Edinburgh Waverley & Haymarket Query

[Timo1701]

Hi all,

Not sure if this is a stupid question or not? But here goes.....

I am travelling to Edinburgh from Leicester Via Derby on saturday on a standard off peak return. On our tickets (advance purchase) it states Leicester to Edinburgh. The question is as the ticket states the destination as Edinburgh, could I say get off the train at Edinburgh Waverley and then get on another train to Edinburgh Haymarket using the same ticket. I.E not having to purchase separate tickets from Waverley to Haymarket.

Thanks For Your Help.

Timo

 

[First class]

Simple answer, no.

Once you arrive at Edinburgh Waverley your ticket is finished with. You cannot double back.

I was also under the impression that all trains to Waverley called at Haymarket, (have I got this wrong), even still you shouldn't alight there as your ticket is not valid for Break of Journey and you are liable to pay an additional (expensive) fare.

£1.80 Waverley to Haymarket.

 

[Liam]

I was also under the impression that all trains to Waverley called at Haymarket, (have I got this wrong), even still you shouldn't alight there as your ticket is not valid for Break of Journey and you are liable to pay an additional (expensive) fare.

All trains from the West (except very few) call Haymarket, but if travelling via Derby then presumably it's XC via Newcastle, which enters Waverley from the East.

In anycase your ticket is for Edinburgh, so no, you cannot use it to go to Haymarket. It's only a 10 minute walk away anyway.

 

[rail-britain]

I suggest you check the trains final destination, as it may be Glasgow Central
It may also call at Haymarket after Edinburgh on its way to Glasgow Central
If it does then ask on-board if your ticket is valid to Haymarket as a group station (which it should be)
If the Train Manager says no, then simply purchase the single from Edinburgh to Haymarket

 

[bb21]

You said,

... on a standard off peak return ...

then you said,

... On our tickets (advance purchase) ...

For a start, I'm confused as to what ticket you have. What does it say under "Ticket types"? I'm trying to figure out whether it is an Advance ticket or an Off-Peak Return that's just been purchased in advance of travel.

 

[island]

If it does then ask on-board if your ticket is valid to Haymarket as a group station (which it should be)

No it shouldn't. Edinburgh + Haymarket (+ Dalmeny + South Gyle) is a routeing group, meaning you may double back within the group if it is an intermediate routeing point in your journey; this option is provided for interchange purposes. It is not a ticketing group — an ADVANCE ticket to EDINBURGH * is valid only to Edinburgh Waverley and nowhere else. (Most walk-up tickets to Edinburgh can be used for break of journey at Haymarket if you pass through there.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Incidentally, a ticket to Edinburgh will probably be accepted (and retained) by the barriers at Haymarket.

 

[rail-britain]

I've only just worked out the OP has an Advance, and so would have no choice but to travel to Edinburgh AND purchase a separate ticket

There is usually no problem using other ticket types at Haymarket even when they are marked Edinburgh
The barrier will not accept tickets marked Edinburgh, as the passenger may require it back (break in journey)

 

[island]

The barrier will not accept tickets marked Edinburgh, as the passenger may require it back (break in journey)

Assuming you mean "retain" rather than "accept", I'm afraid I can speak from first-hand experience in saying you're mistaken.

 

[W-on-Sea]

I appreciate there is some confusion because of the wording used, but I think the OP has a "standard off-peak return" that happened to have been purchased in advance - NOT a journey-restricted "Advance" ticket only valid on one train, and on which one can't stop short, etc.

I think asking on board is the way to go. If it IS a standard off-peak return we'll dealing with, the routing guide should supply an answer too (I SUSPECT the answer is "yes", if there are permitted routes from Derby approaching Edinburgh from the west, as I would presume there is.)

 

[island]

I think it depends on whether the train the person uses approaches Edinburgh from the west. Strictly speaking if they arrive in Edinburgh from the east and continue to Haymarket they are over-riding, and liable to be charged £1.80 on arrival. But they could (assuming the ticket held is not an advance) get an overdistance excess before travel which would be free of charge.

 

[90019]

The barrier will not accept tickets marked Edinburgh, as the passenger may require it back (break in journey)

I know from experience that they do retain tickets marked Edinburgh, as they have done every time I've been through Haymarket rather than Waverley.

 

[Paul Kelly]

I am also assuming that Edinburgh will be entered from the east and the ticket is an off-peak return Leicester to Edinburgh route Derby. But as the fare to Haymarket is the same price, should the OP not just be recommended to obtain an overdistance excess to Haymarket before travelling (at zero fare)?

Edit: oh yes, island already suggested that. I agree

 

[scotsman]

Luckily round here, we don't do PFs, MG11s are uncommon and our Ticket Examiners are out to help passengers and not catch them all out! If you turned up at Haymarket with that ticket, they are likely to point out it's 'technically' not valid but let you pass through anyway. I've been sold tickets on the barrier with a debit card before...

 

[Timo1701]

Thanks for all your replys, just to clear up a few points. Train will be entering from the east, hence not travelling through Edinburgh Haymarket on the way. My Ticket is a standard off peak return purchased in advance from EMT which is why my route as to be via Derby. Its Just that when I put my journey details on EMT website from Leicester to Edinburgh Haymarket it was the same price as the my Leicester to Edinburgh Waverley ticket. But as I said the destination on my ticket states Edinburgh, not Edinburgh Waverley, which is why I asked the question.

I think my best bet is to ask when I arrive At Edinburgh Waverley.

Thanks

Timo

 

[yorkie]

Best not to use the term 'Advance purchase' or even the word advance unless using it with extreme caution and clearly worded, as Advance is a ticket type. However it's clear now your ticket is Off Peak Return not Advance Singles.

The price is the same, which means nothing other than the excess is zero if excessing at the first opportunity. However I advise against waiting until your ticket expires as some staff will refuse to issue an excess once you have reached your destination stating the ticket is then finished with (obviously if that was the first opportunity - which it wouldn't in your case - then they would have to do it). I have not seen any evidence that the staff are correct, or incorrect, so we can only go on common sense and logic. But there is a logical argument to say you should not be able to excess it once you have reached your destination, having declined earlier opportunities to do so.

I would therefore ask for the excess at Leicester station, and if they can't do it ask a guard on any of the trains or at an intermediate station. Waiting until Edinburgh may be fine for you but don't be surprised if they decline!

 

[John @ home]

My Ticket is a standard off peak return purchased in advance from EMT which is why my route as to be via Derby. Its Just that when I put my journey details on EMT website from Leicester to Edinburgh Haymarket it was the same price as the my Leicester to Edinburgh Waverley ticket.

Thanks. The info on ticket type is very helpful.

If you travel via Sheffield, your journey Leicester - Haymarket generally takes 5hrs 10 - 5hrs 20 and you have to travel via Edinburgh (Waverley).

But with a route Derby ticket you can also choose to travel via Crewe. This takes 5hrs 12 - 5hrs 27 and reaches Haymarket before Edinburgh. The Standard Off-Peak Return Leicester - Edinburgh route Derby is valid for break of either or both legs of the journey, so there is absolutely no doubt that you are allowed to end your journey early at Haymarket. Taking tomorrow at 0904 as an example, the alternatives are:

via Crewe

09:04 Leicester - Derby 09:26
09:40 Derby - Crewe 10:59
11:09 Crewe - Haymarket 14:16

via Sheffield

09:04 Leicester - Sheffield 10:00
10:21 Sheffield - Edinburgh 14:07
14:18 Edinburgh - Haymarket 14:23

I recommend you travel via Crewe.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, if you avoid the Newcastle/Berwick 'East Coast' route and instead travel via the 'West Coast Main Line', there is no need to get an over-distance excess, though if you would rather take the East Coast route it's worth asking for the excess. In theory all ticket office staff should be able to do it without any fuss, though many people have experienced some ticket office staff being unable to issue excesses correctly.

 

[Jock]

In my own personal expierience, the Barrier staff at HYM have generally been OK with me, but ive always travelled in from the west with a ticket for Edinburgh.

I have known, when coming from the East (namely Dunbar) the guard doing the 1.50 (i think it was that at the time) single for one stop however, but i presume this was because the punter in question had a AP ticket

 

[route:oxford]

Essentially, it might work. It might not work.

The most it's going to cost you is a couple of quid.

 

[island]

I was refused a zero excess by SWT the other week and required to buy a new ticket for the extended part of the journey. So like everything, it depends on who you get.

One point of clarity: the destination "EDINBURGH" on a ticket absolutely means Edinburgh Waverley, and nowhere else. The other station is "HAYMARKET". Notice the distinct lack of "Edinburgh" in its name. A destination representing a group of stations will be printed on a ticket ending in "STNS" or "STATIONS", or will be "GAINSBOROUGH", "LONDON TERMINALS", or "GLASGOW CEN/QST".

 

[bb21]

I was refused a zero excess by SWT the other week and required to buy a new ticket for the extended part of the journey. So like everything, it depends on who you get.

I hope you reported him for that.

 

[route:oxford]

I was refused a zero excess by SWT the other week and required to buy a new ticket for the extended part of the journey. So like everything, it depends on who you get.

One point of clarity: the destination "EDINBURGH" on a ticket absolutely means Edinburgh Waverley, and nowhere else. The other station is "HAYMARKET". Notice the distinct lack of "Edinburgh" in its name. A destination representing a group of stations will be printed on a ticket ending in "STNS" or "STATIONS", or will be "GAINSBOROUGH", "LONDON TERMINALS", or "GLASGOW CEN/QST".

Can't say for the moment, but at one time - weren't some tickets to Edinburgh printed with:- EDIN/H'MKT?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....I think my best bet is to ask when I arrive At Edinburgh Waverley....

Your best bet is to get the excess before you board a train (zero fare), if you get it onboard the train you may be required to pay the single fare from Waverley to Haymarket (unless the office at the start of your journey is closed or unable/unwilling to do it) at £1.80 per person. If you wait until you get to Edinburgh you will almost certainly have to pay for the single at £1.80 per person.

 

[island]

Can't say for the moment, but at one time - weren't some tickets to Edinburgh printed with:- EDIN/H'MKT?

I have no idea. I have only lived in the UK since last December.

 

[scotsman]

Can't say for the moment, but at one time - weren't some tickets to Edinburgh printed with:- EDIN/H'MKT?

Yes, a few years ago when there were works at Waverley meaning that some services (mainly Fifes) terminated at HYM. This was also, AFAIK, when the fares to the two stations were made equal.

 

[34D]

On the way to Edinburgh, and I've asked three different guards to excess my ticket to Edinburgh Waverley into a Haymarket one. All have refused, saying they're the same price and so they can't do it.

As I started at an unstaffed station, do others agree that:

-i don't have to miss a connection at Waverley to visit a ticket office

-the first opportunity is therefore the barrier-line at Haymarket?

 

[CompactDstrxion]

On the way to Edinburgh, and I've asked three different guards to excess my ticket to Edinburgh Waverley into a Haymarket one. All have refused, saying they're the same price and so they can't do it.

As I started at an unstaffed station, do others agree that:

-i don't have to miss a connection at Waverley to visit a ticket office

-the first opportunity is therefore the barrier-line at Haymarket?

If you had time to visit any previous ticket office en-route (i.e. while changing trains), then no.

And those TMs are not being very helpful. If they say they can't do it then they should be explaining how you can complete your journey.

 

[CallySleeper]

A ticket marked to 'Edinburgh' will work the exit barriers at Haymarket, ditto in the opposite direction. I don't understand your post as there is no need to excess or change your ticket, unless you're not on a through train - your ticket won't work the 12-18 barriers at Edinburgh unless you ask one of the gate staff.

 

[CompactDstrxion]

Technically, if he tries to exit after travelling over-distance, he could be prosecuted though? He's just trying to get the right ticket!

 

[CallySleeper]

See yorkie's post above reverdistance, it depends where 34D is travelling from.

Technically, you could argue it is over-distance. In practice and experience, barriers at Haymarket will allow you to enter and exit with tickets marked 'Edinburgh', including advance purchase tickets. Also, as has been noted, there is no difference in fare between the two stations from an origin station. I've travelled between these stations for years and rarely had my ticket checked, let alone seen RPIs on ScotRail services. As I say, the biggest issue is most likely to be 12-18 gate staff at Edinburgh, but if you say that you're only going to Haymarket they could well let you through.