East Midlands Parkway -Misleading advert.

[unlevel42]

Misleading advert by EMT
Received flyer through post today entitled "10 reasons to choose East Midlands Trains" - for Sheffield customers.
In item 3 it says " East Midlands Parkway- very handy for the airport".
Is there a new connection service planned?

 

[Qwerty133]

One train manager always says change hear for the East Midlands airport at East Midlands parkway even though the train stops at derby,long eaton,Loughborough and Leicester which all have direct bus services

 

[Geezertronic]

http://www.eastmidlandsairport.com/emaweb.nsf/Content/train

Connect at East Midlands Parkway for journeys to and from destinations outside the East Midlands region. This station is not served by bus

 

[sheff1]

Is there a new connection service planned?

There is a connecting service of sorts as explained here http://www.eastmidlandsairport.com/emaweb.nsf/Content/train.

Personally, I have never used it as I am more than happy with the Skylink from Derby on which, of course, Derbyshire Wayfarers are valid.

 

[fsmr]

Ah yes the "white Elephant"
would have made more sense to merge HS2s East Midland station with it instead of building at Toton IMHO and build a link to the airport at the same time

 

[edwin_m]

One train manager always says change hear for the East Midlands airport at East Midlands parkway even though the train stops at derby,long eaton,Loughborough and Leicester which all have direct bus services

And for completeness Nottingham too, though it may not have been on the route of that particular train. Even when the Airport buses went within 100 metres of East Midlands Parkway (previous Skylink route then Red Flyer) the nearest stop was several miles away.

 

[TrainBoy98]

Ah yes the "white Elephant"
would have made more sense to merge HS2s East Midland station with it instead of building at Toton IMHO and build a link to the airport at the same time

I agree, would provide better transport connections to the airport.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Ah yes the "white Elephant"
would have made more sense to merge HS2s East Midland station with it instead of building at Toton IMHO and build a link to the airport at the same time

I concur. Not only that but rather worringly for HS2 at Toton it also suggests that customers would rather head into the centre of Derby and Nottingham to catch the train rather than using the M1 and the A50 to access a Parkway type station.

 

[johnnychips]

Will there not be a Park and Ride facility at Toton, though? (in 20 years!). Or am I missing your point?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Will there not be a Park and Ride facility at Toton, though? (in 20 years!). Or am I missing your point?

Yes there will be, but will customers want to brave the notorious A52 during the rush hour?

 

[edwin_m]

I concur. Not only that but rather worringly for HS2 at Toton it also suggests that customers would rather head into the centre of Derby and Nottingham to catch the train rather than using the M1 and the A50 to access a Parkway type station.

I don't think anything on the thread suggests that the Parkway is a failure or indeed a success in wider terms (if anyone has figures on this then please share!). Previous posts have purely been about how useful it is for access to the Airport.

In reality the Parkway has always been about capturing for EMT London journeys from the affluent and car-dependent rural areas who would previously have driven to Grantham, perhaps a WCML railhead or even all the way to London rather than trying to get into Nottingham, Derby or Leicester. It is in a pretty good position on both the road and rail networks to achieve this, and Stagecoach now also use it as a road-rail interchange for MegaBusPlus. Any airport passengers are little more than icing on the cake and the proximity to the Airport may also have been helpful in getting local authorities and the rail industry to support the idea.

Based on this a Toton HS2 station at Toton is likely to kill the Parkway stone dead, since with a similar length of drive the car-borne catchment will reach a station that gets them to London 30min or so quicker. What Toton will do to the London rail market from the city centres is very much an open question.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I don't think anything on the thread suggests that the Parkway is a failure or indeed a success in wider terms (if anyone has figures on this then please share!). Previous posts have purely been about how useful it is for access to the Airport.

In reality the Parkway has always been about capturing for EMT London journeys from the affluent and car-dependent rural areas who would previously have driven to Grantham, perhaps a WCML railhead or even all the way to London rather than trying to get into Nottingham, Derby or Leicester. It is in a pretty good position on both the road and rail networks to achieve this, and Stagecoach now also use it as a road-rail interchange for MegaBusPlus. Any airport passengers are little more than icing on the cake and the proximity to the Airport may also have been helpful in getting local authorities and the rail industry to support the idea.

Based on this a Toton HS2 station at Toton is likely to kill the Parkway stone dead, since with a similar length of drive the car-borne catchment will reach a station that gets them to London 30min or so quicker. What Toton will do to the London rail market from the city centres is very much an open question.

Although living in London I do use the station three or four times a month and at peak times the car parks are nothing like full. Yes it's in a good position in relation to the A50 and the M1 but customers seem to prefer to not use it. Stagecoach have obviously chosen to use it due to its close proximity to the motorway.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

One train manager always says change hear for the East Midlands airport at East Midlands parkway even though the train stops at derby,long eaton,Loughborough and Leicester which all have direct bus services

Probably from some daft script that was written years ago and never updated. Chiltern guards usually still announce change at Banbury for Didcot Parkway despite the service being virtually non existent since CrossCountry stopped calling at Didcot about ten years ago!

 

[Eagle]

I count seven trains per day from Banbury that call at Didcot. Although there is a ridiculously huge gap between the 09.35 and the 18.37.

 

[pjnathanail]

I think the Megabus coaches should run via EMA, to provide a connection for East Mids Parkway and also more coaches at the airport.

 

[Tomnick]

I'm not sure that a long-distance coach service, which surely requires advance booking to guarantee travel (and is likely to be nearly full anyway), is the most appropriate way to provide a meaningful shuttle service!

 

[ashworth]

Although living in London I do use the station three or four times a month and at peak times the car parks are nothing like full. Yes it's in a good position in relation to the A50 and the M1 but customers seem to prefer to not use it. Stagecoach have obviously chosen to use it due to its close proximity to the motorway.

East Midlands Parkway is in an ideal position with fairly easy access from Nottingham, Derby, Loughborough and Leicester plus all the surrounding smaller towns and rural areas. I live midway between Nottingham and Mansfield with easy access to the M1 and it should be a station that I use regularly but actually I've only used it about half a dozen times. I think there are a number of reasons why customers prefer not to use East Midlands Parkway. These are the main reasons why I don't use it:

Firstly the price of many fares are very high in comparison to fares from Nottingham.
When you consider the price of petrol to drive to and from East Midlands Parkway and then add the £6 parking charge it puts a lot on the price of my journey. A bus or tram into Nottingham often works out much cheaper!
I park at Hucknall (free parking) and use the tram or through train tickets to my destination if cheaper.
Also if using Advance Purchase tickets that stretch of the M1 and A453 near East Midlands Parkway regularly gets congested and there is always the worry of missing your booked train.

For example taking the leisure traveler who might go for a day out to popular destinations from the East Midlands. Here are examples of the cheapest buy on the day returns available all day on a Saturday from East Midlands Parkway. Figures in brackets are for the same journey from Nottingham:

London £57.50 (£57.50)
Sheffield £19.20 (£12.80)
Leeds £39.30 (£22.50)
Manchester £39.10 (£21.60)
York £47.00 (£42.20)
Chester £36.00 (£19.90)
Lincoln £12.60 (£10.70)
Skegness £25.70 (£22.10)
Birmingham £19.00 (£17.00)

Need I say any more!
Perhaps I can understand it being a pound or two more to destinations like Lincoln and Skegness which are further in distance than from Nottingham, but then why not a few pound less to London and why more expensive to Birmingham. Many of the other fares are almost double the price because Day Returns are not available from East Midlands Parkway.
Comparable fares to Nottingham and free parking might encourage large numbers of people to use it. I certainly would.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

How popular is' Megamix' ? Am wondering who would use such a service for a London to York or Hull journey. You can usually pick up cheapish train or coach fares in advance to both without the need to chop and change and with much less of a journey time.
I am surprised that there is no service from Nottingham's Southern suburbs to East Midlands Airport which could provide a link to the station as well as giving people South of the Trent a direct link.
Maybe the station's location near three county boundaries and at the edge of an unpopulated part of Notts means none of the councils deem it worth subsidising any link.

 

[edwin_m]

The original Nottingham Skylink from 2004ish ran via Clifton but was non-stop from the last stop in Clifton to the business park near the airport. Thus the drivers could (and frequently did) divert if advised by radio of trouble on the A453. This was subsidised by the former East Midlands Development Agency and the City Council. It was said to be more about linking poorer areas of the city (Meadows and Clifton) to employment round the airport rather than being for airport passengers, though it was useful for that too and did have big luggage racks.

TrentBarton then introduced a commercial Skylink via Long Eaton and Castle Donington, including a stop at Long Eaton station, at which point the original Skylink had to be withdrawn because legislation prevents a subsidised service competing with a commercial one (though there had been a slower Rainbow 5/Indigo on this route for many years). Premiere took over the A453 route with their Red Flyer but that didn't last too long, disappearing even before Premiere did.

 

[Qwerty133]

I count seven trains per day from Banbury that call at Didcot. Although there is a ridiculously huge gap between the 09.35 and the 18.37.

If theres a script for EMT announcements all but one TM doesnt listen to it as they all do there annoucements in different ways (ranging from nothing to really long announcements saying way too much.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

How popular is' Megamix' ? Am wondering who would use such a service for a London to York or Hull journey. You can usually pick up cheapish train or coach fares in advance to both without the need to chop and change and with much less of a journey time.
I am surprised that there is no service from Nottingham's Southern suburbs to East Midlands Airport which could provide a link to the station as well as giving people South of the Trent a direct link.
Maybe the station's location near three county boundaries and at the edge of an unpopulated part of Notts means none of the councils deem it worth subsidising any link.

I used it as part of a Huddersfield-Brighton journey about 18months ago- a bit time consuming sure, but as I wasn't in a rush it wasn't too bad. Especially as my first choice (using the train throughout) would've cost about £40 more. The whole journey involved MegaBus from Huddersfield-EMP (then HST to St. Pancras) for £3.50 each way, then a bus to Victoria where an advance to Brighton set me back £5 each way- so the most costly parts of the 350 mile journey (in terms of cost per mile) were the local buses at either end and across London. Can't say fairer than that if you're not in a rush! Loadings on the 'Coach' part (which had run through from Blackburn) seemed fairly healthy too. Changing at EMP saves a good 2 hours (3 hours compared to the NatEx service that irritatingly runs via Dewsbury, Meadowhall, Sheffield and Chesterfield!) compared to getting the coach all the way and is a good deal more comfortable.

 

[mister-sparky]

It wasn't built as an airport parkway... It was built just as a park & ride station to serve the local area, not specifically the airport. So it doesn't have to have every connection under the sun to it.

 

[EM2]

With reference to the OP, I can't see how it's misleading.
It *is* very handy for the airport, it's less than a fiver in a cab. It's surely a lot more handy than any of the alternatives, which would cost more to connect to the airport?
Would you say that Brighton station is not handy for the pier? That taxi journey costs more.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

It wasn't built as an airport parkway... It was built just as a park & ride station to serve the local area, not specifically the airport. So it doesn't have to have every connection under the sun to it.

There is a bit of a difference between every connection under the sun to it and no onward public transport connections whatsoever. Even PArkway stations in more remote locations have some alternative to continuing your journey by car.

 

[edwin_m]

Bus from Long Eaton would be cheaper than a taxi from Parkway, though it would take longer and you might have to wait.

On a quick check Brighton station to Brighton pier is about 1km, an easy walk and no doubt there is a bus available too, so most people wouldn't need to use a taxi. East Midlands Parkway to the Airport is about 6km with no bus and few people would even consider walking as a route avoiding 60/70mph roads without footways would be even further, so there is no alternative.

 

[Deerfold]

I think the Megabus coaches should run via EMA, to provide a connection for East Mids Parkway and also more coaches at the airport.

I'm a little confused. Megabus coaches do run to EMA for connections to London. They seem to have built up a market though I think not as big as they'd hoped - I don;t think any of the megabusplus services still run 3 times a day. The one from Keighley only runs once a day. It's occasionally useful Northbound for me as it leaves London at 2200 - 90 minutes after the last train with a connection via Leeds but without the 3.5 hour connection in Leeds if you get the 2330.

 

[edwin_m]

I'm a little confused. Megabus coaches do run to EMA for connections to London.

They run to East Midlands Parkway. East Midlands Airport doesn't appear in their list of destinations. As pointed out above, these are different places.

 

[Deerfold]

They run to East Midlands Parkway. East Midlands Airport doesn't appear in their list of destinations. As pointed out above, these are different places.

Yes , I misread the abbreviation in pjnathanail's post (and then reused it!).

I'd agree with tomnail's point that it wouldn't provide much of a connection - but hadn't initially realised that was a response to pjnathanail.

Adding a stop at EMA itself would add quite a but to the journey time for those in Huddersfield and Halifax for which the Megabusplus is substantially quicker than the National Express alternatives.

Megabus hasn't really gone for serving airports - possibly due to the fact they don't sell flexible tickets and try and fill every coach with service specific tickets (and it's not usually possible to buy megabus tickets on the day) whcih is not good for anyone with a delayed flight arrival.

 

[JonathanH]

Yes , I misread the abbreviation in pjnathanail's post (and then reused it!).

I'd agree with tomnail's point that it wouldn't provide much of a connection - but hadn't initially realised that was a response to pjnathanail.

Adding a stop at EMA itself would add quite a but to the journey time for those in Huddersfield and Halifax for which the Megabusplus is substantially quicker than the National Express alternatives.

Megabus hasn't really gone for serving airports - possibly due to the fact they don't sell flexible tickets and try and fill every coach with service specific tickets (and it's not usually possible to buy megabus tickets on the day) whcih is not good for anyone with a delayed flight arrival.

The fact that the coaches don't have a half hour detour into airports en route makes them quicker city to city than National Express.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

One train manager always says change hear for the East Midlands airport at East Midlands parkway even though the train stops at derby,long eaton,Loughborough and Leicester which all have direct bus services

exactly

IIRC Derby is best because of proximity of the Station to the Bus stop , Leicester and loughborough require either a second bus journey or a bit of a hike to the bus stop for the skylink

If EMP had a shuttle bus it'd be OK but the book in advance share taxi thing is a joke of the first order ....