ECML Major Disruption at Grantham & Kings Cross - why is it taking so long to return to normal service? (04/10/2024)

[Intercity_225]

There is major disruption on the ECML right now, with a person being hit by a train near Grantham congesting up the line. But what I ask is, why's it taking so long to return to normal service? Kings Cross is struggling to keep up with the timetable, with many trains being queued up between WGC & Finsbury. So, my question is, why is it taking so long to return back to normal?

Description
All lines have now reopened following a person being hit by a train earlier today in the Grantham area. Trains in this area will be cancelled, delayed by up to 50 minutes, revised or diverted.

Disruption is expected until 21:00.

If you've been affected by what happened on the network today, there is always someone to talk to. You can contact the Samaritans on 116 123 from any phone for a confidential chat.

Advice for LNER customers:
Due to todays disruption you may defer your travel to a later LNER service today 4 October or choose to travel on an LNER service tomorrow, Saturday 5 October.

To help complete your journey, you may use your ticket at no extra cost on the following: (Please note some of these train operators may also be impacted by this incident)

Avanti West Coast between London Euston, Manchester and Glasgow Central / Edinburgh

CrossCountry between Sheffield, Doncaster / Leeds, York and Newcastle / Edinburgh

Greater Anglia between London Liverpool Street, Stevenage and Peterborough

Grand Central between London Kings Cross and York

Great Northern and Thameslink between London Kings Cross, Stevenage and Peterborough, and between London St Pancras International and Bedford

Hull Trains between London Kings Cross and Doncaster

Northern via any reasonable route

ScotRail between Edinburgh and Aberdeen

TransPennine Express between Manchester, Leeds and York / Newcastle



Please see the alternative route map for more details:

https://lner.co.uk/disruptionmapa (via West Coast)

https://www.lner.co.uk/disruptionmapb (via Midland Mainline)

https://lner.co.uk/disruptionmapc (via West Anglia)

http://lner.co.uk/disruptionmapd

Advice for Grand Central customers:
To help complete your journey, you may use your ticket at no extra cost on the following: (Please note some of these train operators may also be impacted by this incident)

East Midlands Railway between London St Pancras International and Sheffield

CrossCountry via any reasonable route

Avanti West Coast between London Euston and Birmingham New Street

LNER via any reasonable route


Advice for Hull Trains customers:
To help complete your journey, you may use your ticket at no extra cost on the following: (Please note some of these train operators may also be impacted by this incident)

LNER between London Kings Cross and Doncaster

Northern between Hull and Leeds / Sheffield

TransPennine Express between Hull and Leeds, and Doncaster and Sheffield


Check before you travel:

You can check your journey using the National Rail Enquiries real-time Journey Planner.

For helpful advice if you need to travel on a rail replacement service, including accessibility and bicycle information, please use our Rail Replacement Services page.

You can find the pick-up and set-down location of rail replacement services by checking station signage or by searching for your station on our Find a Station page.

Please be advised that replacement vehicles may be busier than usual, and you should allow extra time for your journey.

Compensation:

You may be entitled to compensation if you experience a delay in completing your journey today. Please keep your train ticket and make a note of your journey, as both will be required to support any claim.

May I just say, I am not travelling on the line today. I was just very confused and was pondering the question.

 

[rg177]

It is certainly very messy. I was booked on the 18:30 to Newcastle but have gone for the 17:30 instead which is still yet to depart.

Congestion at King's Cross seems to be the main factor. But the departure screens were lacking some manual intervention as they claimed my train was on time and boarding shortly right up until about 18:25 when I went off for the 17:30. Communication in general about what's running when has been pretty bad (even 'delayed' would have been acceptable so expectations could be managed).

Coach C on this train has all seats taken but nobody standing. From the TM's announcements I gather further back it's closer to carnage. The 18:00 is long gone but apparently that was unable to take anyone else.

 

[harz99]

At a guess a combination of traincrew being out of place thus the Cross has platforms blocked, and the incident scene being locked down by the police.

At least one train (a Grand Central) appears to have been routed via Lincoln from Doncaster to London.

 

[Banham7]

At a guess a combination of traincrew being out of place thus the Cross has platforms blocked, and the incident scene being locked down by the police.

At least one train (a Grand Central) appears to have been routed via Lincoln from Doncaster to London.

Grand Central - 1A70, 1A63
Hull Trains - 1H02, 1A93
LNER - 1F02

were routed via Lincoln. 1F02 was formed from a train crew retention run (5D01/5D02) via Lincoln and was the only bi-mode available in the Peterborough area at the time.

 

[harz99]

Grand Central - 1A70, 1A63
Hull Trains - 1H02, 1A93
LNER - 1F02

were routed via Lincoln. 1F02 was formed from a train crew retention run (5D01/5D02) via Lincoln and was the only bi-mode available in the Peterborough area at the time.

Thank you.

 

[55002]

The incident happened at 9.55 this morning and lines reopened at 1220 ish. normally LNER cancel trains around the incident time to ensure the timetable is restored quickly later on, does seem odd that there is still such major disruption

 

[rg177]

The incident happened at 9.55 this morning and lines reopened at 1220 ish. normally LNER cancel trains around the incident time to ensure the timetable is restored quickly later on, does seem odd that there is still such major disruption

It's essentially congestion in and out of London now and crew displacement. Apparently my train originally had no crew but they sourced enough to run it (with the caveat of no First Class catering).

When I left London, it was one in and one out - as the platforms were full.

 

[Doctor Pepper]

The incident happened at 9.55 this morning and lines reopened at 1220 ish. normally LNER cancel trains around the incident time to ensure the timetable is restored quickly later on, does seem odd that there is still such major disruption

Reopened at 12:20, yet my 13:24 train from Lincoln was cancelled, as was the next train 2 hours later. Eventually I was able to get the 17:27 train, four hours after I was supposed to depart! And there's there's the part where they don't decide a train is cancelled until the last minute. I kept watching the online departure info trying to work whether trains were going to be cancelled or not. Their Twitter person told me the 17:27 was also likely to be cancelled, in fact it wasn't and left on time. I'd already booked a hotel, but ended up loosing the money because getting the direct train home this evening seemed a better option than trying to get home tomorrow when there are no direct trains to London.

 

[55002]

Reopened at 12:20, yet my 13:24 train from Lincoln was cancelled, as was the next train 2 hours later. Eventually I was able to get the 17:27 train, four hours after I was supposed to depart! And there's there's the part where they don't decide a train is cancelled until the last minute. I kept watching the online departure info trying to work whether trains were going to be cancelled or not. Their Twitter person told me the 17:27 was also likely to be cancelled, in fact it wasn't and left on time. I'd already booked a hotel, but ended up loosing the money because getting the direct train home this evening seemed a better option than trying to get home tomorrow when there are no direct trains to London.

I suspect the Lincoln’s are the default cancellation, easiest to knock out, did see the 1127 ran though As the set was already in Lincoln. The 1324 would have been cancelled early on as the 1006 inbound from KGX was one of first knocked out

 

[Doctor Pepper]

I suspect the Lincoln’s are the default cancellation, easiest to knock out, did see the 1127 ran though As the set was already in Lincoln. The 1324 would have been cancelled early on as the 1006 inbound from KGX was one of first knocked out

I missed the 11:27 because at that point I didn't know anything was amiss. How can it be acceptable to cancel services where there is a two hour wait between trains?? It makes me think twice about going back to Lincoln tbh.

 

[yorkie]

I missed the 11:27 because at that point I didn't know anything was amiss. How can it be acceptable to cancel services where there is a two hour wait between trains?? It makes me think twice about going back to Lincoln tbh.

Was there no opportunity to change at Peterborough, Grantham or Newark? Retford would have been another possibility.

 

[The exile]

But the departure screens were lacking some manual intervention as they claimed my train was on time and boarding shortly right up until about 18:25 when I went off for the 17:30. Communication in general about what's running when has been pretty bad (even 'delayed' would have been acceptable so expectations could be managed).

Unfortunately this seems par for the course with passenger information now that so much is in the “hands” of computers which don’t seem to have been programmed to “think ahead” or apply one tiny grain of common sense (how can the second train on this platform be expected at 16.16 when the first one [which is ahead of it on plain track] is delayed until 16.20?)

 

[800001]

I missed the 11:27 because at that point I didn't know anything was amiss. How can it be acceptable to cancel services where there is a two hour wait between trains?? It makes me think twice about going back to Lincoln tbh.

LNER had ticket acceptance with EMR, so once the line was reopened you could have travelled to Newark and Changed, or if travelling to London continued to Nottingham and used EMR to London!

The 13:24 Lincoln to London train would have been cancelled, as sadly, due to the loss of life at Grantham the train to form that service would not of made if north from Grantham!

There was certainly no requirement to remain in Lincoln for as long as you chose to do so! Plenty of opportunities for you to of been on the move from Lincoln.

If travelling to Peterborough or south of there multiple EMR services to Peterborough departed Lincoln during the time the line was closed.

If travelling north there was also EMR to Doncaster!

 

[Doctor Pepper]

I needed to to get King's Cross, for St. Pancras to get to Kent. I had no idea what the best option was tbh. I didn't want to end up stuck somewhere on the ECML. At least while I was in Lincoln there was stuff to occupy my time. Going via Nottingham seems overly complicated tbh. I wouldn't have even thought of it.

I didn't even know you could get to Nottingham from there. My geographical railway knowledge centres around getting to places from London.

 

[800001]

I needed to to get King's Cross, for St. Pancras to get to Kent. I had no idea what the best option was tbh. I didn't want to end up stuck somewhere on the ECML. At least while I was in Lincoln there was stuff to occupy my time. Going via Nottingham seems overly complicated tbh. I wouldn't have even thought of it.

Did you speak to station staff at Lincoln?

Direct train from Lincoln to Nottingham then direct train to St Pancras! Station staff could of advised that.

EMR to Peterborough, then Thamslink to St Pancras, station staff could have advised that.

Nothing complicated about either journey, and both options would have saved ‘hanging’ around in Lincoln for several unnecessary hours.

It seems to me that booking a hotel and losing money could have been avoided by simply speaking to station staff.

 

[Doctor Pepper]

Did you speak to station staff at Lincoln?

Direct train from Lincoln to Nottingham then direct train to St Pancras! Station staff could of advised that.

EMR to Peterborough, then Thamslink to St Pancras, station staff could have advised that.

Nothing complicated about either journey, and both options would have saved ‘hanging’ around in Lincoln for several unnecessary hours.

It seems to me that booking a hotel and losing money could have been avoided by simply speaking to station staff.

I wasn’t near the station. I was up by the cathedral. I also had a bag being stored by my hotel.i didn’t want to collect it, trudge down the station, then find I can’t go anywhere and have to lug a big bag around with me. I was trying to work out was happening using the internet on my phone. I thought I’d be able to get the next train, until that was cancelled too.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I wasn’t near the station. I was up by the cathedral. I also had a bag being stored by my hotel.i didn’t want to collect it, trudge down the station, then find I can’t go anywhere and have to lug a big bag around with me. I was trying to work out was happening using the internet on my phone. I thought I’d be able to get the next train, until that was cancelled too.

The hotel staff may well have been able to tell you at least of the existence of trains to Peterborough or Nottingham, if you had asked them.

But it should have been apparent that the 1324 and 1524 were unlikely to happen as soon as the incoming services to form them were shown as cancelled.

I needed to to get King's Cross, for St. Pancras to get to Kent. I had no idea what the best option was tbh. I didn't want to end up stuck somewhere on the ECML. At least while I was in Lincoln there was stuff to occupy my time. Going via Nottingham seems overly complicated tbh. I wouldn't have even thought of it.

I didn't even know you could get to Nottingham from there. My geographical railway knowledge centres around getting to places from London.

The National Rail "Live Departures" page from Lincoln would have shown there were trains both to Nottingham and (as it wasn't a Sunday) also to Peterborough, and that they were running normally as they go nowhere near Grantham. (As you say your knowledge of railway geography relates to getting places from London, you presumably knew that there are trains to London from both Nottingham and Peterborough.

At least Lincoln is a nice place to have a few extra hours to pass.

 

[Doctor Pepper]

The hotel staff may well have been able to tell you at least of the existence of trains to Peterborough or Nottingham, if you had asked them.

But it should have been apparent that the 1324 and 1524 were unlikely to happen as soon as the incoming services to form them were shown as cancelled.


The National Rail "Live Departures" page from Lincoln would have shown there were trains both to Nottingham and (as it wasn't a Sunday) also to Peterborough, and that they were running normally as they go nowhere near Grantham. (As you say your knowledge of railway geography relates to getting places from London, you presumably knew that there are trains to London from both Nottingham and Peterborough.

At least Lincoln is a nice place to have a few extra hours to pass.

I wasn't looking at any other trains, only at trains to London.

Nothing was apparent when all those trains were only say "delayed" with no other info. And how was I even to know exactly where the train I wanted to get on was coming from?

I didn't even think to ask hotel, as I doubt they knew anything about trains. I didn't have much faith in them to tell me anything tbh as they put me in a room that had a noisy racket right outside the my window from 6 in the morning until 10 at night.

Also, if I'd tried a different route to get home I was concerned I'd spend all or a lot of the trip with no seat.....

 

[ValleyLines142]

So on National Rail yesterday, it said that EMR were accepting Hull Trains/LNER/Grand Central tickets from Sheffield to St Pancras.

Thought I'd be better message them on X to confirm they'd had the brief, and then they turned around and said they weren't!

Sent them a screenshot of the National Rail page, 'My apologies, yes this will be valid on our services to St Pancras'.

I wondered whether that was a genuine misunderstanding, or a sheer lack of checking internal work apps/pages!

Photo shows a transcript of the conversation I had with them. Have removed the screenshot from National Rail in between the two messages from them so I could fit in on a screenshot.

 

[800001]

So on National Rail yesterday, it said that EMR were accepting Hull Trains/LNER/Grand Central tickets from Sheffield to St Pancras.

Thought I'd be better message them on X to confirm they'd had the brief, and then they turned around and said they weren't!

Sent them a screenshot of the National Rail page, 'My apologies, yes this will be valid on our services to St Pancras'.

I wondered whether that was a genuine misunderstanding, or a sheer lack of checking internal work apps/pages!

Photo shows a transcript of the conversation I had with them. Have removed the screenshot from National Rail in between the two messages from them so I could fit in on a screenshot.

Probably nothing more than a simple mistake, not everything has to be a ‘sheer lack of checking’!

Remember EMR were also in disruption due to the fatality and were no doubt inundated with messages

People make mistakes, they corrected there mistake and you got the information you needed.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Probably nothing more than a simple mistake, not everything has to be a ‘sheer lack of checking’!

Remember EMR were also in disruption due to the fatality and were no doubt inundated with messages

People make mistakes, they corrected there mistake and you got the information you needed.

Yes indeed, hence my comment, just a panic when I was en route to Sheffield!

 

[norbitonflyer]

a noisy racket right outside the my window from 6 in the morning until 10 at night.

The cathedral clock, perhaps?
Every 15 minutes.........

 

[Doctor Pepper]

The cathedral clock, perhaps?
Every 15 minutes.........

No what I assume was an extractor fan for the kitchen. Unbelievable.

 

[mike57]

Unfortunately we were caught up in this returning from Paris. It was total chaos. As others have said Kings Cross was filled with trains going nowhere, while trains were stacked outside waiting for platforms. Why were they not moved to the depot to free up space, In the 2+ hours we were stuck there trains at 4 of the main line platforms didn't move. The situation was made worse as it was busier than usual because of engineering works over the weekend.

 

[skyhigh]

Why were they not moved to the depot to free up space

Presumably because there was no crew to do so.

 

[mike57]

Presumably because there was no crew to do so.

Do the 'mainline' drivers sign the routes to the depot, or is it a different group of drivers? Assuming mainline drivers sign the route then in a case like this get rid of the train as soon as its emptied out. If its depot drivers then get them in taxis, buses, the tube and down to King Cross.

As a general contingency plan for disruption of any type getting empty trains that are not going anywhere soon out of the way has to be the first priority. Incoming trains were stuck outside Kings Cross for over 90 minutes in some cases waiting for a platform. Having trains queued like that means incoming drivers were up to their allowable hours and this just makes matters worse and the disruption continues even when the original problem was cleared.

 

[The North Briton]

Do the 'mainline' drivers sign the routes to the depot, or is it a different group of drivers? Assuming mainline drivers sign the route then in a case like this get rid of the train as soon as its emptied out. If its depot drivers then get them in taxis, buses, the tube and down to King Cross.

As a general contingency plan for disruption of any type getting empty trains that are not going anywhere soon out of the way has to be the first priority. Incoming trains were stuck outside Kings Cross for over 90 minutes in some cases waiting for a platform. Having trains queued like that means incoming drivers were up to their allowable hours and this just makes matters worse and the disruption continues even when the original problem was cleared.

I believe only Kings Cross based drivers sign the route to the depot (which involves a reversal at Bowes Park). Of course, there are no longer any drivers rostered to Thunderbird duties at KGX and I believe LNER may have discontinued the standby turns too, both of whom would be ideal for this eventuality.

 

[800001]

As a general contingency plan for disruption of any type getting empty trains that are not going anywhere soon out of the way has to be the first priority. Incoming trains were stuck outside Kings Cross for over 90 minutes in some cases waiting for a platform. Having trains queued like that means incoming drivers were up to their allowable hours and this just makes matters worse and the disruption continues even when the original problem was cleared.

The depot driver at Bounds Green supplied by LNER is paid for my Hitachi, any use of that driver away from the depot needs authorising my Hitachi, as it can/will
Impact what hitachi do on the depot.

 

[mike57]

I believe only Kings Cross based drivers sign the route to the depot (which involves a reversal at Bowes Park). Of course, there are no longer any drivers rostered to Thunderbird duties at KGX and I believe LNER may have discontinued the standby turns too, both of whom would be ideal for this eventuality.

The depot driver at Bounds Green supplied by LNER is paid for my Hitachi, any use of that driver away from the depot needs authorising my Hitachi, as it can/will
Impact what hitachi do on the depot.

We had a 'front row seat' for well over 2 hours, and there is no doubt that a bad situation was made far worse by the congestion at Kings Cross. I realise disruption happens, but a lack of plan, including what to do with empty trains should be part of contingency planning, particularly somewhere like Kings Cross where there is little or no excess capacity/space. It seems to me this is another downside of the current fragmented state of the railways.