Freight train speed limits

[Deeps]

Is the max speed limit for a freight train still 75mph ?

I was on Winchester station when a Southbound container train went through at what seemed a VERY high speed.
A 66 was hauling it; we passed it a bit later in Eastleigh station, later it trundled though Southampton Central at about 20 mph.

 

[455driver]

Intermodals are 75, I am sure the drivers manager will be downloading the locos OTMR as we speak now that you have given them a location and loco number, I am sure the driver (if he was getting a move on) really appeciates you doing that! :roll:

 

[IanXC]

Quick reminder - when asking questions like this please do not include information which would identify an individual. If you are not sure about a post you intend to make, please PM me or another member of the team who will be more than happy to advise.

 

[rebmcr]

What happened to "safety first on the railways"? Last I heard it wasn't "safety first unless you decide your mate should get away with it".

 

[Darandio]

What happened to "safety first on the railways"? Last I heard it wasn't "safety first unless you decide your mate should get away with it".

But there is absolutely no proof anything was wrong here, only a perception of speed which in the majority of cases, is miles out.

 

[IanXC]

What happened to "safety first on the railways"? Last I heard it wasn't "safety first unless you decide your mate should get away with it".

Absolutely, but let's not be the source of rumour and conjecture which can have serious consequences for individuals. Should an incident need to be reported I am certain other posters will point that out.

 

[rebmcr]

If the OTMR turns up nothing, then what's the problem? I'm not having a go, just seems very off to me. Are managers unfair even about rumours?

 

[Crossover]

It could be a prompt to check anyway which may not have otherwise happened

Some freights do appear to go a fair whack sometimes, but it maybe exaggerated due to seeing them sometimes trundling along and/or being signal checked

 

[edwin_m]

In practice a small overspeed isn't a safety issue, as there are quite a few margins of safety built in when setting limits on particular trains or sections of line. It could however indicate that a driver is at risk of doing something more serious in future.

Passenger trains produce a lot less noise and draught than freights, so to someone standing on a platform a container train passing at 75mph could give the impression of being faster than a passenger train at 100mph.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Isn't the top speed of a 66 only 75mph?

 

[Deeps]

Quick reminder - when asking questions like this please do not include information which would identify an individual. If you are not sure about a post you intend to make, please PM me or another member of the team who will be more than happy to advise.

Absolutely, but let's not be the source of rumour and conjecture which can have serious consequences for individuals. Should an incident need to be reported I am certain other posters will point that out.

I'm sorry, but I really don't see why you feel that you should make the statements that you have. My OP was placed in good faith, I find this response to be extremely "disappointing", to say the least.

Is a member of the rail using public not allowed to make a comment that a train appeared to be going "VERY fast" ? My two Mk 1 eyeballs would certainly not be accepted by any constabulary as proof that any motorist was exceeding the speed limit, so why should this be considered the case when applied to a train ? As several of the follow up posts have quite correctly said, it is easy to misjudge speeds - this train certainly was incredibly noisy - and I don't have much experience of judging Class 66s hauling a heavy container train passing by (at 75 mph ?) a few feet in front of me.
I did NOT say anywhere in my post that I thought the driver was acting improperly - the response seems to suggest that he might have been.

If indeed, the train WAS exceeding its speed limit (do trains have data recorders ? I don't know - [Having just Googled OTMR it appears they may well have]) surely I should be praised for my actions - NOT be told to withhold evidence in case a rail employee was misbehaving and might get into trouble?

"Rumour and conjecture" do not come into it. If a rail employee was breaking the rules, "serious consequences" should follow.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I'm sorry, but I really don't see why you feel that you should make the statements that you have. My OP was placed in good faith, I find this response to be extremely "disappointing", to say the least.

Is a member of the rail using public not allowed to make a comment that a train appeared to be going "VERY fast" ? My two Mk 1 eyeballs would certainly not be accepted by any constabulary as proof that any motorist was exceeding the speed limit, so why should this be considered the case when applied to a train ? As several of the follow up posts have quite correctly said, it is easy to misjudge speeds - this train certainly was incredibly noisy - and I don't have much experience of judging Class 66s hauling a heavy container train passing by (at 75 mph ?) a few feet in front of me.
I did NOT say anywhere in my post that I thought the driver was acting improperly - the response seems to suggest that he might have been.

If indeed, the train WAS exceeding its speed limit (do trains have data recorders ? I don't know - [Having just Googled OTMR it appears they may well have]) surely I should be praised for my actions - NOT be told to withhold evidence in case a rail employee was misbehaving and might get into trouble?

"Rumour and conjecture" do not come into it. If a rail employee was breaking the rules, "serious consequences" should follow.

Its not necessarily what you say but what people do with it. And that includes enthusiasts etc on other forums.

 

[Silv1983]

I'm sorry, but I really don't see why you feel that you should make the statements that you have. My OP was placed in good faith, I find this response to be extremely "disappointing", to say the least.

Is a member of the rail using public not allowed to make a comment that a train appeared to be going "VERY fast" ? My two Mk 1 eyeballs would certainly not be accepted by any constabulary as proof that any motorist was exceeding the speed limit, so why should this be considered the case when applied to a train ? As several of the follow up posts have quite correctly said, it is easy to misjudge speeds - this train certainly was incredibly noisy - and I don't have much experience of judging Class 66s hauling a heavy container train passing by (at 75 mph ?) a few feet in front of me.
I did NOT say anywhere in my post that I thought the driver was acting improperly - the response seems to suggest that he might have been.

If indeed, the train WAS exceeding its speed limit (do trains have data recorders ? I don't know - [Having just Googled OTMR it appears they may well have]) surely I should be praised for my actions - NOT be told to withhold evidence in case a rail employee was misbehaving and might get into trouble?

"Rumour and conjecture" do not come into it. If a rail employee was breaking the rules, "serious consequences" should follow.

You have my support. My manager can download my OTDR all day every day because im paid well to main a safe system of work in a safety critical job. I'd much rather a driver I didn't know face disciplinary proceedings than have to wake up to news of another rail disaster due to human error.

 

[#1 driver]

Is the max speed limit for a freight train still 75mph ?

no -

Isn't the top speed of a 66 only 75mph?

yep !

 

[HSTEd]

For certain definition of "freight train" it has been 100mph for a long time. (Parcel, Newspaper and Postal trains).

 

[edwin_m]

But most definitions of freight train exclude these - for example they have always appeared in the passenger working timetable. Parcels and newspaper trains are of course extinct and postal trains very rare.

There were experiments with running intermodal freight at 90mph a few years back to provide trunk hauls for one of the parcels companies, but they seem to have come to nothing.

 

[bronzeonion]

I've heard Class 66's shut down once you're over 75mph

 

[87015]

For certain definition of "freight train" it has been 100mph for a long time. (Parcel, Newspaper and Postal trains).

If you are trying to be clever at least be correct, there are/were 110mph van trains... Never count as a freight in my book though.

 

[#1 driver]

I've heard Class 66's shut down once you're over 75mph

They loose power at 78ish and chuck the brake on at 80ish .
Individual locos vary , though .

The brake thing can be a right pain in the behind when you are going 70 and get wheel slip !

 

[KA4C]

If indeed, the train WAS exceeding its speed limit (do trains have data recorders ? I don't know - [Having just Googled OTMR it appears they may well have]) surely I should be praised for my actions - NOT be told to withhold evidence in case a rail employee was misbehaving and might get into trouble?

"Rumour and conjecture" do not come into it. If a rail employee was breaking the rules, "serious consequences" should follow.

If you are that concerned, then you should report it to railway authorities (Network Rail) at the time?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They loose power at 78ish and chuck the brake on at 80ish .
Individual locos vary , though .

The brake thing can be a right pain in the behind when you are going 70 and get wheel slip !

Yeah, penalty brake at 79 mph

 

[Beveridges]

The fastest freight train at the moment is the 325's on the Royal Mail between Scotland and Willesden at 100mph

 

[The Planner]

Sure those are planned as class 1 though.

 

[michael769]

The sheer size and weight of a heavy freight train can create the illusion of moing at high speed. When you feel the ground shake under your feet and get the blast of displaced air your brain gets a bit confused and decides it is "too fast!" even though it probably isn't.

Its the same effect you get as a pedestrian on a busy main road where the large trucks seem to go much faster than the cars when the opposite is true.

 

[edwin_m]

Sure those are planned as class 1 though.

Indeed they are.

 

[themiller]

No-one seems to have come up with the possibility that there may have been a malfunction on the loco control system. The driver may have thought that he was within the limit by reference to the speedometer. A check of the OTMR may reveal the truth. Why is everyone jumping to conclusions? If a defect is revealed by a check, it may prevent an accident in the future and the OP may just be called a "hero".

 

[Beveridges]

I believe a few 110mph Royal Mail trains used to exist in the historic days of Class 90's on mails. I can barely remember them. Christ, they really gave the impression of high speed when they used to thunder through a station at full speed.

 

[KA4C]

No-one seems to have come up with the possibility that there may have been a malfunction on the loco control system. The driver may have thought that he was within the limit by reference to the speedometer. A check of the OTMR may reveal the truth. Why is everyone jumping to conclusions? If a defect is revealed by a check, it may prevent an accident in the future and the OP may just be called a "hero".

By reporting it on here? yeah, right-o

 

[A-driver]

No-one seems to have come up with the possibility that there may have been a malfunction on the loco control system. The driver may have thought that he was within the limit by reference to the speedometer. A check of the OTMR may reveal the truth. Why is everyone jumping to conclusions? If a defect is revealed by a check, it may prevent an accident in the future and the OP may just be called a "hero".

Pretty sure the driver would know if the speedo was that far out! A few mph may go un noticed but I doubt very much it would be that far out without the driver realising that it seemed to be going above 75!

 

[carriageline]

This place is brilliant at times. I'm not sure many, if any drivers would risk their livelihood by speeding, it's not exactly like they are uncatchable. I'm also sure a driver notice a particular Journey being faster, or even notice the unit going faster than indicated speed.

 

[A-driver]

In all seriousness drivers don't speed and would know if they were. The last driver I know of who was aught speeding was seen doing 125 through a 50 tsr and was sacked. Don't know exactly why he was speeding but it was through a station and another companies driver manager saw him and reported it.

I very much doubt that the train the op refers to was speeding. Sorry to be defensive but I would be very very suprised if it was. Looking down at the speedo and noticing you are doing 5-10 above line speed because you have opened up and forgotten about it happens from time to time and a quick brake application sets you right. But speeding to the extent that people outside the train would notice is almost unheard of. As said above, why would anyone ever risk a 45k a year job just to get home early, especially as even if you speed you will just catch up the train in front and end up crawling about on yellows.

It's very difficult to judge a trains speed when stood on a platform and I think it just seemed fast for whatever reason.