European Sleeper experience

[MattSGB]

I really want to support European Sleeper and it is a highly convenient route for me. However, here is a summary of my journey from Brussels to Prague last weekend. Make of it what you will...

• We were booked into a double sleeper compartment. Two days before travelling I noticed that the only sleeper carriage failed to return from Prague (according to the "real time" information on their website). So I was half expecting a downgrade.
• At the platform, we had to walk up and down the platform to be sure that our carriage was not attached. The carriage numbering is in no particular order so we had to walk the whole length twice. The staff didn't seem aware of the sleeper's absence, but eventually gave us a new carriage and compartment number upon consulting their iPad.
• We had been downgraded to a five person couchette. To our dismay, we were told that three others would join us in Amsterdam. Luckily it was a family and everything was civilised. However, the dad may have been unimpressed that his two teenage daughters had been sharing what should have been a private compartment with men.
• The initial staff were completely unapologetic and it quickly became clear that everyone else in that carriage had also been downgraded. It seemed like they had booked two carriages of sleeper passengers and squeezed them all into a couchette. Everyone we spoke to said they had received no communication about the change.
• There was a man in his late seventies or eighties who was travelling alone and was distressed to have to share a compartment. He had booked a single sleeper (i.e. private) but the staff were telling him that "single" meant one space and that he must have messed up the booking! Do they think it is OK to lie because he was elderly?
• The curtains in our compartment were a joke. There was one curtain only on the exterior window that covered about a third of it. Over the corridor door were two curtains that only covered about two thirds of the windows. The corridor lights were making sleep difficult.
• A Belgian stag party were occupying the bicycle space in the adjacent carriage. They had packed an inflatable doll with them and they were so loud that it sounded like a football match (and that's from from the next carriage, with the gangway doors closed and the train in motion).
• Announcements were made that you could make purchases from the attendant. The attendant compartment in our carriage was unstaffed until the morning, and being the rear carriage we would have had to brave the stag party to reach another attendant.
• One toilet was out of use from the outset. The second toilet had a toilet seat that was completely detached from the toilet. It would fall off completely when touched. So for any women needing the toilet, they had to venture into the next carriage past the stag party. At some point the second toilet was also locked out of use. There was no soap in any toilet that we used and the nearest functional toilet (in the party carriage) had no running water.
• In the morning we went into the corridor to view the stunning Elbe valley, but it was somewhat tarnished by one of the stag party members coming into our carriage to throw up in the bin in the corridor.
• There has been zero communication from European Sleeper other than an email shortly before booking stating the there was a change in the schedule (a diversion in the Netherlands).

I understand the stock issues, but a small operator like this needs to nail the customer service. They seem to do the opposite. There were 11 carriages on our service, but on other days they seemed to have 15 carriages. Surely they could have found another couchette to avoid downgrading people to shared compartments.

I have the return journey to look forward to next week.

 

[StephenHunter]

Send a complaint to them directly. They owe you a refund, I would say.

 

[MattSGB]

Send a complaint to them directly. They owe you a refund, I would say.

They'll certainly be getting an email this week. Their compensation policy seems poor but I'll be aiming for a full refund.

 

[rvdborgt]

They'll certainly be getting an email this week. Their compensation policy seems poor but I'll be aiming for a full refund.

The least you're entitled to is the difference between the booked comfort class and the class you ended up in. But given your experience, I'd also be aiming for a bit more.

 

[MattSGB]

I'm getting nervous again now as the sleeper carriage has again disappeared from their train composition page, for both last night's trip to Prague and today's journey back. I am due to travel on Tuesday. Honestly, if they downgrade us to a shared couchette again I will never use European Sleeper again (and I travel to Prague at least twice per year). They really shouldn't be selling their trains out unless they have available replacement couchettes to avoid making people share compartments.

 

[StephenHunter]

I'm getting nervous again now as the sleeper carriage has again disappeared from their train composition page, for both last night's trip to Prague and today's journey back. I am due to travel on Tuesday. Honestly, if they downgrade us to a shared couchette again I will never use European Sleeper again (and I travel to Prague at least twice per year). They really shouldn't be selling their trains out unless they have available replacement couchettes to avoid making people share compartments.

This is a problem you face when your sleeper carriage is literally old enough to have had the CIWL name on the side.

 

[Ringo2112]

Happened to me on Nightjet. Booked a single sleeper compartment Venice to Vienna. No sleepers to Vienna. People had to ride in coach and there were some families there who had booked sleeper compartments. I jumped off in Venice Mestre. I wasn't putting up with that nonsense.

 

[doc7austin]

deleted due to duplication

 

[MattSGB]

I was on that train. Luckily I was reserved onto the table behind the YouTuber (it was you doc7austin?) so I wasn't on the video. Most of the food was alright. I enjoyed the kulajda soup and the sushi was reasonably good (wow the wasabi was hot). The staff were trying hard and did a good job. I'd avoid the vegan/gluten free options if you can (as they were unsurprisingly horrible), the panna cotta in the video was vegan so no real cream in that. My companion needed gluten free options but unfortunately that meant also choosing vegan - despite the gluten free pumpkin soup coming out with a baguette, oops! Beer selection was good.

Apart from the dining car, the journey itself was horrible again. We were again downgraded to a couchette, although thankfully it was private this time. We did actually receive emails in advance this time and a promise of an automatic partial refund. The facilities were much better than before, apart from an incomprehensible absolutely disgusting mess that someone made on one toilet, I'll spare you a description. European Sleeper did give me a fair refund for the outbound journey and they seemed to have improved on the things I complained about. This time we had working toilets with soap in them and the curtains looked fairly new. However, there was some kind of problem with the axel under our compartment and on quite a few stretches of track there was a deep grinding/vibration occurring that ear plugs couldn't drown out. Barely any sleep for us. With hindsight I should have asked to move as the train was mostly empty. Early into the journey, the train seemed to make an emergency stop for some reason. You could smell the brakes in the corridors.

The train was on a really extensive diversion, bypassing Amsterdam, Rotterdam and other places, and calling at other stops where it seemed that no one got off. There were also some complex reversing maneuvers that saw us call at and depart an unscheduled station in the Netherlands, travel a few miles, do a complex and time consuming reversal on a busy mainline, before travelling back through the same station again.

 

[DanielB]

The train was on a really extensive diversion, bypassing Amsterdam, Rotterdam and other places, and calling at other stops where it seemed that no one got off. There were also some complex reversing maneuvers that saw us call at and depart an unscheduled station in the Netherlands, travel a few miles, do a complex and time consuming reversal on a busy mainline, before travelling back through the same station again.

There are works around Wierden, which make it impossible to get anywhere in the Netherlands after crossing the border in Bad Bentheim. So European Sleeper is diverted via Emmerich instead.
You've had the most complex diversion looking at the history at treinposities.nl (search for train numbers 454 and 452), passing through Utrecht to reverse at Maarssen (I presume the train was too long for the middle track there, so it had to reverse at the main line Utrecht - Amsterdam). Also see a stop at Geldermalsen, probably to be overtaken by another train.

I see other trains the week before going directly from the German border towards Breda. Though possibly paths there were already in use due to the delay. (Arnhem - Breda has a capacity constraint due to a single track bridge at Ravenstein). Arnhem - Utrecht - Rotterdam appears not to be used as diversion, possibly due to connecting paths not being available as loads of cargo trains that usually go via Bad Bentheim need to be diverted.

 

[MattSGB]

There are works around Wierden, which make it impossible to get anywhere in the Netherlands after crossing the border in Bad Bentheim. So European Sleeper is diverted via Emmerich instead.
You've had the most complex diversion looking at the history at treinposities.nl (search for train numbers 454 and 452), passing through Utrecht to reverse at Maarssen (I presume the train was too long for the middle track there, so it had to reverse at the main line Utrecht - Amsterdam). Also see a stop at Geldermalsen, probably to be overtaken by another train.

I see other trains the week before going directly from the German border towards Breda. Though possibly paths there were already in use due to the delay. (Arnhem - Breda has a capacity constraint due to a single track bridge at Ravenstein). Arnhem - Utrecht - Rotterdam appears not to be used as diversion, possibly due to connecting paths not being available as loads of cargo trains that usually go via Bad Bentheim need to be diverted.

It was definitely a more interesting route than I had expected (having travelled their usual route before). I assume it must take some real organisation to get drivers who can deal with all those routes, I did wonder if some of the extra stops were to pick up new drivers, rather than to drop off non-existent passengers.

 

[Starmill]

Not enough soap / water / toilet paper etc is pretty inexcusable for an overnight service. People clearly do not have any alternative facilities for many, many hours so these need to be properly serviced before departure every time. Starting the journey with a toilet locked out and no hand soap isn't good enough. The person vomiting is horrible but at least if all of the toilets had been in order per they might have done it in there...

 

[AdamWW]

There are works around Wierden, which make it impossible to get anywhere in the Netherlands after crossing the border in Bad Bentheim. So European Sleeper is diverted via Emmerich instead.
You've had the most complex diversion looking at the history at treinposities.nl (search for train numbers 454 and 452), passing through Utrecht to reverse at Maarssen (I presume the train was too long for the middle track there, so it had to reverse at the main line Utrecht - Amsterdam). Also see a stop at Geldermalsen, probably to be overtaken by another train.

I see other trains the week before going directly from the German border towards Breda. Though possibly paths there were already in use due to the delay. (Arnhem - Breda has a capacity constraint due to a single track bridge at Ravenstein). Arnhem - Utrecht - Rotterdam appears not to be used as diversion, possibly due to connecting paths not being available as loads of cargo trains that usually go via Bad Bentheim need to be diverted.

Doing a test booking out of curiousity, I was impressed that their web site handled this in a sensible manner - accepting bookings from Amsterdam but then making it very clear that instead it would leave from Utrecht.

 

[DanielB]

I assume it must take some real organisation to get drivers who can deal with all those routes,

Well, TrainCharter which provides traction for European Sleeper is a regular operator in the Netherlands. So their drivers probably will have route knowledge on many routes.
The diversion via Emmerich already avoids some routes where they're less likely to have route knowledge. Infrastructure-wise a diversion via Hengelo - Zutphen - Apeldoorn with diesel loco would be possible, though TrainCharter drivers likely don't have route knowledge there. (And fitting the train on a single track line would also be challenging)

I did wonder if some of the extra stops were to pick up new drivers, rather than to drop off non-existent passengers.

I do notice that somehow your train on Wednesday-morning has reduced it's delay by 25 minutes between Arnhem and Utrecht, so it may have skipped a stop at that line (Maarn Goederen is often used for that).
But looking in the timetable:
- the stop in Maarssen was necessary for reversing (and the stop along a platform you mention probably enabled a driver to walk towards a locomotive at the rear of the train)
- the stop in Geldermalsen seems to have been skipped (arrival and departure at the same time), likely a stop used to get in the right path.

Any other stops aren't in the timetable, so when you've stopped more often that will probably have been due to a red signal.

 

[doc7austin]

I was on that train. Luckily I was reserved onto the table behind the YouTuber (it was you doc7austin?) so I wasn't on the video.

next time, I will say hi or you can say hi

 

[Giugiaro]

Unfortunately, I couldn't make it to the European Sleeper I had booked to travel from Brussels to Berlin. The TGV I needed to make the long journey from Lyon Part-Dieu was fully booked and I had no other alternative that would arrive on time to Brussels.

I decided to route through Basel SBB and was given a reservation on an ÖBB sitting car. Since only one passenger boarded the same compartment, we both had the opportunity to sleep through the whole night lying down.

 

[Frothy]

I took European Sleeper from Prague to Brussels in a 6-person couchette recently.
trip from Prague to Brussels on European Sleeper
Overall impression was positive!

 

[stuartmoss]

I did the European Sleeper from Rotterdam to Dresden in September and apart from two power cuts, a diversion and delay it went ok. Thankfully my room was there! This was the sleeper carriage that I had. It was a bit old but it did the job mostly, although I didn’t really sleep much as it was wobbly and everything seemed to bang and rattle. Does anyone know how old these carriages are?

 

[AdamWW]

Their train descriptions seem to be showing only couchette coaches running - no sleepers - and no seated coaches?

I wonder if that means that if you buy a seated ticket you get a free upgrade. Or do they come round making sure you haven't sneakily put the beds down?

 

[rvdborgt]

Their train descriptions seem to be showing only couchette coaches running - no sleepers - and no seated coaches?

The train is supposed to have seats, couchettes and sleepers:

vagonWEB » Řazení vlaků

www.vagonweb.cz

 

[AdamWW]

The train is supposed to have seats, couchettes and sleepers:

vagonWEB » Řazení vlaků

www.vagonweb.cz

Indeed it is.

But the real time compositions on their web site here seem to show neither sleeper nor seats coaches.

And actually one of the "real compositions" on wagonweb seems to be missing seated coaches.

 

[rvdborgt]

But the real time compositions on their web site here seem to show neither sleeper nor seats coaches.

And actually one of the "real compositions" on wagonweb seems to be missing seated coaches.

Ah, I hadn't noticed they now show their real train compositions. That's indeed interesting. I'd be inclined to put the berths down indeed...

 

[popeter45]

the website composition (e.g. no sleeper or seats) has been like that for a few days, wonder if there is some bigger issue with the sleepers needing to be looked at?
or being used for the Tui express?

 

[danchester]

Yes the sleepers have been absent for a couple of weeks now. Not sure the exact reason but when they have been running they've been particularly unreliable of late so it might be for the best.

And I believe that when they've needed seats cars they've just been using couchette cars set up in day mode, but I stand to be corrected.

 

[AdamWW]

And I believe that when they've needed seats cars they've just been using couchette cars set up in day mode, but I stand to be corrected.

Makes sense but seems a bit pointless. Even without whatever bedding they provide in a real couchette, why have 6 people spending the night sitting up when there are bunks available?

Unless I suppose the bunks don't work any more...

 

[MattSGB]

Makes sense but seems a bit pointless. Even without whatever bedding they provide in a real couchette, why have 6 people spending the night sitting up when there are bunks available?

Unless I suppose the bunks don't work any more...

Maybe they use the couchette that is missing half the curtains , i.e. like the one they downgraded me to from a private sleeper to a shared couchette a few weeks ago.

When the dining car runs, that has seating in the non-dining half.

I hope they get this all sorted out because they are rapidly losing their customer base. Although I would give them another chance, I don't think my other half is going to ever let me book with them again.

 

[StephenHunter]

I did the European Sleeper from Rotterdam to Dresden in September and apart from two power cuts, a diversion and delay it went ok. Thankfully my room was there! This was the sleeper carriage that I had. It was a bit old but it did the job mostly, although I didn’t really sleep much as it was wobbly and everything seemed to bang and rattle. Does anyone know how old these carriages are?

Most of the ES sleepers are AB30s; 1990s rebuilds of the 1950s CIWL Type P. So, yeah, pretty old.

 

[popeter45]

Most of the ES sleepers are AB30s; 1990s rebuilds of the 1950s CIWL Type P. So, yeah, pretty old.

now they have proven the service popular i hope next step is trying to get hold of newer sleepers or at least easier to maintain ones

 

[Fragezeichnen]

now they have proven the service popular i hope next step is trying to get hold of newer sleepers or at least easier to maintain ones

What newer sleepers? From who?

The basic problem is that in the late 90's all investment into night trains stopped and it was assume they would eventually die off, rendered obsolete by high speed services and low cost flights. Now the renaissance has come and even big players like ÖBB have to borrow, scrounge and run without proper reserves(they also have significant problems with missing sleeper coaches).
The only new builds for others are the Nightjets for ÖBB(inflexible, high lead time for any follow up orders, and existing stock probably retained for service expansion/spares/reserve) and some for domestic Italian services, perhaps some 2nd hand potential there but those carriages are also old and might have problems running internationally.
New builds for ES themselves would take years and probably only financially possible if a backer could be persuaded to buy them and lease them to ES.

Somewhere rotting away in Russia are several sets of very nice and modern 2012-built Siemens-built night train sets, gauge-change compatible and already approved for all countries between Russia and France. But good luck getting hold of them!

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Now the renaissance has come and even big players like ÖBB have to borrow, scrounge and run without proper reserves(they also have significant problems with missing sleeper coaches).

Jon Worth has started an entire campaign arguing that the European Commission (or someone) needs to step in and finance new sleepers night train carriages.

The campaign to scale up night trains - Trains for Europe

Too few night trains run in Europe right now. Our demand: that the EU organise the procurement of a new fleet of night trains. This will allow cross-border overnight services to be swiftly scaled up. The problem: the companies that could provide international night trains in Europe (Deutsche...

trainsforeurope.eu

The problem: the companies that could provide international night trains in Europe (Deutsche Bahn, SNCF, Trenitalia, Renfe, PKP etc.) currently have no intention of doing so, while the smaller companies that would like to provide these services (RegioJet, European Sleeper, Snälltåget etc.) do not have the means to do so.

There are very few night train carriages (rolling stock) available on the leasing market, and what is available is often very old.

So the way to scale up night trains is to procure new carriages, and to allow operators to lease these.

This is a Europe-wide problem – as pretty much all the important and viable night train routes are cross-border. Hence we demand that the European Union steps in to solve the problem – the EU has to set up the framework to allow the procurement of a fleet of new night trains.

Trains for Europe is not a train company, but a campaign. It is not about why night trains are a good idea, but about how to scale them up. It is founded by Jon Worth, long time blogger and commentator on EU transport policy and is independent of all railway companies and operators. The priority is that new night train connections run, not who it is that runs them.

IIRC RZD use the Siemens sleepers in domestic trains but their older RIC sleepers are out of use because they don't fit any of the domestic sleeper categories. Before 2022 there were rumours that one of the night train start-ups was trying to negotiate a lease of surplus sleepers from RZD.