Girvan - Barrhill - Stranraer: is it viable, and could it be made more so?

[backontrack]

Following from the discussion of the events unfolding at Ayr, I thought I'd start a thread discussing the viability of the line between Girvan and Stranraer.

I believe that the line is viable.

Stranraer isn't some small market town with a population of three or four thousand - its population is at the sharp end of ten thousand with a couple more thousands located in the surrounding area. It is a good access point for western Dumfries & Galloway, and is a town with its own castle (Castle of St John) and museum to boot, as well as being at the end of a scenic rail route. Despite Stranraer rail station being a mile away from the bus station, annual passenger usage is at 69,964 for 2017/18 - that's an increase of over 24,000 in four years (over this period of time, usage has been increasing consistently, helped by increased frequency of the previously fairly meagre train service). A re-sited, more central Stranraer station would, I believe, prove itself to be a worthwhile investment - and there's also been talk in recent years of a new station at either Dunragit or Glenluce, east of Stranraer. In short, I think there's a reasonable enough argument for keeping the line open.

 

[hexagon789]

Following from the discussion of the events unfolding at Ayr, I thought I'd start a thread discussing the viability of the line between Girvan and Stranraer.

I believe that the line is viable.

Stranraer isn't some small market town with a population of three or four thousand - its population is at the sharp end of ten thousand with a couple more thousands located in the surrounding area. It is a good access point for western Dumfries & Galloway, and is a town with its own castle (Castle of St John) and museum to boot, as well as being at the end of a scenic rail route. Despite Stranraer rail station being a mile away from the bus station, annual passenger usage is at 69,964 for 2017/18 - that's an increase of over 24,000 in four years (over this period of time, usage has been increasing consistently, helped by increased frequency of the previously fairly meagre train service). A re-sited, more central Stranraer station would, I believe, prove itself to be a worthwhile investment - and there's also been talk in recent years of a new station at either Dunragit or Glenluce, east of Stranraer. In short, I think there's a reasonable enough argument for keeping the station open.

I think it's quite viable, but I think far more can be done to promote the line to tourists, it's actually quite scenic in a rugged sort of way. Re-introduce trolleys, more through services to Glasgow, perhaps a regular interval service as far as Ayr or Kilmarnock?

I think Dunragit is more viable than Glenluce for re-opening.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

In fairness it probably is the line most at risk in the UK, but even then there is no danger of it going at all, the murmurings of a few years ago would have been a political death warrant for whoever enacted it. The revamped timetable, though through trains via Paisley and Kilwinning have gone, is certainly much better than the sporadic offering it used to enjoy.

It is a lovely little line, especially between Barrhill and Stranraer; more than holds its own against some of the much more lauded lines in the UK.

 

[backontrack]

I think it's quite viable, but I think far more can be done to promote the line to tourists, it's actually quite scenic in a rugged sort of way. Re-introduce trolleys, more through services to Glasgow, perhaps a regular interval service as far as Ayr or Kilmarnock?

I think Dunragit is more viable than Glenluce for re-opening.

I agree entirely with your first statements.

Glenluce vs Dunragit is a difficult one; Glenluce is bigger (and while, with Glenluce, the station would be further from the settlement it served, the station would also likely serve Glenluce Abbey - a genuine tourist attraction in its own right that is close to the most plausible site), while Dunragit would be close to a settlement with potential to expand as well as being a driveable distance from Glenluce. I do think Glenluce's size gives it an advantage.

 

[Starmill]

In fairness it probably is the line most at risk in the UK, but even then there is no danger of it going at all

This is a good summary. The Scottish Government would never allow it to be closed permanently, regardless of how poorly it were performing. It's perhaps tied for last place in Great Britain with the Conwy Valley line.

 

[cactustwirly]

Depends on what you call 'viable'
The usage of Stranraer is pretty poor, and I seriously doubt that this line would ever turn a profit.

 

[bramling]

Depends on what you call 'viable'
The usage of Stranraer is pretty poor, and I seriously doubt that this line would ever turn a profit.

The problem is it’s a hell of a lot of mileage, in difficult terrain just to serve Stranraer alone, with Barrhill being not much to right home about either. Having said that I tend to agree that closure would be politically unlikely, though were the money simply not to be there then it would be first on the list no doubt.

 

[hexagon789]

I agree entirely with your first statements.

Glenluce vs Dunragit is a difficult one; Glenluce is bigger (and while, with Glenluce, the station would be further from the settlement it served, the station would also likely serve Glenluce Abbey - a genuine tourist attraction in its own right that is close to the most plausible site), while Dunragit would be close to a settlement with potential to expand as well as being a driveable distance from Glenluce. I do think Glenluce's size gives it an advantage.

Perhaps, I simply seem to hear more about proposals for Dunragit getting a station than Glenluce.

I wonder if costs could be saved by employed RETB on the line, making it more viable perhaps?

 

[alangla]

I wondered how expensive or difficult it would be to transfer it to Cowlairs ROC. The East Suffolk went from RETB to conventional signals, wonder what that cost or would cost here

 

[hexagon789]

I wondered how expensive or difficult it would be to transfer it to Cowlairs ROC. The East Suffolk went from RETB to conventional signals, wonder what that cost or would cost here

Was that for capacity reasons?

 

[Starmill]

Was that for capacity reasons?

I believe it was because the RETB was no longer viable. The spectrum needed to be re-sold for the 4G rollout, allegedly.

 

[hexagon789]

I believe it was because the RETB was no longer viable. The spectrum needed to be re-sold for the 4G rollout, allegedly.

I'm not entirely sure what that means, but does that mean RETB is effectively obsolete then?

 

[Starmill]

I don't think so, because the Far North and West Highland lines still use it!

 

[hexagon789]

I don't think so, because the Far North and West Highland lines still use it!

I meant in the sense that it won't be introduced elsewhere

 

[InOban]

The WHL and the far North lines were re-equipped to use a different frequency.

 

[mmh]

Perhaps, I simply seem to hear more about proposals for Dunragit getting a station than Glenluce.

I wonder if costs could be saved by employed RETB on the line, making it more viable perhaps?

Sorry, what does RETB mean?

 

[hexagon789]

Sorry, what does RETB mean?

Radio Electronic Token Block

 

[hexagon789]

The WHL and the far North lines were re-equipped to use a different frequency.

I see, I think I've misunderstood somewhere. So new installations of RETB are still possible/allowed then?

 

[mmh]

Radio Electronic Token Block

So the inevitable next question is, what is Radio Electronic Token Block? An electronic alternative to physical single line tokens, or something else?

I'm not being awkward, I just don't know this terminology.

 

[ashworth]

A few years ago I was on holiday up in the hills just a few miles from Barrhill Station. I considered using the train one day to go into Stranraer and was amazed at how high the fare was for a local journey. Barrhill Station is a bit isolated but could serve quite a wide area. Locals are not going to pay over £15 return for a shopping trip into Stranaer when it is much easier by car. Surely a fare of about half that amount would be more realistic for this type of journey.

 

[hexagon789]

So the inevitable next question is, what is Radio Electronic Token Block? An electronic alternative to physical single line tokens, or something else?

I'm not being awkward, I just don't know this terminology.

Not awkward at all

Yes, the physical token is replaced by one sent electronically.

From Wikipedia:

On arrival at a "token exchange point", the driver reports his/her position to the signaller by radio and requests the "token" for the next section of line ahead. If the signaller is in a position to do so, he/she will issue the electronic token applicable to the section ahead. Simultaneously, the driver must operate a button on an apparatus in the cab to receive the token. The token is then transmitted to the train by radio. The Solid State Interlocking controlling the system prevents the issue of any token permitting conflicting movements.

In the same way as with the traditional system, when a physical token with the name of the section engraved on it would be carried in the cab, the electronic token is received and displayed by name on the train equipment. This token is the authority to occupy the single line, and it cannot be removed from the train until the driver him/herself releases it. After receiving the token, the driver is then given verbal permission to pass the “Stop Board” and enter that section; the stop board is used instead of signals and therefore needs no electrical supply. The fixed distant board on the approach has a single permanent AWS inductor which gives a warning in the cab regardless of the signal box instruction and has to be cancelled when passed. Points at the entrance to a crossing loop are spring-loaded for the correct track for facing movements, and are pushed across by the wheels for trailing movements; they too require no power or interlocking, other than for points heating purposes. In the facing direction, a 'points indicator' is provided to indicate to the driver that the points are correctly set. The points indicator is in the form of a yellow light, lit only while the points are electrically detected in the required position. The whole line can be operated by just one or two signallers and needs very little infrastructure other than the track itself, making it a very cost-effective method.

The simplicity of the lineside infrastructure in RETB areas was reduced by the installation of the Train Protection & Warning System. A train stop loop is provided at each stop board, and is normally activated (so that any train attempting to pass it will be immediately brought to a halt). When the signaller issues a token for a train to enter a section, the TPWS loop at the appropriate board is deactivated, so allowing the train to proceed. Indication of the state of the TPWS is provided by a blue light mounted below the stop board. This shows a steady blue light when the TPWS is activated, and a flashing blue light when it is deactivated.

 

[weastebusdepot]

A few years ago I was on holiday up in the hills just a few miles from Barrhill Station. I considered using the train one day to go into Stranraer and was amazed at how high the fare was for a local journey. Barrhill Station is a bit isolated but could serve quite a wide area. Locals are not going to pay over £15 return for a shopping trip into Stranaer when it is much easier by car. Surely a fare of about half that amount would be more realistic for this type of journey.

That situation occurs because Barrhill is within the SPT ticketing area, but Stranraer is within the Dumfries and Galloway area. So you get the situation that a ticket from Girvan to Glasgow is cheaper than a ticket from Barrhill to Stranraer even though the distance is many times greater.

During the couple of months while the line was closed due to the Ayr Station Hotel situation, it was reckoned that the only person traveling between Stranraer and Barrhill was the guy from the ticket office in Stranraer who caught the rail replacement minibus once a day to empty the Barrhill station bins and return. The route from New Luce to Barrhill being no more than a farm track, with the journey time for the replacement bus varying depending how many sheep were in the road and whether the local bull decided to stare out the driver.

 

[Altnabreac]

The best long term solution for me would be:

• New station at Belmont in Ayr;
• New four platform station at Ayr Hospital with Park and Ride and central platforms for terminating services from the north;
• Northward extension of Kilkerran loop to improve flexibility, together with resignalling of Ayr- Girvan to WSSC;
• Electrification from Ayr - Girvan;
• Platform 1 at Girvan (northbound) converted to two bay platforms accessed from north and south. Extended southwards to allow an 8 car unit in the northern portion and a 2 car unit in the southern portion;
• Platform 2 at Girvan maintained as a through line for stock swaps, charters etc with 2 daily services.
• Girvan - Stranraer operated as "One Engine in Steam" with signalling simplified and boxes usually switched out unless required for charter / freight operation;
• New one platform Dunragit station;
• Stranraer station moved to somewhere in the region of the Police Station / North West Castle Hotel. 2 Platform layout to allow for Charter trains, Tweedbank style.

The service patterns would be:

• Hourly service from Girvan - Glasgow Central running semi fast north from Ayr (Prestwick Town, Troon, Irvine, Kilwinning (maybe Prestwick airport if demand picks up);
• Two hourly service from Stranraer to Girvan operated by a single unit. Cross platform connection at Girvan with good connections;
• 3tph from Ayr Hospital P&R - Glasgow Central (integrated with the 1tph from Girvan);
• 1tph service from Ayr Hospital P&R - Kilmarnock - Glasgow Central;
• One daily service from Glasgow Central - Stranraer to allow unit swap and maintain direct links;
• One daily service from Stranraer - Glasgow Central to allow unit swap and maintain direct links.

I think that would give you a really sustainable service pattern and simplified operation.

 

[InOban]

I have to bring hard data into this discussion, but the ORR numbers say that just under 70,000 passengers arrived or departed from Stranraer in the last published year. That's 1400 a week, presumably 700 arrivals and 700 departures. From the timetable there are 8 trains each way on weekdays and 5 on a Sunday, so just over 50 trains each way. So each train leaves Stranraer with an average of 14 passengers, is less than 10% full.

There is also a bus service which takes about the same time to reach Girvan and serves much more significant places - Lendalfoot, Ballantrae and of course Cairnryan.

 

[clc]

The best long term solution for me would be:

....New four platform station at Ayr Hospital with Park and Ride and central platforms for terminating services from the north....

The service patterns would be:

..... 3tph from Ayr Hospital P&R - Glasgow Central (integrated with the 1tph from Girvan)....
.....1tph service from Ayr Hospital P&R - Kilmarnock - Glasgow Central...

That would be useful, especially with all the new homes planned adjacent to the hospital:-

https://www.urbanrealm.com/news/6173/Greenfield_expansion_of_Ayr_given_the_all_clear.html

 

[jimm]

I have to bring hard data into this discussion, but the ORR numbers say that just under 70,000 passengers arrived or departed from Stranraer in the last published year. That's 1400 a week, presumably 700 arrivals and 700 departures. From the timetable there are 8 trains each way on weekdays and 5 on a Sunday, so just over 50 trains each way. So each train leaves Stranraer with an average of 14 passengers, is less than 10% full.

There is also a bus service which takes about the same time to reach Girvan and serves much more significant places - Lendalfoot, Ballantrae and of course Cairnryan.

Fair enough to bring hard data into it, but perhaps it would also have been fair to note that the footfall figure at Stranraer has risen from 45,500 in 2013-14.

And the 2017-18 figure should also be considered in a context where in 2010-11, which I think was the last full year that the Stena ferries were running from Stranraer, the number of passengers in the official figures was just under 57,300.

That would suggest any losses of ferry foot passengers have been more than made up for since then by locals and some level of tourist traffic. The timetable adjustments allowed by no longer needing to work around the ferry sailing times appear to have made taking train a more attractive proposition for people in the town heading to Ayr and beyond.

Sadly the Ayr Station Hotel saga will no doubt make the 2018-19 figure look pretty grim by any measure.

 

[30907]

That would be useful, especially with all the new homes planned adjacent to the hospital:-

https://www.urbanrealm.com/news/6173/Greenfield_expansion_of_Ayr_given_the_all_clear.html

While I like Altnabreac's suggestion for making better use of the line immediately south of Ayr, I think the present 2-hourly (Glasgow-)Kilmarnock-Stranraer service is worth keeping, rather than splitting it at Girvan (maybe less the midnight boat train which no longer has a boat to connect with and must up the line's costs rather!).

 

[Highlandspring]

The future for Girvan to Stranraer - in signalling terms at least - is ScR Tokenless Block using refurbished instruments recovered from the Aberdeen to Inverness line.

 

[adrock1976]

Could Girvan - Stranraer (assuming if the route ever gets truncated to run that service as suggested by Altnabreac above) be run with Class 230s? It would be a simple and reasonably cheap option to do so, and would save having to swap 156s (or other diesel traction) over every day from Glasgow.

 

[Altnabreac]

Could Girvan - Stranraer (assuming if the route ever gets truncated to run that service as suggested by Altnabreac above) be run with Class 230s? It would be a simple and reasonably cheap option to do so, and would save having to swap 156s (or other diesel traction) over every day from Glasgow.

I’m not sure Scotrail would be keen on having such a small sub class though I think FOFNL have also proposed 230s as potentially running a Thurso - Georgemas shuttle.

A new order of scenic stock seems more likely to cover WHL, Stranraer and Dumfries from a Glasgow base.