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Edinburgh Trams Driver Job

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lifan2000

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4 May 2013
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Hi. Not sure if there will be anyone on here able to answer this, but I recently applied for a job as a Tram Driver with Edinburgh Trams and have got Stage 1 of the selection process coming up soon.

Whilst I'm ok with what is expected of me at the selection tests (they are the same ones as for train drivers), I am being put off a bit by some stories I have heard about the terms and conditions from some people 'in the know' who have told me that the terms are totally skewed towards the company and are a pretty poor deal for the drivers.

Can anyone with knowledge of the working conditions at Edinburgh Trams tell me about how the pay increases over time and what is needed to achieve this and is there much opportunity for working overtime to top up earnings? Any other usful information about the job? Please PM me if you don't want to post publicly. Thankyou :D
 
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londonboi

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i had a look at this job when it came out as well but decided against it. Whilst i think the trams are a great idea for Edinburgh as princes street is a nightmare at times with traffic and buses hopefully the trams will ease this off a bit.

could you elaborate a bit more on the stories you have heard. You will learn very quickly that the railways will always have horror stories but they are just that mate stories. If its truley a job you want to do and have your heart/mind set on it then what's stopping you from going for it ignore the stories and concentrate on doing what you want don't let anyone put you off
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Which Union will the Edinburgh tram guys join?

i am guessing it will most likely be RMT would aslef the drivers union come under tram drivers or are the just for mainline rail / tube drivers
 

westcoaster

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i had a look at this job when it came out as well but decided against it. Whilst i think the trams are a great idea for Edinburgh as princes street is a nightmare at times with traffic and buses hopefully the trams will ease this off a bit.

could you elaborate a bit more on the stories you have heard. You will learn very quickly that the railways will always have horror stories but they are just that mate stories. If its truley a job you want to do and have your heart/mind set on it then what's stopping you from going for it ignore the stories and concentrate on doing what you want don't let anyone put you off
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


i am guessing it will most likely be RMT would aslef the drivers union come under tram drivers or are the just for mainline rail / tube drivers

Aslef now do trams as well they certainly set up shop at Croydon.
 

A-driver

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Aslef now do trams as well they certainly set up shop at Croydon.

Not sure they will do other tram networks though. They only got Croydon when first ran it as they managed to get it into the scot rail paid deal that Croydon trams would recognise aslef.

They may represent Edinburgh and others to but I know it was difficult to get them in at Croydon.
 

japanzzz

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Having seen my mate's contract for Edinburgh Trams, I decided against pursuing my application further than the first stage. Not sure what sort of stories you've heard, but in my opinion you are definitely correct in saying that the contract was heavily weighted in favour of the employer. With 350 applicants for the initial 12 advertised Driver posts, they can afford to offer such terms & conditions... anything that will help them offset their huge budget over-run!

The main points were:
1) first 6 months are probationary.
2) they are managed by Lothian Buses, and you can be transferred to any other group employer or department - so if there are further delays in getting the trams up & running, you might find yourself working for Lothian Buses instead; My employer also operates trains but my contract doesn't mention anything like this so either it is a real possibility or they are just covering their backs.
3) no second (or third;)) jobs without written consent. Again my current employer doesn't do this. As long as I stay legal within my domestic drivers hours.
4) average weekly hours are 40.
5) the company can change your hours/shifts with a weeks notice.
6) some nightshift.
7) salary is £20k in year 1, 22k in Year 2, and 24k in Year 3 onwards. Increases after 3 years will be looked at annually.
8) salary increases are subject to you meeting the company's competences though none of the new drivers know exactly what these actually are yet despite starting months ago.
9) overtime is flat-rate and with it being a single line network, don't expect much as the rotas will be easy to plan.
10) the Driver's contract contains an opt-out for the Working Time Regs which is probably them covering themselves as it doesn't look like you would really need it.
11) holidays - 33 days a year inc. public holidays.
12) if the tram network is closed down for any reason (like failure, maintenance, emergency work for example) they can take those days off your holiday entitlement - up to 8 days a year I think!!!
13) no pension mentioned but being run by Lothian Buses they might end up offering something similar to that or otherwise it might end up being the compulsory NEST pension scheme that the government is introducing. I'm guessing they might end up offering something similar to the Lothian Buses one. Might be along the lines of employee contributions from 3-5% which the company will match, but who knows?
14) sick-pay is government statutory which is £86.70 a week once you are absent 4+ days in a row. Poor but par for the course for most new starts in the industry these days.
15) training bond is £2400.
16) notice period (employer) is 1 weeks notice up to 2 years, then rising by a week for every year up to a max of 12 weeks.
17) notice period (you) is 1 week during training, 4 weeks during probation, and then 12 weeks.
18) union - the word from the guys already in the job is that they are looking to do the same as Lothian Buses and get Unite on board. No mentioned of the RMT.
(some are already Unite members from Lothian).

They were also recently advertising again for Driver and Controller jobs. I was sorely tempted to put in for a Controller job which was salaried at £27,795 but this was for a 45 hour week and included night-shifts. With the extra hours you have to do compared to a driver, you're only really getting an extra £795 and that's for the additional responsibility and having to work night-shifts so I regrettably decided to give it a miss.

In the end, I would say that most of the terms and conditions are the norm for the public transport industry (except train drivers) but there are some that stand out as being quite poor like them being able to take holidays off you if the network is down. You have to weigh up whether it works for you or not, but I felt that sticking with my current bus driving job was a better bet. You have to put up with some real **** sometimes but overall, my terms and conditions are slightly better, my pay (with overtime) is slightly better, I have a company pension, get full pay if off sick for a few days (I have been there a few years to build that up though), and if I do decide to jack it all in one day, I'm not on anything like a 12 week notice period.
 
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90019

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2) they are managed by Lothian Buses, and you can be transferred to any other group employer or department - so if there are further delays in getting the trams up & running, you might find yourself working for Lothian Buses instead;
It's possible, but I'd be surprised if that happened. Not quite sure where they'd move you to, either.
11) holidays - 33 days a year inc. public holidays.
Interestingly, that's less than I get as a Lothian bus driver.
18) union - the word from the guys already in the job is that they are looking to do the same as Lothian Buses and get Unite on board. No mentioned of the RMT.
I'd expect it to be Unite, being as they have a very strong presence within Lothian - about 98% of drivers are members.


A lot of what you say seems to be broadly similar to how things are on the buses. As the trams are managed by Lothian, that doesn't come as a surprise, but neither does the fact that the conditions do seem to be a bit worse.
 

notadriver

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Hi Japanzzz,
Thanks for that information. Very interesting. With the exception of Croydon tramlink, most other tram systems in the country seem to have broadly similar pay, terms and conditions. It seems similar to what bus drivers get or worse in some cases. The only similar job on the area I can think of was when Scotrail were looking for some drivers on their new route. But for that job it's a 35 hour week, 39k after training with Sundays outside.
 

lifan2000

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It's exactly what I wanted to know. I know a couple of the guys who have got a Driver's job and although they had told me a few of the terms and conditions, they missed out some quite important ones. They are only in the job as hopefully a stepping stone to the railways, and are saying they only intend sticking it for a year or two. I'm not so sure myself as the few people I know who drive for Scotrail all got in through working their way through jobs like ticket inspector, conductors etc first, so all internal candidates. Good luck to them though!

It isn't for me. Things like flat rate overtime, no prospect of a pay rise for at least 3 years, them being able to use some of your holidays for non operational days, the training bond, the lack of sick pay, the ridiculous notice periods once finished probation, and so on. Least I now know before wasting my time going for stage 1 assessments. **** job. Bring on the Eastern Europeans!
 

LQ

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6 May 2013
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Hey everyone, I was wondering if anyone can help me, I have to go for a stage 2 at Edinburgh trams can anyone tell me what to expect like what the vocal commuication test is and I think there's another test to take and also what kind of questions do they ask in the interview? Thank you if you can help me out as abit nervous
 

japanzzz

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Hi LQ. I'm told the stage 2 isn't that difficult. There's a verbal communications test involving listening to a mock answering machine message from the driver of a train that has hit a shopping trolley. It's about a minute or so long and includes details of the train, origin, destination, where the accident occurred, action the driver has taken and more. You get to hear the message twice and have paper to write notes. You get to take these notes in to the interview.
My mate was interviewed by 2 people and said that at the start of it you have to relay the message from the verbal communications test back to the interviewers. He said it's not hard and you just need to make sure you try to get in all the main relevant facts. The rest of the interview is a fairly straight-forward chat about why you want to drive trams, what can you offer to the company etc.
Good luck!
 
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LQ

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Hi japanZZZ thank you for your reply and letting me know what to expect, am glad it's not to difficult :) but can I ask what other questions they ask in the interview as that's where my problem is, I hate interviews and I just want to be as prepared as possible, it's like my head just goes blank! Are you a team driver also? Once again many thanks again
 

Foxydebs

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Which Union will the Edinburgh tram guys join?

Im guessing unite as that is what us at sheffield are in. :D
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I work as a conductor on trams at sheffield and am comparing some of your concerns.

1) first 6 months are probationary.

This is same as Sheffield

2) they are managed by Lothian Buses, and you can be transferred to any other group employer or department - so if there are further delays in getting the trams up & running, you might find yourself working for Lothian Buses instead; My employer also operates buses and trains but my contract doesn't mention anything like this either.

4) average weekly hours are 40. Ours are 37 and half hours a week.

6) some nightshift - We have rostered night staff.

7) salary is £20k in year 1, 22k in Year 2, and 24k in Year 3 onwards. Increases after 3 years will be looked at annually. Our salary is less. But plenty of over time.

9) overtime is flat-rate and with it being a single line network, don't expect much as the rotas will be easy to plan. Overtime flat rate but quite a lot of it.

13) no pension mentioned but being run by Lothian Buses they might end up offering something similar to that or otherwise it might end up being the compulsory NEST pension scheme that the government is introducing. I'm guessing they might end up offering something similar to the Lothian Buses one. Might be along the lines of employee contributions from 3-5% which the company will match, but who knows? Some employees are on a final salary pension, whilst some pay into an investment scheme, that you use to buy a pension with.


14) sick-pay is government statutory which is £86.70 a week once you are absent 4+ days in a row. Poor but par for the course for most new starts in the industry these days. We have company sick pay.

15) training bond is £2400. Think our training bond for drivers is ?£1000

18) union - the word from the guys already in the job is that they are looking to do the same as Lothian Buses and get Unite on board. No mentioned of the RMT. As Ive already mentioned our union is unite.

Thought these comparasions would be good for people.
 

japanzzz

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23 Feb 2013
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Hi LQ. Just read your message about your Stage 2 of the selection process. Just back from holiday so you might have been & done it by now, but if not, I'm afraid I can't give you any further details about what is asked as I haven't seen my mate for a few weeks. He did just say that it was a fairly straight forward interview with no questions to surprise you or catch you out. Hope that helps.

Interesting comparison with Sheffield Foxydebs. Somes pluses, some minuses.
 
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