Do flexible tickets automatically valid to at other stations in the group, with transfers?

[LYuen]

For major hubs like London, there are London Terminals and London Thameslink as origin/destination printed on train tickets to reduce confusion.
Though some ticket vendors still issue ticket to a specific stations, e.g. LNER

LNER issuing Google Wallet passes with wrong origin station

Like many others, I have used LNER to buy tickets during the current 10% back offer. One of the tickets I bought was from London Thameslink to Brighton. I specifically searched for London Thameslink as the journey origin, and double checked that it was showing as the fare origin when buying the...

www.railforums.co.uk

Though I am interested in stations groups for smaller stations which require change of trains.
For example, Manchester for Manchester - London ticket

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Manchester Victoria is part of the origin group - if the return - any permitted route ticket explicitly says Manchester Piccadilly as origin, is the ticket valid for a connection from Victoria to Piccadilly on TPE services, or Deansgate to Piccadilly on Northern, before taking the Avanti train at Piccadilly

Or in a different example, Chester to Llandudno Junction

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

The same ticket is also valid for Bache to Llandudno, taking MerseyRail to Chester, Avanti to Llandudno Junction, then TfW to Llandudno?
Also, as long as this being the same ticket, Trainline based platforms do not sell e-ticket if the origin is Bache, while LNER allows.
Looks like this will add to the confusion if an e-ticket for Chester to Llandudno Junction is checked by a guard on MerseyRail.

 

[Haywain]

Or in a different example, Chester to Llandudno Junction

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

The same ticket is also valid for Bache to Llandudno, taking MerseyRail to Chester, Avanti to Llandudno Junction, then TfW to Llandudno?
Also, as long as this being the same ticket, Trainline based platforms do not sell e-ticket if the origin is Bache, while LNER allows.
Looks like this will add to the confusion if an e-ticket for Chester to Llandudno Junction is checked by a guard on MerseyRail.

There are no station groups involved in this ticket - you are looking at BRFares.com and misunderstanding what you see. Many fares are priced to/from station 'clusters' which is what is happening here, but this does not provide any additional validity and is not valid to start at Bache and then travel to Chester and on to Llandudno Junction or on to Llandudno. Should you wish to do that you would require a Bache to Llandudno ticket which covers the full journey.

 

[Watershed]

For major hubs like London, there are London Terminals and London Thameslink as origin/destination printed on train tickets to reduce confusion.

It's not a question of reducing confusion (if anything, issuing tickets to an individual station could be argued as being "simpler"). It's just how tickets have always historically been issued, to give passengers maximum flexibility in terms of where they can travel to/from.

Though some ticket vendors still issue ticket to a specific stations, e.g. LNER

LNER issuing Google Wallet passes with wrong origin station

Like many others, I have used LNER to buy tickets during the current 10% back offer. One of the tickets I bought was from London Thameslink to Brighton. I specifically searched for London Thameslink as the journey origin, and double checked that it was showing as the fare origin when buying the...

www.railforums.co.uk

That is an issue related to the way LNER issues the Google Wallet pass version of an eTicket. The underlying ticket is still sold to the group station; the eTicket PDF and email confirmation reflect this.

Though I am interested in stations groups for smaller stations which require change of trains.
For example, Manchester for Manchester - London ticket

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Manchester Victoria is part of the origin group - if the return - any permitted route ticket explicitly says Manchester Piccadilly as origin, is the ticket valid for a connection from Victoria to Piccadilly on TPE services, or Deansgate to Piccadilly on Northern, before taking the Avanti train at Piccadilly

Yes, that would be fine. The ticket is issued to the Manchester Stations group, which includes Piccadilly, Victoria, Oxford Road and Deansgate (as shown in your BR Fares expert mode link).

This means the fare is valid for travel to/from any one of those stations, even if that means taking trains between members of the Manchester Stations group (e.g. Victoria/Deansgate to Piccadilly). You are not forced to travel to/from the nearest station to London.

Or in a different example, Chester to Llandudno Junction

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

The same ticket is also valid for Bache to Llandudno, taking MerseyRail to Chester, Avanti to Llandudno Junction, then TfW to Llandudno?

No, it's not valid from Bache. Chester isn't a station group, so you can't travel to/from other stations just because they are nearby.

You can start/finish at an intermediate station (e.g. Shotton), but Bache is not on a permitted route from Chester to Llandudno Junction so you can't travel via there, or start/finish your journey there.

Also, as long as this being the same ticket, Trainline based platforms do not sell e-ticket if the origin is Bache, while LNER allows.

Trainline follow their own rules for when they offer eTickets; they seem to have acquired some sort of 'grandfather' rights to this (I'm not sure how). It's not clear what exact logic they use, but it could include not offering eTickets if the itinerary includes Merseyrail services.

LNER and all other retailers follow the industry data feed, RCS, which tells them which fulfilment method(s) are available for each fare. Bache to Llandudno is enabled for eTicket fulfilment in RCS, so they correctly offer it as an eTicket.

Looks like this will add to the confusion if an e-ticket for Chester to Llandudno Junction is checked by a guard on MerseyRail.

The confusion would be because the ticket would be invalid. It would not be because of the format.

 

[LYuen]

There are no station groups involved in this ticket - you are looking at BRFares.com and misunderstanding what you see. Many fares are priced to/from station 'clusters' which is what is happening here, but this does not provide any additional validity and is not valid to start at Bache and then travel to Chester and on to Llandudno Junction or on to Llandudno. Should you wish to do that you would require a Bache to Llandudno ticket which covers the full journey.

I understand the £26.20 SVR return ticket will not be valid from Bache and Llandudno, but how about the £26.60 SVR ticket (Q123-Q507)?
is https://www.brfares.com/!expert?orig=BAC&dest=LLD is this Bache to Llandudno ticket same as the £26.60 ticket above? Or this also depends on which stations I select while buying?

 

[Watershed]

I understand the £26.20 SVR return ticket will not be valid from Bache and Llandudno, but how about the £26.60 SVR ticket (Q123-Q507)?
is https://www.brfares.com/!expert?orig=BAC&dest=LLD is this Bache to Llandudno ticket same as the £26.60 ticket above? Or this also depends on which stations I select while buying?

I can see where you are coming from, but flows (e.g. Qxxx, Kxxx) are not the same as station groups (e.g. Manchester Stations).

Flows are merely used for the convenience of Pricing Managers, so they don't have to individually set fares between every single station in the country. They are not advertised to the travelling public and have no direct relevance to the validity of tickets. Meanwhile, station groups are publicly advertised, and tickets are issued to/from them. You can travel to/from any member of the station group that your ticket is issued to/from.

A ticket from Bache to Llandudno is different to a ticket from Chester to Llandudno. The fact they are both priced as part of the same flow doesn't mean that you can buy a Chester to Llandudno ticket, and then use it from Bache. You would have to buy it from Bache for this to be the case.

 

[LYuen]

Flows are merely used for the convenience of Pricing Managers, so they don't have to individually set fares between every single station in the country. They are not advertised to the travelling public and have no direct relevance to the validity of tickets. Meanwhile, station groups are publicly advertised, and tickets are issued to/from them. You can travel to/from any member of the station group that your ticket is issued to/from.

A ticket from Bache to Llandudno is different to a ticket from Chester to Llandudno. The fact they are both priced as part of the same flow doesn't mean that you can buy a Chester to Llandudno ticket, and then use it from Bache. You would have to buy it from Bache for this to be the case.

Interesting, you might saved me from a big mistake.
If I have the £26.60 ticket to Llandudno Junction, can I ask the train manager to alter the destination to Llandudno (and vice versa)? Or will they just let go as there is no price different?

 

[Watershed]

Interesting, you might saved me from a big mistake.
If I have the £26.60 ticket to Llandudno Junction, can I ask the train manager to alter the destination to Llandudno (and vice versa)? Or will they just let go as there is no price different?

You can ask them, and they may say it is fine, or they may (try to) issue you with a zero fare overdistance excess. In theory they could say you need to buy a new ticket for that section.

But if you don't get their permission (or an excess or new ticket) before leaving Llandudno Junction, you are travelling without a valid ticket, with all the associated implications - i.e. potentially being forced to buy a new Anytime Single or being prosecuted under section 103 of the Railway Consolidation Clauses Act 1845.

The fact that the fare is the same to a further station does not mean you can simply continue beyond your ticket's destination. Several people have been convicted of offences such as the above, despite not causing the train company any loss. It's ridiculous but it does illustrate the fact that you have to be careful.