Forged railcard - Am I likely to be able to settle out of court? RESOLVED

[Kitana21]

I have been caught using a railcard that had a photo of myself screenshotted over but a different name to me. I was travelling on cross country trains. When asked to show the railcard, the ticket inspector asked to see it in the Trainline app which I could not as it is not mine. I panicked and lied and told her I could not add it to my Trainline app (I know stupid). She tried to scan the barcode and I don’t think it worked and she probably suspected it was fake. She took my details, a photo of my ID and the forged railcard. There is clear fraudulent intention here and I am very much aware of the severity of the consequences. I am very worried and anxious as I do not want this to go to court. What I did was stupid and I should not have been travelling with a fake railcard. Is there anyway this could be settled through a fine or given the details is it clear cut that this is something the train company will be taking further? Is there any hope for this situation?

 

[Bluejays]

There's definitely hope, so don't get too despondent. Think you have realised yourself how potentially serious it could be. But I think it would be fair to say that train companies are often more interested in extracting money than in laying weighty charges on people. Of course , that does mean that the outcome that avoids court can be very expensive. Don't beat yourself up too much and good luck.

 

[Haywain]

I have been caught using a railcard that had a photo of myself screenshotted over but a different name to me. I was travelling on cross country trains. When asked to show the railcard, the ticket inspector asked to see it in the Trainline app which I could not as it is not mine. I panicked and lied and told her I could not add it to my Trainline app (I know stupid). She tried to scan the barcode and I don’t think it worked and she probably suspected it was fake. She took my details, a photo of my ID and the forged railcard. There is clear fraudulent intention here and I am very much aware of the severity of the consequences. I am very worried and anxious as I do not want this to go to court. What I did was stupid and I should not have been travelling with a fake railcard. Is there anyway this could be settled through a fine or given the details is it clear cut that this is something the train company will be taking further? Is there any hope for this situation?

At the moment, all you can do is wait for the train company to write to you. In spite of your deliberate intent, you will probably be able to achieve a settlement without it going to court. If this happens the train company will ask for an amount of money to cover the train fares you have not correctly paid and an amount of generally around £100 to cover their administration costs. They will, not unreasonably, assume that this is not the first time you have done this and, if you buy your tickets online, will look into our purchase history to assess how much you have avoided paying. They will not take into account what you have paid as these will not have been valid tickets. And, as someone has to mention it, this will not be a fine in the legal sense - that is what you will be paying if the matter does end up in court (as you do not appear to have a valid defence).

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I think it would be fair to say that train companies are often more interested in extracting money than in laying weighty charges on people.

This is probably not fair on the railway. From where I sit, it's more relevant that the railway want to make sure that the fare dodger doesn't do it again and so cause long-term loss of income to the railway. Settling out of court for the proper fare plus an 'admin fee' of one or two hundred pounds is often enough to make sure that there won't be any repetition.

How does this impact the OP? Well, it means that when they get in touch with the railway (which in turn will be once the railway has written to them to ask for their side of the story) it's important to make it clear that they have learnt their lesson and will not be fare-dodging again. A good way to show this will be to buy a (real) railcard so that they can get cheap fares without cheating. If the railway aren't convinced, they may think that court action is the way to persuade the traveller to change their ways - and going to court will almost certainly be more expensive for the OP, so it's well worth trying to settle out of court.

 

[Kitana21]

This is probably not fair on the railway. From where I sit, it's more relevant that the railway want to make sure that the fare dodger doesn't do it again and so cause long-term loss of income to the railway. Settling out of court for the proper fare plus an 'admin fee' of one or two hundred pounds is often enough to make sure that there won't be any repetition.

How does this impact the OP? Well, it means that when they get in touch with the railway (which in turn will be once the railway has written to them to ask for their side of the story) it's important to make it clear that they have learnt their lesson and will not be fare-dodging again. A good way to show this will be to buy a (real) railcard so that they can get cheap fares without cheating. If the railway aren't convinced, they may think that court action is the way to persuade the traveller to change their ways - and going to court will almost certainly be more expensive for the OP, so it's well worth trying to settle out of court.

Thank you for your honest response. When I do receive a letter, do you have any advice on what I should write for my response? I want to admit that I lied, I think they will figure that out anyway. I have seen similar cases or the same to mine in other threads and they managed to obtain out of court settlements. Will mentioning that I have purchased a valid railcard help in terms of showing I will not do this again?

 

[AlterEgo]

Are CrossCountry still using Transport Investigations Limited, do we know?

 

[SuspectUsual]

Are CrossCountry still using Transport Investigations Limited, do we know?

I believe so, but not sure. If so the OP will doubtless have to go through their charade process of writing more than once to have any chance of an out of court settlement

 

[Kitana21]

Anyone know roughly how long it takes to receive a letter? I will update in here once I receive it.

 

[Haywain]

Anyone know roughly how long it takes to receive a letter? I will update in here once I receive it.

It's difficult to predict, but I would expect it to be between 2 and 4 weeks.

 

[WesternLancer]

Anyone know roughly how long it takes to receive a letter? I will update in here once I receive it.

In terms of what you will need to say to them in your written response it is easier for ppl to advice on that when you have the letter and see what you are being accused of.

As mentioned up thread buy a new Railcard now, even if you have no intention of setting foot on a train any time soon (assuming you are entitled to one). This shows you took action to 'do the right thing' albeit belatedly.

To prepare yourself I would start listing out for your own records (but not post here of course) every ticket you might have bought with a Railcard discount for the period when you did not have a legitimate, valid Railcard. This will be the info they will be getting from wherever you buy tickets form and will put to you as travel with fares evaded - unless of course you buy your tickets in cash at a ticket machine. You need to price up the journeys at the Anytime Single (the most expensive) fare as this will be the sort of fare they will argue you evaded, even if you travelled off peak.

If you can secure a settlement offer from them (ie not court action) then you will need to be in a position to pay the sum they request in full and immediately. So you may need to take steps to have that money available.

But your initial effort needs to be focussed on getting the railway to offer you and out of court settlement (they have no obligation to do this), in the reply you will need to write to them (see other threads for examples)

I assume you gave them a correct postal address where they can write to you over the coming weeks/months and that you will be able to get your post from that address during the time (ie not heading off for a 2 week holiday) - since you will have a very short time in which to reply once they write to you - 14 days from date letter sent IIRC.

Head back here for more advice as and when you need it as there will be people to help you get the best outcome you can (ar perhaps the 'least worst' outcome....)

 

[Bluejays]

This is probably not fair on the railway. From where I sit, it's more relevant that the railway want to make sure that the fare dodger doesn't do it again and so cause long-term loss of income to the railway. Settling out of court for the proper fare plus an 'admin fee' of one or two hundred pounds is often enough to make sure that there won't be any repetition.

How does this impact the OP? Well, it means that when they get in touch with the railway (which in turn will be once the railway has written to them to ask for their side of the story) it's important to make it clear that they have learnt their lesson and will not be fare-dodging again. A good way to show this will be to buy a (real) railcard so that they can get cheap fares without cheating. If the railway aren't convinced, they may think that court action is the way to persuade the traveller to change their ways - and going to court will almost certainly be more expensive for the OP, so it's well worth trying to settle out of court.

Sorry but that's absolute rubbish about 'being unfair to the railway'. I was in no way having a go or being unfair to 'the railway'. Merely pointing out that train companies tend to be more interested in settling than laying weighty charges on people

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Sorry but that's absolute rubbish about 'being unfair to the railway'. I was in no way having a go or being unfair to 'the railway'. Merely pointing out that train companies tend to be more interested in settling than laying weighty charges on people

I'm not convinced this will be helpful to the OP. If you care to start a separate thread, I may respond there.

 

[Cortado]

Doesn't this cross the invisible line from a simple ticket dodge to fraud - and if treated as such the chances of settling out of court approach zero?

 

[Kitana21]

Doesn't this cross the invisible line from a simple ticket dodge to fraud - and if treated as such the chances of settling out of court approach zero?

I have seen in other threads a similar situation to mine where they forged a railcard by altering the picture. The OP got an out of court settlement which is what I am hoping for. All I can do is wait for the letter which I’ve been feeling anxious about.

 

[spag23]

You need to price up the journeys at the Anytime Single (the most expensive) fare as this will be the sort of fare they will argue you evaded, even if you travelled off peak.

And the OP must bear in mind that they won't deduct the price of the discounted ticket(s) actually purchased.

 

[30907]

Doesn't this cross the invisible line from a simple ticket dodge to fraud - and if treated as such the chances of settling out of court approach zero?

It is more clearly intentional than some and therefore could lead to a Regulation of Railways Act prosecution. But depending on what the operator discovers, and how the OP responds, they may decide that there is no need to prosecute - it would be a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Fawkes Cat in #4 has made a similar point well.

 

[furlong]

Doesn't this cross the invisible line from a simple ticket dodge to fraud - and if treated as such the chances of settling out of court approach zero?

No.

 

[Krokodil]

It is more clearly intentional than some and therefore could lead to a Regulation of Railways Act prosecution. But depending on what the operator discovers, and how the OP responds, they may decide that there is no need to prosecute - it would be a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Fawkes Cat in #4 has made a similar point well.

Or a Fraud Act prosecution

 

[Hadders]

My view is a Fraud Act prosecution is highly unlikely.

Further discussion on which offences should attract a prosecution under the Fraud Act should be in a new thread as it's likely do take this thread too far off topic.

 

[SWT_USER]

My view is a Fraud Act prosecution is highly unlikely.

Further discussion on which offences should attract a prosecution under the Fraud Act should be in a new thread as it's likely do take this thread too far off topic.

I agree.

Again probably not for this thread but given how easy it is to obtain a genuine Railcard you're not entitled to I'm surprised we don't see any cases on the forum. I guess it is difficult to detect.

 

[Kitana21]

I received a letter from cross country and they offered an out of court settlement of £185.

 

[island]

That's good news. Thanks for coming back and letting us know. It should go without saying that you are now "on the radar" as it were and you absolutely must stay on the straight and narrow going forward as any further violations are very likely to mean a trip to court.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Just to note that this is the first communication from Cross Country, and it offers the chance to settle as an alternative to writing in mitigation.

And as @island says, that's a good result. I know this is stating the obvious, but make sure that you pay it while the opportunity is still open.

 

[30907]

That is a decent offer from XC - I assume you will jump at it. Thanks for letting us know!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

So, £80 admin fees + £105 fare avoided, total due = £185. What would have been the journey in question?

Expensive miscalculation if you add in the cost of the (non-valid) discounted ticket that the OP presumably held, and all for the want of a legitimate £30 railcard.

 

[greatkingrat]

So, £80 admin fees + £105 fare avoided, total due = £185. What would have been the journey in question?

Expensive miscalculation if you add in the cost of the (non-valid) discounted ticket that the OP presumably held, and all for the want of a legitimate £30 railcard.

We don't know that the OP is legitimately eligible for any railcards though. Plus it is likely this wasn't the first time they had used the fake railcard.

 

[kkong]

I received a letter from cross country and they offered an out of court settlement of £185.

You may wish to edit the PDF, because your name and address are visible when you move the white rectangle which has been placed over these details.

 

[ysk]

Hi, just to know do you get the offered letter straight away from the prosecute team ?

I received a letter from cross country and they offered an out of court settlement of £185.

 

[Huntergreed]

Hi, just to know do you get the offered letter straight away from the prosecute team ?

Welcome to the forum!

To ensure each case can be handled as well and thoroughly as possible, we require all cases to have their own, individual thread.

Please create a thread outlining the details of your case and we will do our best to provide advice to help and advice to help you achieve a positive outcome.

 

[Gloster]

Hi, just to know do you get the offered letter straight away from the prosecute team ?

If you have a problem, please start your own thread. No two problems are exactly the same and good advice for one can be bad for another,