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Fantasy: High-G "Rollercoaster" train for commuting

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Egg Centric

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I believe I'm right in saying that the majority of cost of a new build railway is on finding an alignment.

Much of the problem finding that alignment, I expect, is because it has to be sensible. If you don't mind tubular track which 'holds on' to the vehicle and subjecting your passengers to 4G briefly then you suddenly have a lot of flexibility.

You also have an unconventional 'ride' to sell tickets for outside of peak hours.

So has anyone looked into the economics of such a "rollercoaster train", where the passengers are strapped in for a roughly twenty minute commute?

This seems such an obvious idea that there's no doubt a reason it doesn't work, but what is that reason other than its outlandishness?
 
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Egg Centric

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How would this help find an alignment?

Because in the countryside you can take on extreme gradients, avoid areas of local concern, etc.

In a town/city it's even more helpful - you can basically follow the streets with an elevated track rather than having to bulldoze half of Camden.

Basically, instead of having to find a straight, smooth, sensible route connecting two points, you just have to be able to find any route - the cheapest one.

I recognise this is unusual and not suited for long distance travel, but I think something like Cambridge - London (but not as well served) in 20 minutes it's ideal.
 

skyhigh

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I recognise this is unusual and not suited for long distance travel, but I think something like Cambridge - London (but not as well served) in 20 minutes it's ideal.
Straight line distance from Cambridge to King's Cross is just shy of 50 miles. To do that in 20 mins, you're looking at an average speed of 150mph.......
 

quantinghome

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Because in the countryside you can take on extreme gradients, avoid areas of local concern, etc.
The gradients a rail-guided vehicle can manage are down to its speed. High speed lines can already be designed for much higher gradients than conventional rail. The G-forces would kick in at the vertical transitions between different gradients but this is really a second-order issue.

In a town/city it's even more helpful - you can basically follow the streets with an elevated track rather than having to bulldoze half of Camden.
How is an elevated railway above narrow streets more helpful? Bear in mind the considerable additional structure needed to withstand the high lateral forces you envisage.

Also how will a mass transit vehicle have sufficient articulation to manage tight corners?

Basically, instead of having to find a straight, smooth, sensible route connecting two points, you just have to be able to find any route - the cheapest one.
But any route through a built up area is going to be expensive no matter what route you choose.

Besides, the whole thing is unworkable as commuters are not going to put up with G-forces only usually experienced by fighter pilots.
 

Irascible

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Have you ever actually experienced 4G for more than a transitory? :p

Well, I always thought the DLR could do with a speedup, specially that run down to Bank...
 

HSTEd

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If you are willing to pull several g, you don't need a 20 minute commute!

Even at 0.3g, in ten minutes you would be moving at ~1760m/s, or about 100km per minute.

Indeed when I did my calculations for that "GB Metro" maglev thing I bring up occasionally, I had to cut the acceleration of the maglev to that of the tube to make standing more practical.
 

Egg Centric

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Straight line distance from Cambridge to King's Cross is just shy of 50 miles. To do that in 20 mins, you're looking at an average speed of 150mph.......

No problem for my super train! You could even build it more or less along the existing alignment. The interesting bits would be around welwyn - I don't know if it's practical to interlock the slow lines with my super train as it makes a 30 second transition, but that would be my proposed solution (you could actually run it bidirectionally too to fit in with current timetable). Viaduct is no problem at all, just hang the coaster track off either side of the viaduct.

The gradients a rail-guided vehicle can manage are down to its speed. High speed lines can already be designed for much higher gradients than conventional rail. The G-forces would kick in at the vertical transitions between different gradients but this is really a second-order issue.


How is an elevated railway above narrow streets more helpful? Bear in mind the considerable additional structure needed to withstand the high lateral forces you envisage.

Also how will a mass transit vehicle have sufficient articulation to manage tight corners?


But any route through a built up area is going to be expensive no matter what route you choose.

Besides, the whole thing is unworkable as commuters are not going to put up with G-forces only usually experienced by fighter pilots.

Honestly, I haven't really thought in more than vague terms about what form the vehicle would take as I'd like to explore if this is even remotely possible in the first place (I'm not feeling optimistic so far but may as well run with it for a bit for fun) but as you point out it each coach will have to be considerably shorter than existing trains - and while articulated clearly there's no prospect of gangways etc - commuters will have to be strapped down. The elevated railway above narrow streets is useful because it doesn't incur much more cost than erecting very dense lamp posts - no need to buy property or demolish anything bigger than a letterbox.

Have you ever actually experienced 4G for more than a transitory? :p

Well, I always thought the DLR could do with a speedup, specially that run down to Bank...

I have done aerobatics when I was younger and fitter, that said even then 4G wouldn't have lasted long. But it wouldn't last long here either, only needed for the tightest turns. We can dial it down a bit if necessary and instead of flying around corners, use harsh accelleration and decelleration instead. 2G is perfectly ample in that case for the reason given in next quote.

If you are willing to pull several g, you don't need a 20 minute commute!

Even at 0.3g, in ten minutes you would be moving at ~1760m/s, or about 100km per minute.

Indeed when I did my calculations for that "GB Metro" maglev thing I bring up occasionally, I had to cut the acceleration of the maglev to that of the tube to make standing more practical.

Glad to see there's other great minds around!
 

BayPaul

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Yes! Just Yes!

For a further saving on track costs - run the down direction upside down on the same track as the up direction.
 
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