Escalators at angel Station

[Blindtraveler]

Passing through here a few days prior to Christmas and couldn't help noticing that the main up escalator, the longest one on the system and indeed all the escalators to a certain extent. But this one in particular were sounding decidedly unwell. When were these last replaced and how much of a major operation is it to replace them given that these are the only mode of access at this station?

 

[Mikey C]

Passing through here a few days prior to Christmas and couldn't help noticing that the main up escalator, the longest one on the system and indeed all the escalators to a certain extent. But this one in particular were sounding decidedly unwell. When were these last replaced and how much of a major operation is it to replace them given that these are the only mode of access at this station?

I'm not aware of them being replaced since the station was rebuilt in 1992, so they're 32 years old now...

 

[Recessio]

I'm not aware of them being replaced since the station was rebuilt in 1992, so they're 32 years old now...

And the ones replaced at Kentish Town were newer, only installed in 1997 (although interestingly all the ones from the Jubilee Line Extension built at a similar time seem to be fine, so maybe Kentish Town was a one-off?)

 

[Blindtraveler]

Wasn't aware the station had had a rebuild in the early 90s. Not sure how all the jubilee line extension ones are doing, I know there's been quite a few that have had heavy maintenance in recent times and the moving walkway at Waterloo has been off more than it's been on since the pandemic

 

[Dstock7080]

Wasn't aware the station had had a rebuild in the early 90s.

Prior to rebuilding there were no escalators at Angel, only very unreliable lifts.

 

[edwin_m]

Prior to rebuilding there were no escalators at Angel, only very unreliable lifts.

Also one of the three that still had an island platform. A new tunnel was added for one of the tracks, and the platform on the other is noticeably wider as it was originally the island and the second track.

I believe Angel was the last major rebuild of a station that didn't add step-free access.

 

[PG]

Wasn't aware the station had had a rebuild in the early 90s.

You might find the BBC 1989 documentary Heart of the Angel interesting. It shows Angel before it was rebuilt - one island platform and lifts, no escalators!

Available online at:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0074tkn

Heart of the Angel​

Acclaimed observational documentary by BAFTA award winning director Molly Dineen set at London’s Angel tube station in 1989, three years before its desperately needed renovation.

The programme provides a humorous account of 48 hours in the life of the tube station, from the daily round of fraught commuters, overburdened lifts and cancelled trains to the nightly activities when 'fluffers', women who clean human hair and rubbish off the tracks to avoid a fire hazard, and the Permanent Way, the gangs of men who work with pickaxes in almost pitch-black conditions to renovate parts of the track, spring into action to prepare the line for the following day.

 

[Snow1964]

Wasn't aware the station had had a rebuild in the early 90s.

Work actually started in late 1980s, The lifts used to rise to a surface building on City Road (corner of Torrens Street). There was short staircase at end of Island that led to passageways that served the lifts.

From memory there were three shafts, one with 2 older trapezium shape lifts (which had died few years before), one with two newer high speed lifts, and smaller third one with the long spiral staircase (which had about 350 steps)

The current entrance is quite a long distance away in Islington High Street (as the escalator shaft slopes at 30 degrees) and provision was made at intermediate lower level for links to the proposed platforms on Chelsea-Hackney line (which is why the intermediate level is so big to allow interchanges), although that line never got built.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I shall enjoy watching that at a later point

 

[sharpinf]

I believe Angel was the last major rebuild of a station that didn't add step-free access.

OT but when Shepherds Bush Central line station was redeveloped in 2008 for the arrival of Westfield lifts although planned didn't get added due to costs so it remains non step-free

 

[Mikey C]

Also one of the three that still had an island platform. A new tunnel was added for one of the tracks, and the platform on the other is noticeably wider as it was originally the island and the second track.

I believe Angel was the last major rebuild of a station that didn't add step-free access.

I wonder if the old lift shafts could be adapted to provided modern step free access, even if it was to a separate building to the newer main entrance?

 

[edwin_m]

I wonder if the old lift shafts could be adapted to provided modern step free access, even if it was to a separate building to the newer main entrance?

The usual problem is that very few stations had lifts right down to platform level, and Angel certainly didn't. Usually the tracks were under the street and the lift had to be under the station building off to one side with the motors within the building itself. So there would need to be a landing and steps at the bottom. So this sort of installation would need a second lift to get down into the area between the platforms, and I doubt LU would like the costs of owning and staffing a second entrance.

 

[Mojo]

I doubt LU would like the costs of owning and staffing a second entrance.

Although FWIW, that’s exactly what’s about to happen at Knightsbridge, with a (third) entrance due to open which will only have lifts down to the platform. This will utilise passageways under ground which were taken out of public use during the 1930s, when the lifts were replaced by escalators as the primary means of access to the platforms.

 

[trebor79]

The usual problem is that very few stations had lifts right down to platform level, and Angel certainly didn't. Usually the tracks were under the street and the lift had to be under the station building off to one side with the motors within the building itself. So there would need to be a landing and steps at the bottom. So this sort of installation would need a second lift to get down into the area between the platforms, and I doubt LU would like the costs of owning and staffing a second entrance.

I never understood why the lifts didn't go to platform level. Why couldn't they go right to the bottom, particularly when the lifts are in and island between the platforms? What's the point of them finishing at a slightly higher level and requiring a staircase?

Work actually started in late 1980s, The lifts used to rise to a surface building on City Road (corner of Torrens Street). There was short staircase at end of Island that led to passageways that served the lifts.

From memory there were three shafts, one with 2 older trapezium shape lifts (which had died few years before), one with two newer high speed lifts, and smaller third one with the long spiral staircase (which had about 350 steps)

The current entrance is quite a long distance away in Islington High Street (as the escalator shaft slopes at 30 degrees) and provision was made at intermediate lower level for links to the proposed platforms on Chelsea-Hackney line (which is why the intermediate level is so big to allow interchanges), although that line never got built.

Very interesting thank you.
And the Heart of the Angel documentary is amazing. It's hard to believe it was made in recent living memory. Not just the physical state of the station, but the attitudes and fashions are so different to today.

 

[edwin_m]

I never understood why the lifts didn't go to platform level. Why couldn't they go right to the bottom, particularly when the lifts are in and island between the platforms? What's the point of them finishing at a slightly higher level and requiring a staircase?

To expand on my previous post.

The tracks of even the deep tubes were nearly always run underneath streets, because running beneath property required paying compensation to the landowners. Bringing the lifts down between the tracks would have meant spreading them out much further and probably outside the width of the street. The lifts had entry one side and exit the other so would have had to be between two cross-passages and thus lined roughly perpendicular to the track, pushing the tracks a long way apart.

Also, as the lift shaft was vertical, it could only be underneath the station building which contained the lift motors as well as the surface level passenger facilities. This couldn't be in the middle of the street so the lifts were almost always off to the side of both tracks, with steps down from the lower landing to platform level.

As mentioned, the surface entrances to many stations having to be moved when converted to escalators. For all these reasons, even if the lift shafts and their accesses have not been blocked since a station was converted, they probably can't easily be re-purposed for step-free access. It should also be mentioned that the general expectation of universal accessibility for railway and other facilities didn't really exist until the very end of the 20th century.

 

[Blindtraveler]

And there are still quite a few examples of stations where there are steps from platform to lower lift lobby, Hampstead immediately springs to mind and doubtless others

 

[Mojo]

And there are still quite a few examples of stations where there are steps from platform to lower lift lobby, Hampstead immediately springs to mind and doubtless others

You’d be better off mentioning which of the original design lift stations don’t have steps from the lower lift landing to platform level, as there’s only two - Caledonian Road and Earls Court on the Piccadilly line.

 

[Mikey C]

The usual problem is that very few stations had lifts right down to platform level, and Angel certainly didn't. Usually the tracks were under the street and the lift had to be under the station building off to one side with the motors within the building itself. So there would need to be a landing and steps at the bottom. So this sort of installation would need a second lift to get down into the area between the platforms, and I doubt LU would like the costs of owning and staffing a second entrance.

I'm aware that the lift came down to a landing, but an already dug lift shaft is a good starting point if you're trying to make a station step free. Maybe it can be extended further down, seeing that the northbound platform has been shifted a fair way to the west, or a second small lift would need to be added, but in the course of the next 50 years you'd expect there to be a steady programme to make all major stations step free, and unlike other stations where the lift shafts were taken out of service 100 years ago, this is a relatively recent rebuild, so it may be more intact and not turned into a ventilation shaft for example.

 

[Blindtraveler]

You’d be better off mentioning which of the original design lift stations don’t have steps from the lower lift landing to platform level, as there’s only two - Caledonian Road and Earls Court on the Piccadilly line.

I bow to your superior knowledge and that of others, I'm a long way from having scratched all stations on the LU, think I'm sat somewhere on the round. The 50 Mark, truth is that a lot of my underground journeys are the same or variations on the same with very little variety.

 

[bramling]

You’d be better off mentioning which of the original design lift stations don’t have steps from the lower lift landing to platform level, as there’s only two - Caledonian Road and Earls Court on the Piccadilly line.

There are a couple more. York Road and King’s Cross also had lifts which went down to platform level. Ironically, the original C&SLR stations tended to have step-free or minimal steps to platforms when the railway first opened. The odd remnant of this still survives, for example at Borough.

I'm aware that the lift came down to a landing, but an already dug lift shaft is a good starting point if you're trying to make a station step free. Maybe it can be extended further down, seeing that the northbound platform has been shifted a fair way to the west, or a second small lift would need to be added, but in the course of the next 50 years you'd expect there to be a steady programme to make all major stations step free, and unlike other stations where the lift shafts were taken out of service 100 year, this is a relatively recent rebuild, so it may be more intact and not turned into a ventilation shaft for example.

Many former lift shafts serve as vent shafts, or house equipment rooms. I’m not sure what’s happening at Knightsbridge, as I think the new lifts are occupying a shaft that has been used for draught-relief for many years, and generally the view is that any works carried out should not result in the loss of a ventilation facility. I don’t think the Angel shafts serve a ventilation purpose though, however they likely carry cables as the original street level building was partially converted to a substation a few years ago.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The other big factor when it comes to installing or reinstalling lifts at stations going forward is that machine room less s technology is very much a thing now and so the need for large spaces for plant and machinery is far less as often. Motors and running gear can be located within the shaft itself
Can be saved here, a local department store to where my parents live replaced. Its lift completely a couple of years ago and the space freed up by new technology allowed installation of a dedicated wheelchair accessible toilet for the first time

 

[edwin_m]

I'm aware that the lift came down to a landing, but an already dug lift shaft is a good starting point if you're trying to make a station step free. Maybe it can be extended further down, seeing that the northbound platform has been shifted a fair way to the west, or a second small lift would need to be added, but in the course of the next 50 years you'd expect there to be a steady programme to make all major stations step free, and unlike other stations where the lift shafts were taken out of service 100 years ago, this is a relatively recent rebuild, so it may be more intact and not turned into a ventilation shaft for example.

Extending it further down doesn't help if it's on the wrong side of the tracks to connect to the platform, which will almost always be the case for at least one track (except where the platforms are above each other and both on the appropriate side, probably somewhere between rare and non-existent).

If at least one of the original shafts can be made accessible at surface level and at the lower landing, then it may be possible to put a lift in that and a stairlift or one of those new sloping lifts on one of the sets of stairs from the lower landing down to the platforms. This would be a low-capacity solution but would only need to serve those who couldn't use the escalator or stairs. Looking at the axonometric view on https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground-station-ab-14630/ it appears the access from the lower landing to the original island platform still exists, and passengers could then get to the northbound platform via a cross-passage, but connecting direct to the northbound might clash with the escalator tunnel.

 

[Recessio]

Where does the safeguarded Crossrail 2 route come into it? Does it plan to reuse the former station entrance as an additional entrance? (Surely for capacity reasons, let alone accessibility, they couldn't just stick with the one entrance?) If so, could they make it step-free to the old entrance on the corner of Torrens Street?

 

[londontransit]

You’d be better off mentioning which of the original design lift stations don’t have steps from the lower lift landing to platform level, as there’s only two - Caledonian Road and Earls Court on the Piccadilly line.

Caledonian Road/Earl's Court are the only original ones? There are more stations than that. I wrote about those a while back - as a disabled traveller who has an interest in issues of accessibility on TfL - I should know!

As for the issues at Angel, again the whole issue of accessibility is built on what are no doubt a lack of vision. I did point out some of the answers some months back but no-one seemed to care they were only interested in bashing me claiming I had written fallacious stuff. I mean lifts can be built at Angel but its the faff of doing it. They can also be built at Oxford Circus and a few other stations too, but again its the faff involved. Even Kentish Town could have had lifts (remember disability groups campaigned for these to be installed during the station's year and half closure?) and that is despite the fact the lower level leads to platforms on a split level. The early tube pioneers (as I pointed out previously) were far more astute than many think!

Angel was a missed opportunity - like so many others will be.

 

[Mojo]

Caledonian Road/Earl's Court are the only original ones? There are more stations than that. I wrote about those a while back - as a disabled traveller who has an interest in issues of accessibility on TfL - I should know!

They are the only operational “lift stations” where the lifts go all the way down to platform level, all the other lift stations have the lifts go to a lower concourse and then steps to platform level.

 

[londontransit]

They are the only operational “lift stations” where the lifts go all the way down to platform level, all the other lift stations have the lifts go to a lower concourse and then steps to platform level.

They are not the only ones. I think you missed two others at least still have lifts to platform level (they are marked on TfL step free and TfL Go). There were even more before escalators became the norm.

 

[edwin_m]

They are not the only ones. I think you missed two others at least still have lifts to platform level (they are marked on TfL step free and TfL Go). There were even more before escalators became the norm.

If you are aware of others then please tell us which ones! This discussion is about stations built new with lifts and no steps between the lift and the platforms. For this TfL maps aren't very helpful, as they also include stations which had lifts added later.

 

[londontransit]

If you are aware of others then please tell us which ones! This discussion is about stations built new with lifts and no steps between the lift and the platforms. For this TfL maps aren't very helpful, as they also include stations which had lifts added later.

As for Angel being a new station you are right, but the discussion is also recursively about how Angel could have lifts installed in the old station in order to solve the issue of having zilch accessibility in the new one.

 

[edwin_m]

As for Angel being a new station you are right, but the discussion is also recursively about how Angel could have lifts installed in the old station in order to solve the issue of having zilch accessibility in the new one.

Disagreeing with another poster and then declining to provide any justification for your statement doesn't help your credibility (I've already pointed out the TfL accessiblity map isn't relevant). If were to name these stations then at least people can review what you say and either agree you are correct or politely point out if they think you are not.

There was no possibility of installing lifts down to platform level at Angel before the re-build. The video linked upthread shows how close the tracks are, probably the closest of any Tube station apart from the two in Clapham that are still similar. It would have been impossible to put enough lifts in between them to cope with the passenger flow.

 

[vinnym70]

I know the current expectation is that new stations should include step-free access. Is Angel, perhaps, the last major station redevelopment where the lack of step-free access was accepted without falling foul of regulations?