Do LNER Seatfrog upgrades include a seat + other questions.

[F Great Eastern]

I've just won an auction for an LNER upgrade on Seatfrog.

However there is no mention of the seat reservation on the journey I have won the auction does.

It does have a three digit reference on the ticket 'Lxx' which looks suspiciously like a coach and seat number without explcitily saying that is what it is. Is that the case? Or should I book myself a seat via the LNER reserve a seat feature?

 

[Watershed]

Yes, that would be the reserved seat. I know that at one stage, SeatFrog used to have dedicated seats that were effectively theirs to sell/upgrade into. Not sure whether it still works like that but in any event, you would definitely get a reserved seat.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Yeah, that is what I thought, I haven't used Seatfrog for ages and it used to say the seat number explicitly. Why they don't make it more clear and just say that it's the seat number I don't know.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, that would be the reserved seat. I know that at one stage, SeatFrog used to have dedicated seats that were effectively theirs to sell/upgrade into. Not sure whether it still works like that but in any event, you would definitely get a reserved seat.

They're often bad seats though like the ones with no window at the vehicle end. So the OP might want to check it on a seating plan and if they don't like it reserve another.

 

[ainsworth74]

They're often bad seats though like the ones with no window at the vehicle end. So the OP might want to check it on a seating plan and if they don't like it reserve another.

L 19 is fine on LNER. I used that very seat on Sunday (well, probably not the very seat but an equivalent). It's got a window next to it but you're in the middle of the window so the pillar is in your eyeline but it's level with the back of the seat in front so no issue.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Just checked on a seatmap and the seat I have on Seatfrog (f that is what the below means) is normally a priority seat, so I guess extra legroom?

 

[Dirty_Mac]

Just checked on a seatmap and the seat I have on Seatfrog (f that is what the below means) is normally a priority seat, so I guess extra legroom?

Priority seat usually means that the tables fold up

 

[F Great Eastern]

Priority seat usually means that the tables fold up

How sturdy are they?

On a slightly different topic if I was to miss my Seatfrog booked leg because my earlier train leg on an advance booking is delayed, what happens with the upgrade? Does it carry over, am I refunded or what?

 

[ainsworth74]

How sturdy are they?

Very, it's more a flap at the edge of the table rather than the whole table lifting up. The table itself is still mounted to the floor on the window side and its still thick and chunky. I think you get a bit more "bounce" from them as they're only anchored on one side but they are very sturdy. I certainly have no issues sitting in one. There isn't any extra legroom (that I've noticed) as the 1st class seats already have plenty.

On a slightly different topic if I was to miss my Seatfrog booked leg because my earlier train leg on an advance booking is delayed, what happens with the upgrade? Does it carry over, am I refunded or what?

As far as I'm aware you can use it on the next train in first class but won't have a seat reservation. You can make reservations on the LNER website for free with a seat selector up to five minutes before departure so you could just make your own new reservation.

 

[F Great Eastern]

As far as I'm aware you can use it on the next train in first class but won't have a seat reservation. You can make reservations on the LNER website for free with a seat selector up to five minutes before departure so you could just make your own new reservation.

You see that's curious, because when I used SeatFrog on Cross Country before on an advance and this situation occurred, I was told
'You can only use your Seatfrog upgrade on the selected service, so if you miss your train, unfortunately, you won’t be able to use your upgrade on a later service."

Now it's quite possible someone got mixed up between the rules for someone who paid for an upgrade for the whole journey and missed the train because they arrived late at the station at the start of their journey, as opposed to someone who was delayed because of a previous leg on an advance ticket, but the staff member I dealt with was insistent it was a rule for all occasions.

I was given the option of either returning to standard class on board the train or staying in First and paying an excess, or having action taken against me for not having a valid ticket. I went back to standard class in the end and just wrote the money off as I couldn't be bothered arguing with customer relations for what was £10.

So it would be good to have something to point to if it happened again. For the journey in question I have an 8 minute connection, so a small delay on the first leg could be fatal.

 

[ainsworth74]

Hmm I might be getting myself confused between a missed connection and where the upgraded train is cancelled.

 

[Mike395]

You see that's curious, because when I used SeatFrog on Cross Country before on an advance and this situation occurred, I was told
'You can only use your Seatfrog upgrade on the selected service, so if you miss your train, unfortunately, you won’t be able to use your upgrade on a later service."

Now it's quite possible someone got mixed up between the rules for someone who paid for an upgrade for the whole journey and missed the train because they arrived late at the station at the start of their journey, as opposed to someone who was delayed because of a previous leg on an advance ticket, but the staff member I dealt with was insistent it was a rule for all occasions.

I was given the option of either returning to standard class on board the train or staying in First and paying an excess, or having action taken against me for not having a valid ticket. I went back to standard class in the end and just wrote the money off as I couldn't be bothered arguing with customer relations for what was £10.

So it would be good to have something to point to if it happened again. For the journey in question I have an 8 minute connection, so a small delay on the first leg could be fatal.

I think it (confusingly) might depend on operator - Seatfrog themselves aren't clear one way or the other. I've had no issue at all on LNER using my Seatfrog on a later train following disruption elsewhere causing me to miss the connection in to it.

That or CrossCountry were just wrong

 

[Watershed]

You see that's curious, because when I used SeatFrog on Cross Country before on an advance and this situation occurred, I was told
'You can only use your Seatfrog upgrade on the selected service, so if you miss your train, unfortunately, you won’t be able to use your upgrade on a later service."

Now it's quite possible someone got mixed up between the rules for someone who paid for an upgrade for the whole journey and missed the train because they arrived late at the station at the start of their journey, as opposed to someone who was delayed because of a previous leg on an advance ticket, but the staff member I dealt with was insistent it was a rule for all occasions.

I was given the option of either returning to standard class on board the train or staying in First and paying an excess, or having action taken against me for not having a valid ticket. I went back to standard class in the end and just wrote the money off as I couldn't be bothered arguing with customer relations for what was £10.

So it would be good to have something to point to if it happened again. For the journey in question I have an 8 minute connection, so a small delay on the first leg could be fatal.

I can't immediately see anything that addresses the situation of a missed connection in SeatFrog's FAQs, but it's pretty simple as far as I can see - the upgrade is part of your ticket (it entitles you to travel in first class), it is only valid on your booked train, and thus NRCoT 9.4 entitles you to also use it on a later train if you miss your connection:

Where you are using a Ticket valid on a specific train service or train services (such as an “advance” Ticket) and you miss a service because a previous connecting train service was delayed, you will be able to travel on the next train service provided by the Train Company with whom you were booked without penalty.

The "without penalty" part to me would include not being forced to downgrade to a lower class of travel. I don't see why a SeatFrog upgrade plus standard class ticket would qualify any differently to an Advance ticket - note that the NRCoT isn't exhaustive in referring to Advances, it just says "such as".

 

[F Great Eastern]

I think it (confusingly) might depend on operator - Seatfrog themselves aren't clear one way or the other. I've had no issue at all on LNER using my Seatfrog on a later train following disruption elsewhere causing me to miss the connection in to it.

That or CrossCountry were just wrong

Seems to be quite widespread wording though that Cross Country are using?

 

[yorkie]

I think the reference to "missing your train" is where the customer didn't get to their origin station in time.

It doesn't mean missing a connection.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Just checked on a seatmap and the seat I have on Seatfrog (f that is what the below means) is normally a priority seat, so I guess extra legroom?

View attachment 178068

Question for the forum hive mind: Having a reservation in a priority seat if you're not a priority person puts you in a difficult position should someone with a need for the seat show up and the train is full and standing?

 

[yorkie]

Question for the forum hive mind: Having a reservation in a priority seat if you're not a priority person puts you in a difficult position should someone with a need for the seat show up and the train is full and standing?

I disagree; furthermore, there is no definition of what a "priority person" would be.

These seats typically offer extra leg room, which may be essential for a particularly tall person.

 

[Puffing Devil]

OK - let's say a heavily pregnant lady shows up. You're able-bodied in the "priority" seat. The similarly reserved seat over the aisle is not marked for "priority" use. You're asked to give up your seat. Do you?

What if the over the aisle seat was not reserved?

There is a moral dimension to this question and I wouldn't want to be placed in a difficult position.

The solution would be to allow these seats to be reserved only by those who claim to need them.

 

[F Great Eastern]

All worked out well. The train connecting into it was five minutes late at one point so became a bit scary but caught up the time.

My train left Peterborough a full minute early! (which RTT backs up!). Interesting minimum connection time doesn't allow for that as seems to happen often at Peterborough so you only really have seven minutes. Was comfortable but might not have been.

 

[kkong]

L 19 is fine on LNER. I used that very seat on Sunday (well, probably not the very seat but an equivalent). It's got a window next to it but you're in the middle of the window so the pillar is in your eyeline but it's level with the back of the seat in front so no issue.

L58 and K01 (9-car) / D01 (5-car) are the LNER Azuma First Class seats which have no windows at all.

You can see a photo of K01 in the article linked below.

https://busandtrainuser.com/2019/05/17/new-trains-into-service-in-2019-part-4-azumas/

 

[35B]

OK - let's say a heavily pregnant lady shows up. You're able-bodied in the "priority" seat. The similarly reserved seat over the aisle is not marked for "priority" use. You're asked to give up your seat. Do you?

What if the over the aisle seat was not reserved?

There is a moral dimension to this question and I wouldn't want to be placed in a difficult position.

The solution would be to allow these seats to be reserved only by those who claim to need them.

Define "need". Setting aside the legal implications of agreeing that legroom is inadequate in many seats, what categories are or are not eligible?

If you say "disabled" (measured by eligibility for the Disabled Persons Railcard), what does that mean for the fully ambulant but deaf traveller? And where does that leave someone like me (6'6", able bodied), who might actively need that extra legroom. And none of these consider the pregnant lady in the example, or the elderly person I often book travel for who needs assistance, but would fiercely deny that he is "disabled".

LNER broadly get it right; they block out the priority seats and they have to be applied for separately - which allows a reasonableness test to be applied.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Define "need". Setting aside the legal implications of agreeing that legroom is inadequate in many seats, what categories are or are not eligible?

If you say "disabled" (measured by eligibility for the Disabled Persons Railcard), what does that mean for the fully ambulant but deaf traveller?

Deafness qualifies you for that Railcard; my Dad has one for that reason.

And where does that leave someone like me (6'6", able bodied), who might actively need that extra legroom. And none of these consider the pregnant lady in the example, or the elderly person I often book travel for who needs assistance, but would fiercely deny that he is "disabled".

I wouldn't consider myself disabled, but I can't sit with my leg bent for a long time due to previous DVTs - it swells up quite painfully - hence I need extra legroom. I can however stand for as long as is necessary. I always therefore occupy priority seats where possible, but would give them up to someone who genuinely needed that specific seat more than me. (If a non-priority seat was available then I probably wouldn't, though. depending on whether that person specifically needed the extra space or not or simply needed *a* seat).

We would have a reasonable human conversation about the matter and our relative needs, and it would be resolved, which may or may not result in me giving up the seat depending on our relative need for it. If anyone just told me to shift and was unwilling to have that discussion, or was in any way rude about the matter (unless it was fairly obvious that that rudeness was as a result of a disability), then they'd be invited to fetch the guard if they wished.

LNER broadly get it right; they block out the priority seats and they have to be applied for separately - which allows a reasonableness test to be applied.

I had a play with the LNER app and what they appear to be doing is blocking out *some* of the priority seats for selection but not others - it seems to be about a third of them. However the ones that aren't blocked aren't shown as priority seats (I just happen to know they are, and this can be seen from the PDF seat maps). This (like most things LNER do with regard to reservations and fares) is really quite unhelpful, to be honest; better would be allowing selection but if you did pick one you would get a popup explaining what that meant and inviting you to select another one instead if you preferred not to potentially have to give it up.

 

[35B]

We would have a reasonable human conversation about the matter and our relative needs, and it would be resolved, which may or may not result in me giving up the seat depending on our relative need for it. If anyone just told me to shift and was unwilling to have that discussion, or was in any way rude about the matter (unless it was fairly obvious that that rudeness was as a result of a disability), then they'd be invited to fetch the guard if they wished.

Precisely - but how do you then codify that for constraints that are below the level of constituting disability?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Precisely - but how do you then codify that for constraints that are below the level of constituting disability?

You don't need to codify it, you have a reasonable human conversation. I have actually once (and only once) asked if someone would swap with me so I could sit in the priority row because I was making a particularly long journey on a Northern 195 (on which the non-priority rows are rather tight, and you can't stretch your leg out if someone is sat opposite) and they agreed to swap, if they hadn't then I'd have left it at that and probably stood if my leg started to swell. That sort of reasonable conversation, polite and without entitlement.

 

[Dirty_Mac]

This is way off topic