Gatwick Airport - Cricklewood - Milton Keynes - Cricklewood

[miklcct]

My journey plan on 31 Oct is to take a direct train from Gatwick Airport back home after landing, probably by the 23:51 train the previous night (30 Oct). (if the first northbound train doesn't call at Cricklewood, I'm happy to touch out and in at East Croydon which will be after midnight)

Then I need to go to Milton Keynes for an interview scheduled at 13:00. As Avanti West Coast is running only one train per hour, I will consider buying LNR only tickets if I can save money, and I will even walk back home from Brondesbury in order to save a bus fare because London Buses are so expensive (I now don't consider making the connection at West Hampstead coming from the west and it barely saves any time from walking when taking the expected waiting time for a Thameslink train into account).

I have a 26-30 Railcard. The target to beat is:

1. Oyster Gatwick Airport - Cricklewood off-peak, £5.95 (zones 1-14), which counts into the cap of previous day (30 Oct) as it's before 04:29
2. Oyster Willesden Green - Euston Square off-peak, £1.70 (zones 1-2), which counts into the cap of 31 Oct
3. National Rail London Terminals - Milton Keynes Central LNR Super Off-Peak Return, £10.95 (no break of journey in the outward portion)
4. Oyster Willesden Junction - Brondesbury off-peak, £1.05 (zone 2) (hopefully I can complete the interview and return there before 16:00)

Total £19.65.

If I can catch an earlier train to East Croydon, I would do the ticket dance there into two segments, £2.30 from Gatwick Airport to East Croydon and £2.50 from East Croydon to Cricklewood, pushing the total down to £18.50.

Are there any other tickets which produce a cheaper total than the above £19.65 amount?

 

[JonathanH]

1. National Rail London Terminals - Milton Keynes Central LNR Super Off-Peak Return, £10.95 (no break of journey in the outward portion)
2. Oyster Willesden Junction - Brondesbury off-peak, £1.05 (zone 2) (hopefully I can complete the interview and return there before 16:00)

Oyster from Harrow & Wealdstone, Wembley Central or Euston surely?

 

[miklcct]

Oyster from Harrow & Wealdstone, Wembley Central or Euston surely?

Thanks for pointing out the mistake. I should touch in at Harrow & Wealdstone instead when changing to the Overground there as the ticket is restricted to LNR. The fare should be £1.25.

 

[miklcct]

I have further checked the timetable. As there isn't even a direct train from Milton Keynes to Harrow & Wealdstone, depending on the actual timetable, my return journey may be done by one of the following ways:

• Non-stop train to Euston and get home there using zones 1-2 on the tube (£1.70), as in the outward journey.
• Train to Watford Junction, if there is an LNR train coming soon, get to Harrow & Wealdstone and touch in there, and use the Kenton OSI to get back to Willesden Green (zones 3-5, £1.20)
• Or if there is a long wait to the next LNR train calling at Harrow & Wealdstone, touch in to take the Overground and get back to Willesden Green as described above (zones 3-10, £1.40)

 

[Doppelganger]

London Buses are so expensive

Compared to what? London buses are excellent value, when compared to pretty much any other city in the UK, and the hopper fare only increases the value.

Did you mean expensive for a short journey? That maybe so, but then I would argue it's a good thing as it stops the unnecessary clogging up of public transport and encourages people to be fitter.

 

[JonathanH]

Compared to what? London buses are excellent value, when compared to pretty much any other city in the UK, and the hopper fare only increases the value.

Railcard discounted off-peak journeys on Oyster on TfL scales outside Zone 1 I guess.

 

[miklcct]

Railcard discounted off-peak journeys on Oyster on TfL scales outside Zone 1 I guess.

Yes, and also bus fares in other European countries.

Did you mean expensive for a short journey?

Also yes, and now I usually avoid short journeys as a result and use TfL rail services instead, and if I really have to do them, I either do them on the days I have intention to cap my Oyster or cycle them if possible.

 

[30907]

Yes, and also bus fares in other European countries

...which tend to be similar, around the EUR2 level in "Western" cities unless there is a short hop fare.

 

[miklcct]

...which tend to be similar, around the EUR2 level in "Western" cities unless there is a short hop fare.

I am comparing to the Eastern cities instead as I have never travelled to Western Europe except the UK itself.

For example, the price in Vilnius is:
30 minutes: 0.65 EUR (£0.56)
60 minutes: 0.90 EUR (£0.78)
1 day: 5.00 EUR (£4.31)
1 month: 29 EUR (£24.99)

And, in Budapest:
Metro short hop (3 stops): 300 HUF (£0.63)
Single: 350 HUF (£0.74)
1 transfer: 530 HUF (£1.12)
30 minutes until last boarding (mobile only): 530 HUF (£1.12)
90 minutes until last boarding (mobile only): 750 HUF (£1.58)
24-hours travelcard: 2500 HUF (£5.26)
Monthly pass: 9500 HUF (£20)

There is no metro service in Vilnius but there is in Budapest, where all modes share the same fares, unlike in London where there are separate fares on the metro and on buses. It's only the day ticket which comes remotely close to London prices, where for single or even season tickets, those European cities are much cheaper compared to the cheapest single of £1.60 on the tube and £110.60 for a month 2-zone Travelcard.

I really hope that I can find a way to emigrate to the EU to further reduce my expenses. In London, when I no longer qualify for an appropriate railcard I will either need to either pay the rip off fare if I need to travel through zone 1 or pay for a Gold Card for the privilege.

 

[Watershed]

I am comparing to the Eastern cities instead as I have never travelled to Western Europe except the UK itself.

For example, the price in Vilnius is:
30 minutes: 0.65 EUR (£0.56)
60 minutes: 0.90 EUR (£0.78)
1 day: 5.00 EUR (£4.31)
1 month: 29 EUR (£24.99)

And, in Budapest:
Metro short hop (3 stops): 300 HUF (£0.63)
Single: 350 HUF (£0.74)
1 transfer: 530 HUF (£1.12)
30 minutes until last boarding (mobile only): 530 HUF (£1.12)
90 minutes until last boarding (mobile only): 750 HUF (£1.58)
24-hours travelcard: 2500 HUF (£5.26)
Monthly pass: 9500 HUF (£20)

There is no metro service in Vilnius but there is in Budapest, where all modes share the same fares, unlike in London where there are separate fares on the metro and on buses. It's only the day ticket which comes remotely close to London prices, where for single or even season tickets, those European cities are much cheaper compared to the cheapest single of £1.60 on the tube and £110.60 for a month 2-zone Travelcard.

I really hope that I can find a way to emigrate to the EU to further reduce my expenses. In London, when I no longer qualify for an appropriate railcard I will either need to either pay the rip off fare if I need to travel through zone 1 or pay for a Gold Card for the privilege.

I think you need to keep your expectations realistic. Whilst public transport is certainly far cheaper in eastern Europe, so are salaries. Germany, France, Italy and the like are relative outliers in that their public transport is (generally) cheaper than here, but salaries tend to be comparable.

All this being said, I think you are focusing far too narrowly on the issue of the cost of public transport. Differences in the cost of housing will have a far greater impact on your finances.

 

[Doppelganger]

I am comparing to the Eastern cities instead as I have never travelled to Western Europe except the UK itself.

For example, the price in Vilnius is:
30 minutes: 0.65 EUR (£0.56)
60 minutes: 0.90 EUR (£0.78)
1 day: 5.00 EUR (£4.31)
1 month: 29 EUR (£24.99)

And, in Budapest:
Metro short hop (3 stops): 300 HUF (£0.63)
Single: 350 HUF (£0.74)
1 transfer: 530 HUF (£1.12)
30 minutes until last boarding (mobile only): 530 HUF (£1.12)
90 minutes until last boarding (mobile only): 750 HUF (£1.58)
24-hours travelcard: 2500 HUF (£5.26)
Monthly pass: 9500 HUF (£20)

There is no metro service in Vilnius but there is in Budapest, where all modes share the same fares, unlike in London where there are separate fares on the metro and on buses. It's only the day ticket which comes remotely close to London prices, where for single or even season tickets, those European cities are much cheaper compared to the cheapest single of £1.60 on the tube and £110.60 for a month 2-zone Travelcard.

I really hope that I can find a way to emigrate to the EU to further reduce my expenses. In London, when I no longer qualify for an appropriate railcard I will either need to either pay the rip off fare if I need to travel through zone 1 or pay for a Gold Card for the privilege.

Why are you comparing London bus prices to those in places such as Budapest?

Wages are lower and so the average monthly take home pay in Budapest is about 300k HUF (about £600), compared to £2.1k after tax in London. In London you are paid nearly four times as much, yet a bus journey is less than double what it is in Budapest, so Budapest is in fact the more expensive place relative to wages.

 

[miklcct]

Differences in the cost of housing will have a far greater impact on your finances.

Capital cities in other EU countries also have lower housing cost compared to London, so it always represent a net gain if I can make my way to live in those EU countries. Furthermore, it's more likely that public transport actually works on Sunday in other EU countries compared to the UK.

As mentioned above, I am attending an interview in Milton Keynes (which is for a job desirable for my career growth, but it has a very low salary - an annual season from my current home Cricklewood will cost about 15% of the salary, while the rent will cost about 30% - I hope I can find something cheaper on the line between Willesden Junction and Harrow & Wealdstone if I have that job to get a cheaper commute while still keeping the benefit of living in London - life in the UK outside London is miserable). If I end up taking that job, I will have a hard time squeezing my expenses in order to make up my commute cost.

 

[MikeWh]

I am comparing to the Eastern cities instead as I have never travelled to Western Europe except the UK itself.

Do you consider Denmark and Sweden to be Eastern Europe?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Capital cities in other EU countries also have lower housing cost compared to London, so it always represent a net gain if I can make my way to live in those EU countries. Furthermore, it's more likely that public transport actually works on Sunday in other EU countries compared to the UK.

As mentioned above, I am attending an interview in Milton Keynes (which is for a job desirable for my career growth, but it has a very low salary - an annual season from my current home Cricklewood will cost about 15% of the salary, while the rent will cost about 30% - I hope I can find something cheaper on the line between Willesden Junction and Harrow & Wealdstone if I have that job to get a cheaper commute while still keeping the benefit of living in London - life in the UK outside London is miserable). If I end up taking that job, I will have a hard time squeezing my expenses in order to make up my commute cost.

Seriously, if you are going to live in MK, either get a car or cycle everywhere. The public transport is utterly terrible.

Otherwise there will be thread after thread about its uselessness

Other than that though it is a pleasant place to live and quite cheap for the South East. And 30 minutes into London on Avanti. I have long thought there would be little benefit in living in say Harrow or Watford as the journey in is not much quicker and is far more overcrowded. But you will need to change your mentality to enjoy very low density, slower places. It is the total opposite of an Asian megacity.

Great places to run and cycle though, as I believe is your thing.

 

[Watershed]

Watford Junction may be a reasonable compromise - cheaper than central London, but just 17-22 minutes to Euston with 4 non-overtaken trains per hour.

 

[Haywain]

Watford Junction may be a reasonable compromise - cheaper than central London, but just 17-22 minutes to Euston with 4 non-overtaken trains per hour.

Watford might be a bit too much 'out in the sticks' for the OP. It's incredible how so many of us cope with life outside London given that it's apparently so miserable.

 

[miklcct]

Watford Junction may be a reasonable compromise - cheaper than central London, but just 17-22 minutes to Euston with 4 non-overtaken trains per hour.

Thanks for your suggestion, I may take it into consideration given that it has effectively 2 rail lines (3 if I count the Met as well) and it's still in the TfL land with usable bus services.