Does Bob Crow have a clue?

[EM2]

Quote from a Guardian story:
"If Network Rail are running more trains and are so flush with cash, why are they taking the risk of another major disaster like Hatfield, Potters Bar or Grayrigg by cutting back the vital track renewals programme by 28% and axing key engineering jobs?"

Does someone want to tell him that Network Rail doesn't run the trains?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jun/03/network-rail-profit-debt

 

[FusionRail]

I suppose stuff posted in papers isnt always necessarily the correct wording.

 

[First class]

He probably means is creating the capacity to run more trains. Network Rail sort of are allowing the trains to run, and control train movements, so they are, in a theoretical way, 'running the trains'.

 

[ungreat]

DO NOT believe ANYTHING in the papers about the railways..it's always tarted up by imbeciles who know little or nothing!

 

[Mintona]

DO NOT believe ANYTHING in the papers about the railways..it's always tarted up by imbeciles who know little or nothing!

Uber-greed. I think what Mr. Crow said and what has been written are probably different.

 

[First class]

I just wish he wouldn't text me at 8.30am telling me to vote when I'd rather sleep.

 

[Mintona]

I just wish he wouldn't text me at 8.30am telling me to vote when I'd rather sleep.

'greed with that was well

 

[EM2]

Uber-greed. I think what Mr. Crow said and what has been written are probably different.

Possibly, but I read the same quote in two different papers (owned by two different companies).
As a further example, he has said that the recent industrial action on the Victoria Line is because VL trains do not have a mechanism to stop doors being opened on the non-platform side, and this affects safety.
Does he not realise that these trains are now over 40 years old, and it's a little bit late to be bleating about it now?

 

[Mintona]

He has probably been quoted out of context then. Bob Crow has been doing this for a number of years now, and I think he knows what he is talking about.

 

[Mojo]

I've spoken to a few people at work about this who agree with me, but does anyone else wish for a more "moderate" union than the RMT? I'm talking political views here, not trade relations.

I know there are other unions out there, ATCU and general unions like Unite, but the only unions my company recognises are the RMT, Aslef and Tssa. Aslef is for drivers and Tssa is more for "white collar" workers, so that leaves me with the RMT or nobody. I don't agree with the RMT and as a result, as a non-safety critical member of staff I have decided not to join any union.

Bob Crow is a well known communist and I wonder exactly how many RMT members voted for Bob's political party yesterday.

 

[Mintona]

I don't know how Bob's political party is to be honest. But he texted me very early on telling me to say no to the EU in my vote. I don't need to be told who to vote for, I just want protection if management do something I don't like or think is fair.

 

[Tom B]

Possibly, but I read the same quote in two different papers (owned by two different companies).
As a further example, he has said that the recent industrial action on the Victoria Line is because VL trains do not have a mechanism to stop doors being opened on the non-platform side, and this affects safety.
Does he not realise that these trains are now over 40 years old, and it's a little bit late to be bleating about it now?

Particularly stupid since the replacement 09 stock are in build and there's probably no way of CSDE being installed any quicker... :roll:

 

[Mojo]

I've heard that the Victoria line thing is less to do with the fact that CSDE isn't fitted but more to do with the fact that Train Operators are being more harshly treated over incorrect door opening now than they were before.

 

[EM2]

I've heard that the Victoria line thing is less to do with the fact that CSDE isn't fitted but more to do with the fact that Train Operators are being more harshly treated over incorrect door opening now than they were before.

According to rumour, that's the *real* reason but it's not what the RMT are saying in public

 

[jon0844]

Why does the RMT protect a driver that does something wrong, and potentially dangerous? Surely doing that hurts the union when it comes to trying to defend someone that is unfairly treated or whatever?

 

[charley_17/7]

I'm rather unhappy (as an RMT member) that No2EU got 26,000ish votes in the North West MEP elections, when the BNP beat the Greens by just 500.

Most wanted to beat the 'real' nasties, so smaller parties (like Respect and Libertas.eu), lent their support to the Greens.

I am ashamed to say we are partly responsible for the mess we are now in.

 

[merlodlliw]

He has probably been quoted out of context then. Bob Crow has been doing this for a number of years now, and I think he knows what he is talking about.

He was live on the today programme today at about 7.15a.m. with Boris,

Well the pair of them were a comedy act, As for Mr Crow, some of his quotes
were nothing to do with the dispute, did he feel sorry for the public, not a word, it was we want 5% pay rise. With inflation now zero, and miliions out of work the word clue comes to mind.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Personally I've never had time for Bob Crow to be honest, every time I see him he bangs on about renationalisation and nothing else, in this instance demanding for 5% pay cuts in the current climate is ridicolous - as someone who has lost their job through the recession and knowing serveral others who have, I'd be happy just to have a job, wouldn't be going on strike about not getting a pay rise right now.

 

[djw1981]

I don't know how Bob's political party is to be honest. But he texted me very early on telling me to say no to the EU in my vote. I don't need to be told who to vote for, I just want protection if management do something I don't like or think is fair.

Was it vote 'No to EU' or Vote "No2EU" If the latter then see the top candidate in London and see the blog.

 

[O L Leigh]

Why does the RMT protect a driver that does something wrong, and potentially dangerous? Surely doing that hurts the union when it comes to trying to defend someone that is unfairly treated or whatever?

Would you like to lose your job by making one little mistake...?

No driver sets out to do something dangerous like stopping short, opening the doors on the wrong side or having a SPAD. These things come about due to many factors, but they are all just mistakes.

How many signals have I safely passed in the course of my career to date? How many times have I safely stopped at a red? How many times have I stopped at the correct point along the platform and released the doors on the right side? And what if one day in the future I make a little slip?

The rail industry is rightly intolerant of mistakes that affect safety and we get it drummed into us repeatedly. However, mistakes do sometimes happen and, unlike many other jobs, you can't just go back and correct them. So, when a driver, signaller or other member of staff slips up it is right that we get union representation. Lets not forget that we're just talking about mistakes here and not deliberate acts of misconduct.

O L Leigh

 

[djw1981]

Make a mistake - suspension discipline and training
Make a mistake and cover it up - dismissal?

I thionk the issue here is the cover up not the mistake.

 

[delt1c]

The right wing media has done some great spin in the last 20 years. had it not been for unions the ordinary working person would be working 80 hr + week over 7 days and tipping their cloth cap to managers.
Its easy to to quote negatives, but stop take a look through the history books and see what unions have won for the working person over the years and then think before knocking the unions. Then take a look at top managment and see what they have awarded themselves over the years.
Funny thing is the union demands get bashed and the bosses get praised . reason spin. Bosses control the spin . Just remember if werent for unions we wouldnt be able to post our opinions on here as we would still be in the dark ages, sorry forgot ordinary workes have even been sacked for speaking out on the web.

 

[Mojo]

Isn't it funny that the right wing says the media is left wing, and that the left wing says the media is right wing?

I am fully supportive of individual rights to collective bargaining, but without knowing the full story can't comment, but would like to say that some unions in the past have been taking the mickey with their demands for goodness knows what. Being a relative newcomer to the railway it is definately the best industry to be working in with loads of benefits just not offered in other industries.

If Norwich Union announced job cuts or pay freezes then the unions wouldn't do anything too radical as to make the company go out of business. If Stagecoach, First, et al. went out of business then the Government would take over them and the employees would still have a job, I get the feeling the unions are taking advantage of this rather unique situation.

 

[merlodlliw]

As an ex trade union member and Father Of The Chapel of Sogat & Natsopa, TUs, we had a few strange TU Leaders, however with Mr Crow appearing on TV yesterday afternoon wearing his Cuba Revolution Tee shirt,blaming everyone
but stopping short of blaming the public, but never a word of sorry for the public, then Aslef Gen Sec saying the strike was unwanted, it all gets
stuffed.

I recall the Sun being refused to be loaded on trains due to politics of the NUR in the 70s. Since then every daily newspaper is delivered by road.

Scargill killed off the NUM, Crow will do the same, I fully agree with unions,but
in every negotiation you never get 100%, Crow loves Cuba & China, how many TUs operate freely there.

 

[delt1c]

Who owns the media?
Yes the unions demands may seem excesive, but usually this is to allow for compremise, yet managments offers are usually set in stone if they were allowed.Unions are there to represent members needs and also to defend them. Without unions the working person would have no rights.
Strange how many union bashers try to jion a union as soon as they have a problem and expect instant representation.

 

[Tom C]

but does anyone else wish for a more "moderate" union than the RMT?

No?

Why would I want a union who will let my company get away with MORE?

I want a union who will look out for my interests and strongly defend me and in my post the only choice is the RMT.

Being a relative newcomer to the railway it is definately the best industry to be working in with loads of benefits just not offered in other industries.

Thanks to strong unions!

 

[Mojo]

I don't mean a union that would let the company get away with more, but one that is perhaps not run by Communists.

 

[Tom C]

but one that is perhaps not run by Communists.

Does it matter who it is run by?

I am not interested in peoples politics, all I want is a service and so far the RMT hasn't failed. There are moderate unions who represent my grade and all they ever achieved over the past 10 years is being given the change negotiate solely on one occassion and then saw fit to sell our terms & conditions down the river for virtually no gain!

Just what I want.

Needless to say, they don't have many members on my company any more.

 

[Mojo]

In my opinion it does matter. It's clear where some people's politics are and how it gets in the way of the way they do business. If it didn't matter then the BBC wouldn't impose terms on how their staff deal with political reporting. [I was going to say and the police ban the BNP, but that's slightly different]

I am slightly concerned of the growing suspicion of railway management and perhaps it's just me but I appreciate the business side of things (even if it was a state-owned railway) and that I disagree with some of the salary and conditions changes that the unions have demanded.

This isn't a case of 'what have the Romans ever done for us' syndrome but more to do with the constraints the various unions have placed on the railways over the past however many years.

 

[AlexS]

If you get it wrong in a safety critical job you could kill somebody.

No matter how many times you get it right the one times the charm.

You can stop at a million red signals but it's the million and 1th where you don't and say have a fatal accident, or open the doors off the platform and some numpty falls out and breaks a leg that is the killer.

Therefore there are the same things as for car drivers IE points on the licence to deal with this.

It was put nicely elsewhere - do the job wrong and you get points on the licence. You can't ignore it when it does happen but most points are not immediately disabling, it's just don't do it again territory, like a first speeding offence.

Do the job wrong and lie about it or not report it - you get serious action.

It's the same in my job - I don't deal with safety critical train movements, but what I do is very sensitive in a legal and PR context and still involves working with the general public and if I make mistakes it can have serious implications both for my customers and my employer.

If you have justifiable reasoning, appeal it.

But on the basis that SPADs and other similar incidents have caused fatalities in the past then I don't think people can complain if they have such an incident and it isn't just brushed under the carpet.