First E&G 170s since electrification?

[hexagon789]

Today it appears that 1R45 the 1445 Edinburgh to Glasgow Queen Street, and return, are formed of a pair of 170s rather than 385s:

Realtime Trains | 1R75 1445 Edinburgh to Glasgow Queen Street | 16/10/2024

Real-time train running information for 1R75 1445 departure from Edinburgh to Glasgow Queen Street on 16/10/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Is this the first diesel substitution since the full 385 fleet became available and the 365s were withdrawn and 380s sent back to their other routes?

 

[Dalmeny Jct]

It might well be.... I suppose even more Fife services will be short formed for the rest of the day now. It's bad enough as it is!

 

[ScotRail158725]

I believe theres been a handful since 2020 but its usually been a late night swap running one way only

 

[hexagon789]

It might well be.... I suppose even more Fife services will be short formed for the rest of the day now. It's bad enough as it is!

Looks like one Tweedbank diagram cancelled and a Perth diagram cut from 5-car to 2-car to free up the two 170s.

I believe theres been a handful since 2020 but its usually been a late night swap running one way only

I couldn't remember any since the E&G was essentially one 170, one 380 and two 365 formations per hour, eventually becoming all electric but still a mix of classes before finally becoming all 385, albeit 7-car formations rather than 8.

 

[507020]

Looks like one Tweedbank diagram cancelled and a Perth diagram cut from 5-car to 2-car to free up the two 170s.

I couldn't remember any since the E&G was essentially one 170, one 380 and two 365 formations per hour, eventually becoming all electric but still a mix of classes before finally becoming all 385, albeit 7-car formations rather than 8.

Looking at RTT, could the 170 really be staying on the E&G diagram all day? How are they that short of 385s that they can’t spare one at all, even if they split one of the 8 cars and reduced some things around Glasgow from 6 to 4 car? That would be better than cancelling a whole diagram which needs DMUs.

 

[Peter0124]

It appears to be losing time, is that because the 170s are slower than 385s?

 

[Whistler40145]

Are 385s the only EMUs cleared on the E & G?

 

[hexagon789]

Are 385s the only EMUs cleared on the E & G?

380s are also cleared and are equally permitted to use the MU differentials (such as the 80/MU 90 near Winchburgh) on the line.

It appears to be losing time, is that because the 170s are slower than 385s?

Takes a 170 almost 4 times as long to reach 60mph let alone 100mph.

 

[Whistler40145]

380s are also cleared and are equally permitted to use the MU differentials (such as the 80/MU 90 near Winchburgh) on the line.


Takes a 170 almost 4 times as long to reach 60mph let alone 100mph.

Quite understandable trying to keep up with the timings

 

[DanNCL]

Are 385s the only EMUs cleared on the E & G?

380s are cleared but not all crews sign them.
334s can’t work the E&G as there’s no crew that signs both route and traction.
318s and 320s would have both crew and platform dispatch issues.

385s, 158s and 170s are/should be signed by all E-G crews. 156s, 380s and HSTs are signed by some but not all E-G crews.

 

[Whistler40145]

380s are cleared but not all crews sign them.
334s can’t work the E&G as there’s no crew that signs both route and traction.
318s and 320s would have both crew and platform dispatch issues.

385s, 158s and 170s are/should be signed by all E-G crews. 156s, 380s and HSTs are signed by some but not all E-G crews.

Cheers

 

[ScotRail158725]

Looking at RTT, could the 170 really be staying on the E&G diagram all day? How are they that short of 385s that they can’t spare one at all, even if they split one of the 8 cars and reduced some things around Glasgow from 6 to 4 car? That would be better than cancelling a whole diagram which needs DMUs.

The shuffling around of 385s could be a lot harder said than done

It appears to be losing time, is that because the 170s are slower than 385s?

Only a few minutes. 170s used to run the E&G on these same paths with the tight turnarounds so its more than capable of being able to run to time for the most part

 

[scotraildriver]

2 4-car 385s have been involved in fatalities recently and badly damaged. Another 3 car hit something and is at Craigentinny awaiting repairs and another had it's VCB explode.

 

[Crossover]

Looking at RTT, could the 170 really be staying on the E&G diagram all day? How are they that short of 385s that they can’t spare one at all, even if they split one of the 8 cars and reduced some things around Glasgow from 6 to 4 car? That would be better than cancelling a whole diagram which needs DMUs.

It looks like it is booked off after the 18:45 E to G on an ECS https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P84514/2024-10-16/detailed#allox_id=0

Whether this comes to being though, I'm not sure

Only a few minutes. 170s used to run the E&G on these same paths with the tight turnarounds so its more than capable of being able to run to time for the most part

I had forgotten how tight the turnarounds were on those services...at both ends of the route!

 

[ScotRail158725]

It looks like it is booked off after the 18:45 E to G on an ECS https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P84514/2024-10-16/detailed#allox_id=0

Whether this comes to being though, I'm not sure


I had forgotten how tight the turnarounds were on those services...at both ends of the route!

Its a 52 ish minute journey with 4 units off peak 8 on peak so roughly 7 or 8 mins turnaround either end, its performance seems to be catching up with it now after 4 hours out which isnt too bad

 

[Taunton]

Sounds very much like like in the 1970s a Met-Cam dmu substitution for the 2 x Class 27 push-pull .

 

[Whistler40145]

Are these services DOO or Driver and Guard?

 

[hexagon789]

Are these services DOO or Driver and Guard?

Driver and Guard

 

[Whistler40145]

Driver and Guard

Much appreciated

 

[hexagon789]

Sounds very much like like in the 1970s a Met-Cam dmu substitution for the 2 x Class 27 push-pull .

At least the maximum speeds are the same, unlike the 20mph lower official maximum (and sometimes a struggle to achieve) of the Met-Camms at just 70mph vs a 27 P-P set at 90mph and those were quite capable of 95 and more.

 

[185143]

I was onboard the 17:45 from Queen Street.

Noticeably long dwell times due to the guard having full responsibility for dispatch. Seemed to perform quite well against 385 timings.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I was onboard the 17:45 from Queen Street.

Noticeably long dwell times due to the guard having full responsibility for dispatch. Seemed to perform quite well against 385 timings.

Yeah the guard on the 1845 apologised for the dwell times for that reason, that on-top of the emergency break after Haymarket

 

[185143]

Yeah the guard on the 1845 apologised for the dwell times for that reason, that on-top of the emergency break after Haymarket

Wasn't you I was talking to in the front coach on a tip up seat on the 17:45 was it?

 

[ScotRail158725]

Wasn't you I was talking to in the front coach on a tip up seat on the 17:45 was it?

No