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Duke of Gloucester valve gear, do all steam locos have similar arrangement?

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PaxmanValenta

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Hi
Forgive me as I'm a beginner on understanding steam locomotives. I saw a footplate video of the Duke of Gloucester 71000 and how the driver regulated the speed and power by turning the valve gear from the cab rather than just using the regulator. This looked a really good efficient way of regulating the power.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GHuYeYttBb8

Do all steam locomotives even the tiny ones like the Peckett have controls for operating the valve gear? If not what other systems do they use?
 
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455driver

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If you mean the red wheel then yes all steam locos have it, it controls the amount of time the valves are open to allow steam into the cylinders (called the cutoff). In simple terms you want to let the minimum amount of steam into the cylinders and allow that steam to expand to provide the power you want thus using less fuel and water, rather than using the maximum amount of steam which would then expand as it exits the chimney.

TBH I am more concerned that a steam train driver on the mainline doesn't know the difference between AWS and TPWS! :shock:
 

AndrewE

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Look at Wikipedia (among thousands of other sources)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutoff_(steam_engine)
and note that all sorts of reversing gear was used to control slide valves or sliding piston valves, but the Duke has Caprotti valvegear (worth looking up too, try http://www.dukeofgloucester.co.uk/?section=locomotive&page=British+Caprotti+Valve+Gear) in which a cunning variable gearbox mechanism works poppet valves, more like internal combustion engine inlet and exhaust valves.
(and another thing, for anything like shunting a pole reverser (like a signal box lever) is infinitely preferable to the red hand-wheel that you have to turn about a thousand tmes every time you change direction!)
 
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Taunton

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Hi
Forgive me as I'm a beginner on understanding steam locomotives. I saw a footplate video of the Duke of Gloucester 71000 and how the driver regulated the speed and power by turning the valve gear from the cab rather than just using the regulator. This looked a really good efficient way of regulating the power.
We're glad to share the understanding. Someone has to take all the knowledge on for the future.

All conventional steam locos have both a regulator and valve gear, and are controlled by a combination of the two. It's notable that other forms of transport have a similar approach, cars with accelerator and gearbox, and propeller aircraft with throttle and propeller pitch control. All allow different proportions of the power of the throttle to be transmitted, are adjusted as speed increases, and are used to reverse the direction of travel - and have different drivers handle them in different ways they feel are "best".

The main valve control in a steam loco is to switch the steam supply to the cylinders on and off, in a way that combines the functions of the inlet/exhaust valves in a car engine and the car's gearbox for changing ratios as speed rises. Unlike a car with say five fixed gears, the steam loco is infinitely variable, normally measured as a "cut-off", that is how much of the piston travel the steam is opened before it is stopped and expansion allowed to do the rest. Typical figures are 75% when you start off, reduced to 25% or even less at high speed. You can advance things if you wish, say to 30% or 35% at speed, and you will get a bit more power, but will also be disproportionately wasteful of steam, which of course the fireman won't thank you for. A bit like driving a car on the motorway in 3rd gear.

In the 19th century the control in the cab was a large lever (the "pole" as a GWR man would say) which went forward and backwards, fully forward to start, fully back to go backwards, with neutral ("mid gear") in the middle. This got progressively harder to use, especially at speed with a full steam flow, as locos became more powerful, so screw gear, the wheel you noticed, became standard on larger locomotives (smaller ones kept lever reverse to the end). Beyond that, a few locos in Britain, and more overseas where they were even larger such as in the USA, had power reversers, generally by a small steam cylinder, but some US oddballs used compressed air from the braking supply. Power reverse had a nuisance the others did not, that it would tend to "creep" towards Full Gear (that 75%) and have to be regularly adjusted as you went along. The Bulleid Pacifics of the Southern were notorious for this.

The actual mechanical arrangement of the gear mechanisms were of various types. The GWR pretty much always stuck with Stephenson gear, where the connecting rods look straightforward. The other three companies, and BR Standards, moved on to Walschaerts, with many fiddly outside links to it, while the Duke of Gloucester you noticed was one of the few British locos to use Caprotti gear. each type had its own pluses and minuses, and supporters. Bulleid inevitably did something completely different on his Pacifics and used a series of oversized bicycle chains to connect the mechanism, sealed (supposedly) inside an oil filled box. There, now that's been said. Stand by for incoming from the Southern supporters.
 

coppercapped

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We're glad to share the understanding. Someone has to take all the knowledge on for the future.

The actual mechanical arrangement of the gear mechanisms were of various types. The GWR pretty much always stuck with Stephenson gear, where the connecting rods look straightforward. The other three companies, and BR Standards, moved on to Walschaerts.

Ah-hem! Not quite! The GWR four cylinder locomotives used Walschaerts gear. One of the reasons was that there wasn't room to get four slip eccentrics and a cranked axle between the frames. The first, Churchward's No. 40, used a cross drive arrangement with the motion being taken off the other inside cylinder, but the later ones were built with separate gears for each side.

Being very fussy(!) some of the 'absorbed' locomotives had Walschaerts (and other) gears which the 95XX panniers also used. These were a bit odd - although a pure GWR design they were all built by BR!
 
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Taunton

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The GWR four cylinder locomotives used Walschaerts gear....
Yes yes yes, I'm aware the 4-cyls had inside Walschaerts (which you would never know without going underneath them in a pit). But I was trying to condense a 4-year honours Mechanical Engineering course into 5 paragraphs :)

the 94XX panniers also used. These were a bit odd - although a pure GWR design they were all built by BR!
There was quite a lot of pre-nationalisation design built in the earlier nationalisation years, including many of the Hawksworth-pattern coaches. What was a bit odd was these 210 locos (designed by Hawksworth pre-nationalisation) got built well after diesel shunters became the loco of choice for the work they did much of (the last, 3409, was built at the end of 1956, by which time there were many hundreds of class 08 shunters delivered), and furthermore they were not built by BR at Swindon to keep them going, but contracted out to outside builders for hard cash - these last ones were built by Yorkshire Engine in Sheffield.
 
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coppercapped

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Yes yes yes, I'm aware the 4-cyls had inside Walschaerts (which you would never know without going underneath them in a pit). But I was trying to condense a 4-year honours Mechanical Engineering course into 5 paragraphs :)


There was quite a lot of pre-nationalisation design built in the earlier nationalisation years, including many of the Hawksworth-pattern coaches. What was a bit odd was these 210 locos (designed by Hawksworth pre-nationalisation) got built well after diesel shunters became the loco of choice for the work they did much of (the last, 3409, was built at the end of 1956, by which time there were many hundreds of class 08 shunters delivered), and furthermore they were not built by BR at Swindon to keep them going, but contracted out to outside builders for hard cash - these last ones were built by Yorkshire Engine in Sheffield.

Sorry - typo! :oops: I meant the 15XX panniers not, as I wrote, 95XX. The 15XX had outside Walschaerts valve gear and only 10 were built. One survived and is at, if I remember correctly, the Severn Valley Railway.
 

455driver

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Jeez, the OP asked a basic question about a specific loco requiring a basic answer, but of course all the smart arses go into every bloody detail difference of every other loco on the system! :roll:
 
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coppercapped

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Jeez, the OP asked a basic question about a specific loco requiring a basic answer, but of course all the smart arses go into every bloody detail difference of every other loco on the system! :roll:

I know! Just showing off! But for those of us who remember the first diesels, (don't forget that we were weaned on the smells of hot oil and damp coal and the sounds of steam and three-link couplings) the chance to remind ourselves of what is past is too good to miss...
 
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