it was travelling via Leicester. The last year that I can find any record of a Nottingham – Paignton through train is 1993.

 

[Rob F]

Thanks, I had no idea there was an overnight to Paignton, it must have arrived really early if it was leaving at 10pm.

 

[SouthDevonian]

Nottingham – Paignton summer FO/SO trains

1. Down Overnight Train

The departure time from Nottingham remained at or around 10.00PM throughout (the latest departure time was 10.19PM in 1979). The years with the earliest arrival in Paignton (4.35AM) were 1972/3/4. The Operation Torbay book, which was largely compiled by railwaymen who were around at the time, has a piece of narrative for each train. Against the preceding 1957 train – 10PM Leicester to Paignton – it remarks on the route taken, ie. ex-LMS rather than ex-Great Central. Unlike today, up to the early 1960s, there was what was often described as an Iron Curtain at Bristol TM between the ex-LMS & ex-GWR despite nationalisation after the war. Another comment in the book about the Leicester was ‘Decanting its passengers at an unearthly hour, it generated one of Paignton’s most curious sights – dozens of cloth-capped men and their families killing time by wandering the streets at five in the morning’. Both comments apply equally to the Nottingham train.

Incidentally the book shows, between 4.24AM and 9.35AM, long distance trains arrived at Paignton from Leicester, Wolverhampton LL, Nottingham, Sheffield, Bradford FS, Manchester Victoria (x2 – usually starting back at one of the mill towns further north – the start varied from week to week depending on which town was starting its holiday week), Hull, Newcastle and Manchester London Rd. All had to serviced for return within about 3 hours.

2. Down Daytime Train

I suspect the reason that the Nottingham train ran to Plymouth, rather than to Paignton, up until 1964 was because Paignton would have already been overwhelmed with trains at that time of day. Around then the bulk of WR services from Paddington, South Wales and West Midlands would have been descending on the Torbay line.

 

[ChrisC]

There also used to be a through train from Nottingham to Poole on summer Saturdays. I remember it from round about 1980. If I remember correctly I think it ran via Leicester between Nottingham and Birmingham. There were quite a few summer Saturday trains around that time from destinations in the north to Bournemouth, Poole and Weymouth. Many of these missed out calling at Reading so didn’t need to reverse there. There was one which I think originated at Bradford which didn’t call at Birmingham.

 

[SouthDevonian]

Up to the end of the early 1960s, holiday trains from Yorkshire & the East Midlands to the coastal resorts of Dorset & Hants used either the ex-Midland Railway route via Birmingham, Gloucester and the Somerset & Dorset to reach Poole & Bournemouth West or the ex-Great Central route to Banbury where they were handed over to the WR who handed them on to the SR at Oxford for Portsmouth, etc. The Midland route ceased at the end of the 1962 season when all but local services were diverted to the GC line. However the GC line ceased to be used by these trains at the end of the 1964 summer season, apart from the long standing Newcastle/York to Poole which continued to go this way until the end of the 1966 season. Thereafter these were reduced in number and re-routed on to the Midland Main Line, initially via Mkt Harboro' & Oxford but later via Hendon & Old Kew Jn. The Bradford - Poole train was one of these - in fact it had so many variations of route over the seasons up to 1986 that I can't think of any other service that had more.

A similar situation applied to the Yorkshire & the East Midlands trains to/from the Sussex & Kent coasts that originally used the GC line.

 

[ChrisC]

I remember as a child, in the early 1960’s, regularly watching the York to Bournemouth train on the GC at Linby, north of Hucknall, in Nottinghamshire. I remember the green southern region carriages very clearly. I think it was the southbound train around lunchtime It was a good sight as it ran high up on an embankment and over bridges crossing the Midland and Great Northern lines at Linby. Of the 3 lines only the Midland is still in use as part of the Nottingham to Mansfield/Worksop Robin Hood Line. I wonder how well loaded those weekday York to Bournemouth trains were on the GC in those last years of it using that route.

 

[telstarbox]

Throughout the 1970s and early 1980s our family holiday consisted of two weeks in St Ives and we almost always travelled on the overnight train from Nottingham to Newquay on a Friday night, changing in the early hours at Plymouth. As a young child this was incredibly exciting and I remember looking forward to the journey just as much as the holiday! Dad worked in the Nottingham divisional office at Furlong House and could get advanced notice of the train formation to ensure we were stood in the right place on the platform (always 1 or 5) to bag a compartment to use as a pseudo sleeper.

The last time we did this was 1984 and I remember the disappointment that there was not a single compartment coach in the train!

From 1985 we switched to holidaying in Dawlish for a while and there was a Nottingham to Paignton train on Saturday morning. In 1985 it was loco plus coaches (class 47 plus early mk2) but from 1986 onwards it was a MML HST set.

Does anyone know when the Friday Newquay train started and stopped running and also does anyone have a timetable of the period as I would like to know the stops and the timings. I would also like to ask the same questions about the Saturday morning Paignton train. I know the Newquay went via Derby and the Paignton via Leicester but that is about it.

Rob

Interesting post Rob. Can I ask if your family had a car at the time (and if so did you use the train anyway?)

 

[Rob F]

No, we never had a car. We went everywhere using Dad’s priv tickets.