Disability campaigners in Wales have called for more wheelchair space on buses

[Bletchleyite]

I don't quite see your point here.. as I stated the taxi/ PHV fleet has been completely renewed at least TWICE since low floor buses were introduced...

I really don't get your obsession with this - it almost comes across as "not fair".

What needs to be wheelchair accessible is the service, not individual vehicles.

With buses and Hackney carriages, the only way to do this is to make all vehicles accessible. But with a pre-booked service all that is needed is a requirement that if a wheelchair user calls for a vehicle, they will receive an accessible vehicle on the same timescale as someone able-bodied who calls for one.

How that is delivered is down to the company. Fully accessible vehicles are one way, another way is to have a number of fully accessible vehicles based on demand and be more careful of how they are deployed.

 

[quarella]

No reason why most buses can't have two wheelchair spaces, most buses (outside London, excepting minibuses) have two spaces at the front of the bus. It's just that one of them doesn't have the backrest for the wheelchair. Everything else is there.

No reason why you couldn't have two wheelchair spaces here for instance:

The maximum capacity of the vehicle will be displayed and if that states one wheelchair, one wheelchair is all that can be carried
.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The maximum capacity of the vehicle will be displayed and if that states one wheelchair, one wheelchair is all that can be carried
.

No reason why it couldn't be changed. Easy enough to do. The space is there, would take minutes to change the plated capacity.

As for taxis being accessible, I agree with Neil: it's the service that needs to be accessible. And taxi operators are also restricted: they can't refuse to carry disabled passengers and they can't charge wheelchair passengers more. Some firms in Middlesbrough tried it and were fined quite heavily.

And Go-Ahead up here had a "Low Floor Guarantee" long before the DDA rules came in. If they said a bus would be low floor, and it wasn't, they'd ring you a taxi

 

[mbonwick]

No reason why it couldn't be changed. Easy enough to do. The space is there, would take minutes to change the plated capacity.

Except you need to put the correct grabrails, back boards, bell pushes etc in (probably at least half a day's work), then send it for MOT to get the capacity change approved...

 

[quarella]

I really don't get your obsession with this - it almost comes across as "not fair".

What needs to be wheelchair accessible is the service, not individual vehicles.

With buses and Hackney carriages, the only way to do this is to make all vehicles accessible. But with a pre-booked service all that is needed is a requirement that if a wheelchair user calls for a vehicle, they will receive an accessible vehicle on the same timescale as someone able-bodied who calls for one.

How that is delivered is down to the company. Fully accessible vehicles are one way, another way is to have a number of fully accessible vehicles based on demand and be more careful of how they are deployed.

In my local area Hackney carriages are not yet required to be accessible. I have had cause to require wheelchair accessible taxis at short notice in a variety of locations across the country. Even in large cities there is often a long wait, especially as at certain time of the day many are under contract.

I am not sure how your proposal of vehicle deployment will work as the majority of drivers are not directly employed by the taxi firm and are only earning when someone is sat in the back.

 

[PeterC]

The maximum capacity of the vehicle will be displayed and if that states one wheelchair, one wheelchair is all that can be carried
.

So you are saying that if the seating configuration of a bus is changed there is no way to have the legal capacity updated from the original build?

Remember that the post that you responded to was talking about a physical adaption to the vehicle, not just allowing an extra wheelchair into the "buggy bay".

 

[quarella]

So you are saying that if the seating configuration of a bus is changed there is no way to have the legal capacity updated from the original build?

Remember that the post that you responded to was talking about a physical adaption to the vehicle, not just allowing an extra wheelchair into the "buggy bay".

Capacities can and have been changed for a variety reasons over the years so as long as all legal requirements are met then that is no problem but it is not as simple as was suggested. (Post #35)

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am not sure how your proposal of vehicle deployment will work as the majority of drivers are not directly employed by the taxi firm and are only earning when someone is sat in the back.

The same way as it works at taxi companies which have other specialised vehicle options such as premium cars, minibuses and the likes - you allocate the job to a vehicle that can handle it, and if someone requests wheelchair access you allocate the accessible vehicle to that job rather than another one.

It really isn't hard.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

The same way as it works at taxi companies which have other specialised vehicle options such as premium cars, minibuses and the likes - you allocate the job to a vehicle that can handle it, and if someone requests wheelchair access you allocate the accessible vehicle to that job rather than another one.

It really isn't hard.

you seem to be labouring under the idea that taxi/ private hire firms always have loads of vehicles waiting around for fares... have you ever tried ordering a car at say 8pm saturday eve for "straight away"? last time I was in MK I was quoted a time of 45 mins wait.. when I eventually got through to the operator... I can only imagine how much longer I would have had to wait had I demanded a wheelchair accessible vehicle! of course it could be that you are suggesting that PH firms are legally required to have at least one wheelchair accessible vehicle sitting doing nothing waiting for a wheelchair user..

NO the ONLY way to ensure consistent compliance with equality regulations is to ensure that the ENTIRE fleet is accessible... so that no matter how busy the company is there is always a car available for all on a first come first served basis.

 

[Bletchleyite]

you seem to be labouring under the idea that taxi/ private hire firms always have loads of vehicles waiting around for fares... have you ever tried ordering a car at say 8pm saturday eve for "straight away"? last time I was in MK I was quoted a time of 45 mins wait.. when I eventually got through to the operator... I can only imagine how much longer I would have had to wait had I demanded a wheelchair accessible vehicle!

Possibly no time at all if the operator plans properly.

But if the wait was 45 minutes for a regular vehicle, if it was also 45 minutes for an accessible one that is absolutely fine. (Well, it's a bit rubbish, but that's a commercial matter). And that's easily manageable, as private-hire taxi jobs are generally very short, so as soon as the first accessible vehicle becomes available you allocate it, and if you're going to allocate it to a non-accessible job you don't send it off on a run to Heathrow but instead keep it on local town jobs (unless of course a wheelchair user wants to go to Heathrow). No problem.

of course it could be that you are suggesting that PH firms are legally required to have at least one wheelchair accessible vehicle sitting doing nothing waiting for a wheelchair user..

That would certainly be one way of the Company meeting that requirement.

NO the ONLY way to ensure consistent compliance with equality regulations is to ensure that the ENTIRE fleet is accessible... so that no matter how busy the company is there is always a car available for all on a first come first served basis.

First come first served is not the only method of private-hire taxi scheduling. Indeed, it's rather an ineffective one, because it effectively requires a uniform fleet rather than being able to specialise to the needs of each booking - a small car, a regular saloon, an MPV, a minibus, a wheelchair accessible vehicle etc.

If you go for a uniform fleet, you get the "jack of all trades, master of none" that is the London Hackney carriage - a big, lumbering, polluting vehicle that is difficult for "walking disabled" to access, is costly and is total overkill for 99% of London taxi jobs for which a Chevrolet Matiz or even a Smart car would be fine. For "hail and ride" Hackney carriages you can't really avoid that. For private hire you can - and you should.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Except you need to put the correct grabrails, back boards, bell pushes etc in (probably at least half a day's work), then send it for MOT to get the capacity change approved...

It'd take a day, two days at most. Tie it in with a mid-life refresh/refurbishment (e.g. Arriva's upgrade to MAX, which sees all new seats put in) and Bob's your mum's sister's live in lover.

It won't be possible on all buses- it'd be impossible on a Solo and you'd be struggling on an Eclipse Gemini- but on most buses it would be relatively straightforward.