Ex BR 37214 future?

[Ivatt5MT]

I found this excellent video of a Class 37, 37124, being lifted in the Bo'ness and Kinneil heritage Railway diesel sheds.

It got me thinking; Before seeing this video, I've always walked past 37124 (she had been residing in the fiddleyard reserved for locos and rolling stock considered scrap) and considered her gone, lost to time, rusting and rotting away to nothingness. But after this bogie lift I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe, she could be saved. I know that the traction motors had been removed prior and were intact enough to refurbish, and these bogies look decent enough to me. It'd be a big job, but what's stopping the brilliant folks over at Bo'ness to give the shell a new paint job and send the salvaged parts away for refurb? Considering what they've done in the past concerning restoration, it'd be only just possible to refurb this beautiful loco back to her original glory!

Having said that, there are a lot of projects going on right now. They're restoring a mixed traffic tank engine, and also the massive project ongoing currently to refurb a loco from Africa that had been sent over during the war to help the troops. But the mixed traffic engine, last time I saw it, was only getting a new paint job at the moment, and the African locomotive (a Black 5 iirc, if someone can correct me please do) hasn't had any work done on it for years now. Nevermind the upkeep of their running engines. They have a rather large fleet of diesels and a small collection of 0-6-0 Austerity class steamies in perfect running order. However...

The only worry I have is that this particular 37 has been cannibalized for parts. For years now, if an engine has needed a replacement part, they've went to 37124. The English Electric traction motor it had would've probably been a suitable part donor for most of their fleet. They've got Class 50s galore, a few Class 08s and a few others. Over the time she's been docile in her sad state she's lost probably half of her parts. Used to keep other engines running.

So, does anyone know of the prospects of this lovely lady's future? Will she lay dormant, or return to her own power?

Cheers.

 

[Royston Vasey]

It's 37214.

It's now on scrap accommodation bogies having been stripped of its own bogies (and I think traction motors) for overhaul. I would guess they are very likely to end up under 37261. 214 is the designated Scottish 37 Group "spare loco" designated for component recovery, i.e. very likely to be scrapped. I have no inside information, I should add.

Edit: This video gives more detail and in the description it is stated "37214 is being used for spares for 37261" so I wouldn't hold your breath!

 

[Ivatt5MT]

I apologize for my mistake; I forever seem to be messing up this loco's number! Sorry, 3712- I mean 37214! Anyways, it's such a shame to see locomotives cannibalized like this. But I guess it's better to see existing locomotives kept in running order instead of reviving an old locomotive and making the rest of them scarce for parts. D'you think if they tried they'd be able to revive this old beast? Just curious.

Y'know, they could even repaint it in it's original livery, leave the scrap bogies on it, shunt it into the museum and leave it on static display. No semi-modern locomotives like this are in the museum; iirc, the most modern thing in there is an early electric locomotive from the Modernization Plan era.

 

[Harvester]

Having said that, there are a lot of projects going on right now. They're restoring a mixed traffic tank engine, and also the massive project ongoing currently to refurb a loco from Africa that had been sent over during the war to help the troops. But the mixed traffic engine, last time I saw it, was only getting a new paint job at the moment, and the African locomotive (a Black 5 iirc, if someone can correct me please do) hasn't had any work done on it for years now. Nevermind the upkeep of their running engines. They have a rather large fleet of diesels and a small collection of 0-6-0 Austerity class steamies in perfect running order. However...

The mixed traffic loco is an 8F, which saw service in Turkey during WW2.

 

[Ivatt5MT]

The mixed traffic loco is an 8F, which saw service in Turkey during WW2.

You'd think that since this is my closest heritage railway I'd get my facts right... Apparently not.

 

[Alanko]

The bogies from 37214 are going under 37025 while 025's bogies and/or wheelsets get some attention.

It's a sad end to 214, as it was repainted into BR blue and headed up some rail tours circa 2005 prior to WCR taking it on. Then it became just another maroon lump at Carnforth.

I saw 261 up close fairly recently at it doesn't look like much has been happening to it since I last saw it in late 2019.

 

[BigB]

Just to clarify before anyone suggests that Bo'ness try and restore this 37....
37 261 is being rebuilt by the same group who own 37025 - its not the SRPS. Work has been going on but much is not immediately visible.
The mixed traffic engine 80105 is owned by Locomotive Owners Group Scotland who are rebuilding it following its 10 year overhaul - frequent visitors will see the progress.
SRPS already own and maintain main line registered 37403 - they really don't need another 37.
Have you any idea how much painting a loco costs (time and money) and what should be removed to put 37214 on display?

The Turkish 8F is a long term project for SRPS, but very little is actively happening on this engine. Its place in the shed is more to raise awareness of the project (and hopefully donations).

There is, as you can see from the videos shared from others at Bo'ness, plenty of work going on already to maintain the SRPS home fleet, including the mainline registered rail-tour fleet. External work, such as repairing class 57 bogies or swapping bogies on class 56s is always welcome though, even if it may slightly change the plans...

Just sayin...

 

[Ivatt5MT]

I guess she was in a sorry state anyways. It would've been a huge job to repair her, and taking another look at her current state, I'm taking back my words. Would it even be possible to restore her even if she was relocated to a much bigger and more able railway with enough funding to do so? 37214 probably has most of her original parts gone. And you do make a good point mentioning that SRPS already have 37403. What a sad end for a nice enough looking loco...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I guess she was in a sorry state anyways. It would've been a huge job to repair her, and taking another look at her current state, I'm taking back my words. Would it even be possible to restore her even if she was relocated to a much bigger and more able railway with enough funding to do so? 37214 probably has most of her original parts gone. And you do make a good point mentioning that SRPS already have 37403. What a sad end for a nice enough looking loco...

If you throw enough money at it, anything is "possible"...
Pretty much any loco from the 1950s/60s is likely to be a "Ship of Theseus" situation anyway. Ultimately there are enough 37s in preservation already, and those numbers do at least point to the success of the design. Of course we all have our "favourite" locos and would rather those were saved than one of the classmates... but if one must go so another can live, so be it.

Just be glad it isn't suffering the indignity that sister-loco 37372 did!

 

[Alanko]

Would it even be possible to restore her even if she was relocated to a much bigger and more able railway with enough funding to do so?

Yes. Find another 37 to break for parts first.

I don't think a 'bigger and more able railway' matters in this instance. The various groups at Bo'ness have demonstrated that they have the facilities to work on steam and diesel locomotives, and the ability to restore carriages (beyond Mk1s at that). They are picking up commercial work for WCR and Colas, so clearly know what they are doing.

37214 is the parts mule for a small special-interest group that happen to be based at Bo'ness. Don't think of Bo'ness as a single entity here but as an ecosystem of various groups who happen to share the same site, facilities and rolling stock, etc.

Ultimately it will come down to cost and the value of saving a 37. You could potentially pluck another 37 out the scrap line at Carnforth that has had fewer parts removed. There are also the DRS 37s coming up for sale that will be in much better condition.

 

[Ivatt5MT]

If you throw enough money at it, anything is "possible"...
Pretty much any loco from the 1950s/60s is likely to be a "Ship of Theseus" situation anyway. Ultimately there are enough 37s in preservation already, and those numbers do at least point to the success of the design. Of course we all have our "favourite" locos and would rather those were saved than one of the classmates... but if one must go so another can live, so be it.

Just be glad it isn't suffering the indignity that sister-loco 37372 did!

There's something about 37214 that I can't shake. There's just... I just like it so much. I love all the Class 37s, and pretty much every BR Blue era train too, but there's a mysterious soft spot in me for 37214.

I have to say I'm unaware of what happened to 37372. Could you fill me in?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There's something about 37214 that I can't shake. There's just... I just like it so much. I love all the Class 37s, and pretty much every BR Blue era train too, but there's a mysterious soft spot in me for 37214.

I have to say I'm unaware of what happened to 37372. Could you fill me in?

37372 was the donor loco for the Baby Deltic project (unless I'm mistaken which is quite likely, though if so I'm surprised I haven't already been corrected!).

My personal favourite 37 was 37430 which was cut up long ago... at least it's available in model form now.

 

[sprinterguy]

37372 was the donor loco for the Baby Deltic project (unless I'm mistaken which is quite likely, though if so I'm surprised I haven't already been corrected!).

Yep, 37372 is/was indeed the loco used as the basis for that project - Link below to the project website for anyone wanting further information:

Baby Deltic Project

The website for the Baby Deltic Project, news, sales and updates on the project.

www.babydeltic.co.uk

My personal favourite 37 was 37430 which was cut up long ago... at least it's available in model form now.

Though 37430 has been produced in model form previously by Lima (BR Mainline livery) and Vitrains (Transrail livery), albeit not to as high a fidelity as the new Bachmann version of course.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Though 37430 has been produced in model form previously by Lima (BR Mainline livery) and Vitrains (Transrail livery), albeit not to as high a fidelity as the new Bachmann version of course.

Of course, I should have specified the large logo version, which I travelled behind in 1989 as a lad. I even own an example of the ViTrains Transrail version despite post-privatisation models usually being anathema to me!

 

[sprinterguy]

Of course, I should have specified the large logo version, which I travelled behind in 1989 as a lad. I even own an example of the ViTrains Transrail version despite post-privatisation models usually being anathema to me!

Ah, yeah fair enough!

 

[D365]

If a heritage operation wants to invest in a serviceable Class 37, I suspect that DRS would be a port of call

 

[BigB]

If a heritage operation wants to invest in a serviceable Class 37, I suspect that DRS would be a port of call

Yes and no.... SRPS had 37703 on long term loan, but when it was put up for sale there was no way we could have justified the cost to buy it...

Much as I like 37s, two main line operational engines and one being rebuilt is surely enough for one railway

 

[Alanko]

Yes and no.... SRPS had 37703 on long term loan, but when it was put up for sale there was no way we could have justified the cost to buy it...

703 would have needed a bit of work to make it look heritage-y as well?

 

[BigB]

703 would have needed a bit of work to make it look heritage-y as well?

It had 37067 on one side - what more do you need
If it had stayed then who can tell what repaint it would have had - if someone stumps up the cash then its dealers choice really. Personally green would have been ideal, but there's still 37261 of course, which would be cool if also returned to the main line.

Back to 37214, it is actually morphing back to BR blue livery - where the West Coast maroon is peeling the old blue paint is clearly visible. In a few years it will probably have the most original paint of the whole fleet.

 

[Ivatt5MT]

Old girl was so infuriated by being repainted in a nasty maroon she is changing her own colors! BR Blue and the Railfreight Grey in my eyes has always been the best livery for a 37.

 

[D365]

37 261 is being rebuilt by the same group who own 37025 - its not the SRPS…
SRPS already own and maintain main line registered 37403 - they really don't need another 37.

Just to check my understanding. It looks like SPRS (37403) is an entirely separate organisation to Scottish Thirty-Seven Group Limited (37025 & 37261)?

 

[BigB]

Just to check my understanding. It looks like SPRS (37403) is an entirely separate organisation to Scottish Thirty-Seven Group Limited (37025 & 37261)?

Not really a difficult concept - Scottish Railway Preservation Society are a registered charity and operators of the Kinneil and Bo'ness Railway. They own the infrastructure, most of the engines on site and the stock.
Scottish 37 group are a private group who have Bo'ness as their base, but maintain their own engine(s). Most if not all S37G members are also SRPS members and work on other engines SRPS own too.
It's quite a common thing at railways up and down the country.
Unlike a lot of "private" groups at other railways, the 37 group have their own storage facility which is very well organised and engines aside, you almost wouldn't know they were there. Even the clas 37 bogie being stripped for overhaul inside the shed is never really in the way!

 

[Alanko]

Not really a difficult concept...

I've never understood why preservation types get so shirty when people don't immediately grasp the Byzantine, incestuous setups at various heritage railways.


It gets very People's Front of Judea/Judean People's Front very quickly when your aims are broadly the same and your rolling stock is broadly the same.... and all your members look, sound and generally smell the same as well.

 

[D365]

Thanks for the explanation. I’ve not yet been up to Bo’ness myself, but given that Class 37s are constantly changing hands, it helps me to have an idea of who I may (or may not) be working with in the future.

 

[plarailfan]

I saw 37 214 in a sorry state at Barrow Hill and was subsequently, surprised to find it had been restored. It's a pity it's ended up in a mess again
https://www.flickr.com/photos/41294071@N02/5445305489/in/photolist-9ibBBp

 

[Wyrleybart]

Thanks for the explanation. I’ve not yet been up to Bo’ness myself, but given that Class 37s are constantly changing hands, it helps me to have an idea of who I may (or may not) be working with in the future.

I think "constantly" is a little excessive. I think the most recent class 37 sales were the DRS ones last year which were bought by HNRC and LSL. That was only really because DRS had the tender lists published to sell them. HNRC quickly reactivated 37405 and painted it and 37607 orange and black. LSL bought 37059 and 37409 from the tender lists and I think Harry had all the others apart from 37606 which I believe us owned by the same chap as 37418.

The only other class 37 sale / movement AIUI is 37240 which is reputed to have moved to Vintage Trains at Tyseley.

 

[D365]

I think "constantly" is a little excessive. I think the most recent class 37 sales were the DRS ones last year which were bought by HNRC and LSL. That was only really because DRS had the tender lists published to sell them. HNRC quickly reactivated 37405 and painted it and 37607 orange and black. LSL bought 37059 and 37409 from the tender lists and I think Harry had all the others apart from 37606 which I believe us owned by the same chap as 37418.

BIB - there’s potentially more sales to come.

OT, but good to know that it might have been Steve Beniston (Tractor Factor) who bought 606. Thanks.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Very much agree. There are still the last tranche of DRS tat to flog presumably after RHTT 2023 IIRC that is the last seven DRS 37s

 

[D6968]

Haven’t DRS put a stop on their last lot of tractors for sale?

 

[D365]

Very much agree. There are still the last tranche of DRS tat to flog presumably after RHTT 2023 IIRC that is the last seven DRS 37s

DRS are planning to hold onto them for a few more years, but eventually yes, they will go too.