Distractions a driver could face when approaching your cab to prepare it.

[DavidAtkin]

Hi everyone, just looking for some answers as to what distractions a driver could have when approaching your cab to prepare it.

Would it be in the form of….
Phones - texting/phone call
Customers
Along those lines.

Any in put would be appreciated.
Cheers.

 

[JordR]

Application question?

 

[Towers]

Other train movements, platform/station staff, guard confirming stopping pattern or initiating other conversation, train defect…

A rather long list, surely!

 

[DavidAtkin]

Application question?

Aye currently going through the application process atm

Other train movements, platform/station staff, guard confirming stopping pattern or initiating other conversation, train defect…

A rather long list, surely!

Thanks for the response pal

 

[chuff chuff]

If it's scotrail they want you to put your off before leaving bothy for your next train and of course you wouldn't switch your phone on if only short time between trains and preferably back in bothy.

 

[Harpo]

Weather conditions
Environmental conditions e.g. underfoot
Incorrect clothing
Your own body if you’ve not met its needs

 

[AverageJoe]

For things like this rather than ask a driver and get answers you didn’t come up with I’d always recommend to put yourself in the drivers shoes.

Go to a platform on a busy day and walk to the leading end of a train, imagine your about to drive it and what things you should be focusing on, and then take note of possible distractions along the way.

Maybe even follow a driver up and see what happens as regards any distractions you notice with them.


You have pretty much listed some of the main distractions yourself, but remember the application paper is ask you your thoughts.

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

For things like this rather than ask a driver and get answers you didn’t come up with I’d always recommend to put yourself in the drivers shoes.

Go to a platform on a busy day and walk to the leading end of a train, imagine your about to drive it and what things you should be focusing on, and then take note of possible distractions along the way.

Maybe even follow a driver up and see what happens as regards any distractions you notice with them.


You have pretty much listed some of the main distractions yourself, but remember the application paper is ask you your thoughts.

We could add “people following drivers to see how they get distracted” to the list

 

[DavidAtkin]

Thanks for everyone’s input

 

[Strat-tastic]

Ooh! Deltic

 

[TreacleMiller]

Hi everyone, just looking for some answers as to what distractions a driver could have when approaching your cab to prepare it.

Would it be in the form of….
Phones - texting/phone call
Customers
Along those lines.

Any in put would be appreciated.
Cheers.

Take your pick really.

Phones
Customers
Spotters
Information overload from staff / dispatch staff
Self distraction (lack of focus, bringing home to work etc)
Set maintenance issues
Disruption and changes to times.
Operational notices / restrictions issued last minute

 

[43066]

Information overload from staff / dispatch staff

A key one here is staff badgering you when you’re setting up the cab, on the phone to maintenance, on the phone to the signaller (often to say: “control have asked if you can phone the signaller/maintenance” ).

You need to be assertive enough to shut that kind of thing down, and to never allow yourself to be rushed. If necessary, take a deep breath and count to ten, and start setting up again. I have certainly shut the cab door on panicking dispatchers before. It can feel like you’re being bloody minded/awkward (you aren’t!), but it’s one of the most important skills to master.

 

[DavidAtkin]

Thanks for the information and advice everyone. It’s much appreciated

 

[whoosh]

On a similar theme to 43066's post, you can get platform staff whistling to hurry the passengers to board (let's say the train was late on its inward arrival), and you often have to override the urge to "hurry along" yourself when changing ends.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

Most TOCs will want you to turn your phone off before leaving the mess room (bothy) as @chuff chuff says for ScotRail above, and even if they don't it's a good habit to get into.
Many TOCs will want you to confirm stops with the guard/conductor as a form of aide memoir and indeed, were you to miss a station, would cite not doing so as a factor, so it's a little unfair to regard that as a distraction.
Customers are a major one, plus (as already mentioned) weather conditions, environmental noise and distractions - the hellfire class 37 in the next platform perhaps(!), personal problems, upcoming holidays, tiredness etc etc.
Most TOCs recommend risk-triggered commentary (where you say what you're doing out loud to yourself) to help focus on tasks such as preparing the cab (e.g. I'm checking the circuit breakers to make sure they're in the correct position, I'm looking at the fire extinguisher and making sure it is sealed etc ). The best advice if you get distracted mid-task is to start again after you have dealt with the distraction.

 

[DavidAtkin]

some good pieces of advice here and I appreciate every response

 

[I_am_Nobody]

You need to be assertive enough to shut that kind of thing down, and to never allow yourself to be rushed. If necessary, take a deep breath and count to ten, and start setting up again. I have certainly shut the cab door on panicking dispatchers before. It can feel like you’re being bloody minded/awkward (you aren’t!), but it’s one of the most important skills to master.

I have found a lot of platform dispatchers recently asking me, either mid cab-setup or mid pre-departure announcement whether I am the Guard taking this one out... I tend to flat-out ignore them until I am ready because it really should be bloody obvious. We don't tend to get on random trains and start making announcements or preparing them for our work... sigh. It's just a little infuriating. It's definitely a key skill to master, shutting them out and focusing on your work tasks!

 

[D3WY]

Literally anything. I'm going through this in my training now. Even running a few min late can be a distraction. We are being taught when you're on way to drive you focus on just driving nothing else. If you're running a bit late, you take it as your whole day will run a bit late, ie don't try to catch up.

And Keep driving and personal life separate.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Many already covered. Here are a couple, perhaps already partly covered, but with my thoughts added on them.

Time. During disruption some newer drivers, drivers on driver only operation (DOO) services where time is their responsibility to check, or drivers of guarded trains but who were previously Guards themselves where checking the time is obviously something they had to do a lot previously, can all get caught up in feeling the need to change ends or getting to the front of their train as quickly as possible to reduce the delay.

A common one is at a busy terminus, you may have a train of up to 12 carriages in length. As you start walking up, platform staff spot you and press the Train Ready To Start (TRTS) button to inform the signaller the train is crewed and ready to depart. You may now only just be at the front and getting in the cab, or sometimes only half way up the platform(!), when the starting signal changes to a proceed aspect.

Risks here can range from the Guard on a guarded train now closing the doors and giving you the ready to start bell buzzer code causing you to head off having forgotten to do something simple like setting the headlights or radio up, to the driver of a DOO train closing the doors before they’ve had the ‘Close Doors’ come up on the CD/RA (close doors/right away) indicator.

At a station without dispatch staff, the driver of a DOO train running late could easily set the cab up, look at the time, close the doors and off they go… through a red signal as the route hadn’t yet been set, as they’ve focused on the time and dispatch. Similar incidents have occurred on guarded trains too, where both crew have got on the move as soon as possible due to a delay.

While it feels unnatural at first, ignoring time and any temptation to rush due to any of these factors happening around you is a key ‘skill’. Even if you’ve got a dispatcher giving you the CD/RA indications or a Guard giving you the ready to start bell buzzer code, ignore all these things until you have methodically worked though the cab set up procedure, checked everything and got yourself comfortable.

In a similar vein, the toilet! don’t be tempted to miss an opportunity to use the loo when changing ends on a delayed train. You might think “It’s only a 45 min journey, I can hold it”. Even if the journey goes well, it can soon become uncomfortable starting to get a bit more desperate while trying to focus on driving. Even worse if said disruption that caused the late arrival of the inbound journey holds you up and extends that short 45 minute journey! Better to delay it an extra minute or two than potentially have yourself a completely avoidable incident and kick yourself for not just answering the call of nature!

 

[niceman]

Many already covered. Here are a couple, perhaps already partly covered, but with my thoughts added on them.

Time. During disruption some newer drivers, drivers on driver only operation (DOO) services where time is their responsibility to check, or drivers of guarded trains but who were previously Guards themselves where checking the time is obviously something they had to do a lot previously, can all get caught up in feeling the need to change ends or getting to the front of their train as quickly as possible to reduce the delay.

A common one is at a busy terminus, you may have a train of up to 12 carriages in length. As you start walking up, platform staff spot you and press the Train Ready To Start (TRTS) button to inform the signaller the train is crewed and ready to depart. You may now only just be at the front and getting in the cab, or sometimes only half way up the platform(!), when the starting signal changes to a proceed aspect.

Risks here can range from the Guard on a guarded train now closing the doors and giving you the ready to start bell buzzer code causing you to head off having forgotten to do something simple like setting the headlights or radio up, to the driver of a DOO train closing the doors before they’ve had the ‘Close Doors’ come up on the CD/RA (close doors/right away) indicator.

At a station without dispatch staff, the driver of a DOO train running late could easily set the cab up, look at the time, close the doors and off they go… through a red signal as the route hadn’t yet been set, as they’ve focused on the time and dispatch. Similar incidents have occurred on guarded trains too, where both crew have got on the move as soon as possible due to a delay.

While it feels unnatural at first, ignoring time and any temptation to rush due to any of these factors happening around you is a key ‘skill’. Even if you’ve got a dispatcher giving you the CD/RA indications or a Guard giving you the ready to start bell buzzer code, ignore all these things until you have methodically worked though the cab set up procedure, checked everything and got yourself comfortable.

In a similar vein, the toilet! don’t be tempted to miss an opportunity to use the loo when changing ends on a delayed train. You might think “It’s only a 45 min journey, I can hold it”. Even if the journey goes well, it can soon become uncomfortable starting to get a bit more desperate while trying to focus on driving. Even worse if said disruption that caused the late arrival of the inbound journey holds you up and extends that short 45 minute journey! Better to delay it an extra minute or two than potentially have yourself a completely avoidable incident and kick yourself for not just answering the call of nature!

Some really good stuff here that I didn't know about.

My only point is, why are these dispatchers or other train crew doing things in the hope that the train driver will cut short his safety critical pre departure just for their actions?

If this has happened many times before, have train drivers complained to senior management about it happening?.
Has it not already been picked up as a problem because errors have happened on the journey because the driver was rushed with his pre departure duties?

Thanks

 

[chuff chuff]

Some really good stuff here that I didn't know about.

My only point is, why are these dispatchers or other train crew doing things in the hope that the train driver will cut short his safety critical pre departure just for their actions?

If this has happened many times before, have train drivers complained to senior management about it happening?.
Has it not already been picked up as a problem because errors have happened on the journey because the driver was rushed with his pre departure duties?

Thanks

We were getting a bit of this at Edinburgh waverley dispatches coming closing cab doors while you set up your cab,a quiet word from drivers and probably upstairs stopped all that now they just ask for a wave when finished setting up.

 

[Horizon22]

My only point is, why are these dispatchers or other train crew doing things in the hope that the train driver will cut short his safety critical pre departure just for their actions?

If this has happened many times before, have train drivers complained to senior management about it happening?.
Has it not already been picked up as a problem because errors have happened on the journey because the driver was rushed with his pre departure duties?

They're not. Most dispatchers only have a passing knowledge of what a driver needs to do to set up a cab and are taking actions with only good intentions. They might need to go and dispatch a train on another platform in 5 minutes as an example and can't tell when a driver is fully ready within a cab. As with any role, some staff are better, more understanding and aware than others.

If a driver was "rushed with his pre-departure duties" the rebuke would be "why did you allow yourself to be rushed?" Use of non-technical skills and awareness of risk factors is crucial. Drivers should take the time they require (within reason!)

 

[Ducatist4]

If this is for an answer to an interview question I'd suggest wording your answer very carefully to avoiding making it sound like the potential blame for distraction is the fault of other members of staff. You are all hopefully working for the same company!

 

[43066]

If this has happened many times before, have train drivers complained to senior management about it happening?.
Has it not already been picked up as a problem because errors have happened on the journey because the driver was rushed with his pre departure duties?

Yes, and “words” have been had with repeat offenders.

If something happens on the journey it’s no good blaming the dispatcher - the answer will always be “if you were distracted, you should have waited/taken more time” etc.

If this is for an answer to an interview question I'd suggest wording your answer very carefully to avoiding making it sound like the potential blame for distraction is the fault of other members of staff. You are all hopefully working for the same company!

The key thing is recognising that the distraction exists and dealing with it effectively, rather than worrying about whose fault it is.

Drivers should take the time they require (within reason!)

If you’re distracted starting again is generally the best approach. If you’re distracted again, do the same thing. Rinse and repeat! It takes as long as it takes.

 

[dk1]

So funny that I’ve been prepping trains on/off for over 26 years and without prior notice, that question would stump me Not something i have ever been asked or even think about. They really do stretch things these days.

 

[scotraildriver]

We were getting a bit of this at Edinburgh waverley dispatches coming closing cab doors while you set up your cab,a quiet word from drivers and probably upstairs stopped all that now they just ask for a wave when finished setting up.

And also checking we had put the headlights on. I once had a dispatcher slam my cab door then open it again to tell me the tail lights were on. He was politely informed I hadn't even put my key in yet.

 

[43066]

And also checking we had put the headlights on. I once had a dispatcher slam my cab door then open it again to tell me the tail lights were on. He was politely informed I hadn't even put my key in yet.

We had a guy like that, who also insisted on banging hard on occupied cab doors just before the train was dispatched “to check they were closed”. Very distracting and it really annoyed a lot of people, as you would imagine!

He’s no longer in the role, and not just for that reason.

 

[357]

In a similar vein, the toilet! don’t be tempted to miss an opportunity to use the loo when changing ends on a delayed train. You might think “It’s only a 45 min journey, I can hold it”.

Always call control about this and ensure it is logged correctly.

At my previous TOC one of my regular shifts was a short diagram for the units (PM peak). As a result defective units tended to be on this unit diagram with things like defective toilets.

If both toilets were defective at one of the terminus stations, it was a 7-8 minute walk to the station facilities. Each way.

They had a habit of logging this as "Driver emergency PNB" and I always made a point of changing it to "Train Defect".