Fife Circular service in the 1970s and 1980s

[overthewater]

I wish to ask if anyone give more or better details about the history of the Fife Circular services over the years?

I did look on wiki but it's just the basics, but I was shocked to read how bad the cuts were in the 70s and 80s. I have no idea who the circular service ended up coming back, public pressure? BR chancing its luck since other lines had been popular.

Im also surprised there closed down Markinch station, while Ladybank only reopen when Cowdenbeath - kinross line was closed to make away for the m90.

Wiki claims Stirling and Dunfermline Railway closed in 1979, yet Coal trains were still using that line in the 80s.. Also how could the upper station be closed if freight traffic was still being used? also when did this bit if line all the way out to Queen margaret station get ripped up.

 

[Scotrail84]

I wish to ask if anyone give more or better details about the history of the Fife Circular services over the years?

I did look on wiki but it's just the basics, but I was shocked to read how bad the cuts were in the 70s and 80s. I have no idea who the circular service ended up coming back, public pressure? BR chancing its luck since other lines had been popular.

Im also surprised there closed down Markinch station, while Ladybank only reopen when Cowdenbeath - kinross line was closed to make away for the m90.

Wiki claims Stirling and Dunfermline Railway closed in 1979, yet Coal trains were still using that line in the 80s.. Also how could the upper station be closed if freight traffic was still being used? also when did this bit if line all the way out to Queen margaret station get ripped up.

Markinch is not closed, its very much open. Cowdenbeath-Perth was shut due without good reason then all of a sudden the M90 appears on the trackbed.

The S and K closed between Stirling and Longannet PS did it not?

The line out to where Dunfermline Queen Margaret station is just now was lifted at least 25-30 years ago, I vaguely remember track there as a kid

 

[edwin_m]

I was a regular from Kirkcaldy to Edinburgh between 1978 and 1981. At the time there were no circular services although we were diverted that way once or twice. There were trains starting from Dundee and Kirkcaldy into Edinburgh worked by 101 units, and similar on the Dunfermline route although not using that I don't have details of the service pattern. The M90 had been built by then and there were no services on Dunfermline-Alloa.

There was an Aberdeen train through Kirkcaldy every couple of hours, often a class 40 on early Mk2s, plus a few HSTs and a sleeper to and from London. The stations between Edinburgh and Dundee were Haymarket, Dalmeny, North Queensferry, Inverkeithing, Aberdour, Burntisland, Kinghorn, Kirkcaldy, Markinch, Ladybank, Springfield, Cuper and Leuchars.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Very simply, IIRC, there was never a regular 'circular' service in the more distant past. (I am aware of special services for things like Burntisland Highland Games but there was nothing on a regular pattern during the week.)

After the opening of the Forth Road Bridge local services were very much based on shuttles between Edinburgh and Kirkcaldy, and Edinburgh and Cowdenbeath. Services beyond Cowdenbeath through Lochgelly and Cardenden were quite limited. The area suffered quite badly from decline of traditional industries such as coal and fishing.

When the British Rail Provincial/Regional Railways sprinter (Class 150) era came along it was realised that one of the new units, with faster acceleration, could make it round the Fife Circle (Edinburgh-Cowdenbeath-Thornton South Curve-Kirkcaldy-Edinburgh and v.v.) in less than two hours. This promised good rolling stock and staff productivity and opened up the prospect of developing local rail traffic between Dunfermline, Cowdenbeath and Kirkcaldy, etc. with direct trains.

Frankly the density and frequency of local bus services meant that the new journey opportunities never really took off.

Subsequently Glenrothes with Thornton station was built to take advantage of virtually empty trains that were passing anyway.

Hope this helps.

 

[Scotrail84]

Circle services started around 89/90 when Cardenden - Thornton south was upgraded from freight only. Around the same time Dundees were taken over by 150s and 156s then in the years after that Markinch terminaters were introduced, which later became Dundees in about 2010.

 

[47271]

while Ladybank only reopen when Cowdenbeath - kinross line was closed to make away for the m90.

I think what you mean here is that passenger services were only reinstated between Ladybank and Perth when the old Glenfarg route was given up to the M90.

 

[dubscottie]

Circle services started around 89/90 when Cardenden - Thornton south was upgraded from freight only. Around the same time Dundees were taken over by 150s and 156s then in the years after that Markinch terminaters were introduced, which later became Dundees in about 2010.

It was only Thornton South curve that needed upgraded.

The Cardenden - Thornton North section was used at least twice a day by Edinburgh - Perth stoppers that ran via Dunfermline and Ladybank (and still is).

Also for a while in 1991/2 the service was truly circular on Sundays when engineering works closed Inverkeithing and the Forth Bridge.

Trains ran between Rosyth to Aberdour using the Inverkeithing North curve.

 

[Scotrail84]

It was only Thornton South curve that needed upgraded.

The Cardenden - Thornton North section was used at least twice a day by Edinburgh - Perth stoppers that ran via Dunfermline and Ladybank (and still is).

Also for a while in 1991/2 the service was truly circular on Sundays when engineering works closed Inverkeithing and the Forth Bridge.

Trains ran between Rosyth to Aberdour using the Inverkeithing North curve.

That happens still. Using dalgety bay as the start/terminate point I believe.

 

[overthewater]

Thanks for all your replys so far. never realised the circular is a pretty new things. So I take it most trains before 1970s on the Fife side where Edinburgh - Cowdenbeath - Perth?

I still wonder how could Dunfermline Upper station be closed if coal trains were still running through it from Comrie pit? https://www.flickr.com/photos/117983829@N03/15012804192/

Markinch is not closed, its very much open.

wiki seems to believe it was closed in the 60s and only reopen back in the late 80s.

It was only Thornton South curve that needed upgraded.

The Cardenden - Thornton North section was used at least twice a day by Edinburgh - Perth stoppers that ran via Dunfermline and Ladybank (and still is).

Are you saying during the 70s and 80s there was a perth train that went via Dunfermline?

 

[30907]

Going back pre Forth Road Bridge, Dunfermline had an almost half hourly service, but beyond that it was irregular on the various routes, barely 2 hourly off peak to Thornton or Alloa or Perth..

In 1973-4 it was hourly to Cowdenbeath off peak, with 3 off peak workings to Dundee and one peak working to Markinch, but a reasonable peak service as far as Cardenden.

By the late 70s IIRC this was down to a handful of peak hour trains to Cardenden and one or two going further, including to Perth via Ladybank (which had reopened, with a very limited service it must be said). I suspect this was for operational convenience rather than to tap the Dunfermline-Perth market!

 

[dubscottie]

Are you saying during the 70s and 80s there was a perth train that went via Dunfermline?

There was at least 2 per day. One Perth bound train passed Inverkeithing about 14:30 and the other just after 18:00 if remember right.

They were run to avoid BR having to apply for closure of Thornton North curve and the Ladybank - Hilton Junction section to passenger trains.

It was not until 1989 that the Ladybank - Hilton Junction section started to get used more intensively.

The 21:53 from Edinburgh still serves to same purpose today.

Not sure about trains in the other direction.

Dunfermline Upper was closed to passengers, not to freight.

 

[Scotrail84]

There was at least 2 per day. One Perth bound train passed Inverkeithing about 14:30 and the other just after 18:00 if remember right.

They were run to avoid BR having to apply for closure of Thornton North curve and the Ladybank - Hilton Junction section to passenger trains.

It was not until 1989 that the Ladybank - Hilton Junction section started to get used more intensively.

The 21:53 from Edinburgh still serves to same purpose today.

Not sure about trains in the other direction.

Dunfermline Upper was closed to passengers, not to freight.

There are a few in the morning peak and the 22:43 Perth - Edinburgh Mon-Sat service also runs this way.

There is at least one Northbound service on a Sunday too. See here http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G82473/2017/07/02/advanced

A X/C service to Dundee also uses this route for driver/guard route retention of the Fife circle. Returns from Dundee the same way as ECS move to Edinburgh via the sub as well

 

[30907]

They were run to avoid BR having to apply for closure of Thornton North curve and the Ladybank - Hilton Junction section to passenger trains

Ladybank to Bridge of Earn closed to passengers in 1955 and reopened 1975 according to Wikipedia - I agree the service was initially rather token, as other Edinburgh-Perth trains still went via Stirling

 

[dubscottie]

Ladybank to Bridge of Earn closed in 1955 and reopened 1975 according to Wikipedia - I agree the service was initially rather token, as other Edinburgh-Perth trains still went via Stirling

I think whoever wrote that is getting confused with the Ladybank line that linked up with the Glenfarg line (via Auchtermuchty) and the line that ran east towards the Tay Bridge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newburgh_railway_station

http://www.RailMapOnline.com/UKIEMap.php?lat=56.31934&lng=-3.07114&zoom=12

A bit research (found the Modern Railways mag) shows that it was with the start of the summer 1990 timetable that trains on the Ladybank - Hilton Jnt section went from 2 per day to 11 per day each way.

The main reason was that ScotRail was struggling on the Edinburgh - Inverness traffic with the upgrading of the A9 and by routing trains via Fife, they could shave 12 mins off the time with 47+Mk2 stock and even more with sprinters.

 

[Scotrail84]

I think whoever wrote that is getting confused with the Ladybank line that linked up with the Glenfarg line (via Auchtermuchty) and the line that ran east towards the Tay Bridge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newburgh_railway_station

http://www.RailMapOnline.com/UKIEMap.php?lat=56.31934&lng=-3.07114&zoom=12

A bit research (found the Modern Railways mag) shows that it was with the start of the summer 1990 timetable that trains on the Ladybank - Hilton Jnt section went from 2 per day to 11 per day each way.

The main reason was that ScotRail was struggling on the Edinburgh - Inverness traffic with the upgrading of the A9 and by routing trains via Fife, they could shave 12 mins off the time with 47+Mk2 stock and even more with sprinters.

These services should still be loco hauled to this day.

 

[30907]

I think whoever wrote that is getting confused with the Ladybank line that linked up with the Glenfarg line (via Auchtermuchty) and the line that ran east towards the Tay Bridge.

Thanks for the map! The link re Newburgh station confirms 1955 for closure to passengers. I've edited my post to clarify - the line obviously remained open for freight throughout.

Thanks for finding the date of the upgraded service.

 

[dubscottie]

These services should still be loco hauled to this day.

I agree and they could have been if it had not been for a certain leasing company wanting mega bucks to lease 30 year old Vac braked Mk2s to ScotRail back in 1994.

I am surprised that the are not using the Fife Circle sets to Inverness mid day and at weekends.

 

[Far north 37]

maybe at weekends id imagine but it would be cutting it fine taking a set to inverness after finishing the morning peak and working it back to edinburgh for the evening peak theres very little margin for error there if even possible.

 

[overthewater]

Thanks for the further details, Do you think anyone on here could improve those wiki pages? Thus all the incorrect details are taken out?

 

[Bevan Price]

I think that one reason for the circular service was to serve Glenrothes new town. Before the new town was built, the local population was about 1000 - it is now about 50,000. Historically, it did not have a station; the nearest station was possibly Thornton Junction (closed by Marples-Beeching)

 

[edwin_m]

I think that one reason for the circular service was to serve Glenrothes new town. Before the new town was built, the local population was about 1000 - it is now about 50,000. Historically, it did not have a station; the nearest station was possibly Thornton Junction (closed by Marles-Beeching)

Markinch was advertised as "for Glenrothes" in the years around 1980.

 

[overthewater]

I've found this video from the 80s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK19Iw4hv9E&ab_channel=jbg06003

 

[overthewater]

So the Tunnel which goes from Glenfarg to BoE, whats its current state? Is it useable?

 

[dubscottie]

So the Tunnel which goes from Glenfarg to BoE, whats its current state? Is it useable?

Plenty of people have been in it and posted pictures up. Seems in good condition.

The problem is that a good chunk of the line is now the M90 and there is no way it could ever be reopened.

 

[Liam]

So the Tunnel which goes from Glenfarg to BoE, whats its current state? Is it useable?

There are two tunnels, and they are both still accessible. The southern tunnel starts immediately North of the viaduct near the Bein Inn. Just scramble up the embankment, or there is access through a gate half a mile or so back along the road towards Glenfarg village.

 

[GusB]

So the Tunnel which goes from Glenfarg to BoE, whats its current state? Is it useable?

BoE? Please explain.

 

[edwin_m]

BoE? Please explain.

Bank of England - a particularly audacious robbery attempt involving tunnelling all the way from Scotland.

But more likely, though less exciting, to be Bridge of Earn.

 

[47271]

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=108662

The subject of the restoration of the Glenfarg route has been done to death in the thread above, especially recently around #700 or so.

 

[jadmor]

I have never really understood why the market for travel between Edinburgh and Perth was so poor that direct services were effectively abandoned after 1970 until quite recently. The few services that did run were purely for operating convenience, and even with the old freight line being reinstated, services from Inverness were much slower than they needed to be. I appreciate that the opening of the road bridge in 1964 had an impact, but the philosophy in Scottish law region after Beeching looked to be "close everything ".

 

[Taunton]

In the 1970s it was just expected that you would travel round by Stirling. It was not a huge amount of extra time, and a lot of mileage through open country could be closed for this. Through services from Edinburgh to Inverness went this way. This they had always done because it was an old LMS route, from Edinburgh Princes Street, running powers over the LNER to Falkirk, thence by LMS up the old Caley to Stirling and Perth, and the old Highland onward to Inverness. The LNER route direct across Fife was really regarded as a branch line, and their trains as interlopers in Perth! Old traditions die hard.

Sending (the few) Carlisle to Stranraer services round by Ayr was another Scottish example.

There was no express bus competition; there was a regular (hourly?) bus, but like other long distance bus routes in Scotland it was an all-stops affair along the old main road, taking even longer than the train.