Govia Thameslink- How likely am I to be prosecuted

[Tisy003]

Firstly, I admit I did a stupid thing. I was late for a train so I boarded it without buying a ticket. I didn’t run through gates and I was simply in a hurry. I figured I would buy a ticket when I got to Cambridge before going through the barriers. When I got to Cambridge Station, before I could buy the ticket I was met by police who were looking out for county lines but were checking tickets as well. I obviously had not got one and although the police declined to prosecute me they handed me over to a ticket inspector. The ticket inspector took my details , unfortunately as my phone had died by this point I couldn’t pay a fine so I was reported to prosecutions. I was beside myself and extremely sorry for my actions and cooperated fully.

The next day I rang the prosecutions department up and apologised again to them and explained. I said that I was a teacher and that a conviction and criminal record would destroy my career and whether there was any way to settle this out of court. The woman made some positive noises but said it was not her decision. They said they would be sending a notice of intention to prosecute letter out and I should write down everything I said to her and ask for an out of court settlement. The letter came yesterday and I did just that.

I know I am banged to rights , that I have no defence. I just wondered how likely in the experience of people am I likely to recieve an out of court settlement or will they decide to prosecute me. I am so very sorry I put myself in this position and I’m so ashamed.

 

[6Gman]

Firstly, even if this goes to a prosecution it is very, very unlikely to be career-destroying.

I'm slightly confused by your comment that "as my phone had died I couldn't pay a fine". Were you offered a penalty fare to settle the matter? If you were unable to pay a penalty fare how were you going to pay for the ticket?

There will be people who can give you good advice on here but we probably need a bit more detail on what was said/offered.

 

[WesternLancer]

Firstly, I admit I did a stupid thing. I was late for a train so I boarded it without buying a ticket. I didn’t run through gates and I was simply in a hurry. I figured I would buy a ticket when I got to Cambridge before going through the barriers. When I got to Cambridge Station, before I could buy the ticket I was met by police who were looking out for county lines but were checking tickets as well. I obviously had not got one and although the police declined to prosecute me they handed me over to a ticket inspector. The ticket inspector took my details , unfortunately as my phone had died by this point I couldn’t pay a fine so I was reported to prosecutions. I was beside myself and extremely sorry for my actions and cooperated fully.

The next day I rang the prosecutions department up and apologised again to them and explained. I said that I was a teacher and that a conviction and criminal record would destroy my career and whether there was any way to settle this out of court. The woman made some positive noises but said it was not her decision. They said they would be sending a notice of intention to prosecute letter out and I should write down everything I said to her and ask for an out of court settlement. The letter came yesterday and I did just that.

I know I am banged to rights , that I have no defence. I just wondered how likely in the experience of people am I likely to recieve an out of court settlement or will they decide to prosecute me. I am so very sorry I put myself in this position and I’m so ashamed.

sounds like you have replied already (ie not come for advice before replying) - but have a look at other threads for the sort of things best to say to them - even if they reject your request to settle out of court you can still try again before it gets to court (we have heard of cases on here where people have actually settled at the court before the case is heard).

Best thing to do is to head back here for further advice as and when they reply to you.

Probably pretty good chance of you getting a settlement I would think. So not a high chance of prosecution esp if you have not come to their attention before.

Note they may look at your ticket buying history on line purchases etc to see if there is anything suspicious or looks suspicious to them on that. But you will know if you have not paid fares on other occasions and if so how that arose.

 

[furlong]

Normally we see out-of-court settlements offered in cases like this.

Don't just rely on your phone for everything in future - carry some cash or an ordinary credit or debit card too!

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

The next day I rang the prosecutions department up and apologised again to them and explained. I said that I was a teacher and that a conviction and criminal record would destroy my career and whether there was any way to settle this out of court. The woman made some positive noises but said it was not her decision. They said they would be sending a notice of intention to prosecute letter out and I should write down everything I said to her and ask for an out of court settlement. The letter came yesterday and I did just that.

This is highly unlikely to destroy your teaching career. If you were convicted you would be advised to declare it to your employer, but it would be a very harsh headteacher who dismissed you for this single misdemeanour. If of course you didn’t declare it when asked about convictions that would be a very different matter

If you are a member of either teaching union speak to your school rep or local secretary. Both main unions also offer free legal advice from a firm of solicitors which you can find via their websites.

 

[ashkeba]

Cambridge station is managed by greater Anglia, so are you sure Thameslink took your details? They run some trains there, so it is possible, but not certain.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

We are seeing an increase in cases like this at the moment. Do you make this journey on a regular basis, for example to commute to work, or was it a one-off leisure trip? Why did you wait until the train got to Cambridge before attempting to purchase a ticket? Was it because you were going to but a ticket from a station closer to Cambridge as a way of getting through the barrier?

Where exactly did you start your journey from? Thsi is important because if there were no ticket issuing facilities at that station then you haven't comitted an offence (knowing many of the stations in the Cambridge area there almost certainly are ticket issuing facilities but it's worth checking). It sounds as though the ticket inspector you were referred to tried to charge you a Penalty Fare but unfortunately you did not pay this because your phone battery had died. Is there a reason why you couldn't pay this using a payment card or cash? Had you have paid this it would have been the end of the matter.

As for what will happen next you will be sent a letter from the train company or an investigation company acting on their behalf (this will likely be from Greater Anglia rather than Govia Thameslink Railway because they operate Cambridge station). The letter will typically take a couple of months to arrive but can be sooner although it shouldn't take longer than six months. The letter will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

The train company will be able to search your online purchase history and if you have a history of purchasing short distance tickets you will need to be careful how you reply to the letter. You should answer the questions they ask for truthfully but you are not required to incriminate yourself either.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter when it arrives, with personal details redacted, along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[Tisy003]

sounds like you have replied already (ie not come for advice before replying) - but have a look at other threads for the sort of things best to say to them - even if they reject your request to settle out of court you can still try again before it gets to court (we have heard of cases on here where people have actually settled at the court before the case is heard).

Best thing to do is to head back here for further advice as and when they reply to you.

Probably pretty good chance of you getting a settlement I would think. So not a high chance of prosecution esp if you have not come to their attention before.

Note they may look at your ticket buying history on line purchases etc to see if there is anything suspicious or looks suspicious to them on that. But you will know if you have not paid fares on other occasions and if so how that arose.

Yes I did reply to them, however before I did seek advice both from a solicitor as well as reading similar threads very carefully. I followed the main body of the advice, being truthful, apologising profusely, being brief and sticking to the facts and offering to pay out of court. This has all been advice that has been offered others. I also rang the company up and made my case in person and I feel there was genuine sympathy from the person I spoke to.

I am certain it was Thameslink handling the case as the letter I received was from Govia Thameslink. They now run the majority of the services through London Kings Cross, St Pancras and Brighton. As for Criminal record, I am just terrified that it will appear on a DBS certificate. I want to teach abroad at some stage and most countries take an extraordinarily dim view to any kind of criminal history. When I said it would ruin my career, it would severely inhibit my options. I have a spotless criminal record, have never recieved so much as a parking fine as well and it would be awful for a simple mistake to blot my record.

 

[Hadders]

I’m a bit confused about exactly what stage your case is at.

Can you upload all copies of correspondence you have been sent, with personal details redacted, so we able to offer appropriate advice.

 

[Tisy003]

I’m a bit confused about exactly what stage your case is at.

Can you upload all copies of correspondence you have been sent, with personal details redacted, so we able to offer appropriate advice.

I recieved an initial letter from Govia Thameslink which asked me for my version of events. I responded apologising profusely, explaining my version of events, promising never to do it again and saying I would pay costs. I also begged them to settle out of court. I sent this off Friday morning and am expecting it to recieve their office on Monday.

I unfortunately stupidly didn’t make a copy of the letter and my correspondence to them

 

[Hadders]

I recieved an initial letter from Govia Thameslink which asked me for my version of events. I responded apologising profusely, explaining my version of events, promising never to do it again and saying I would pay costs. I also begged them to settle out of court. I sent this off Friday morning and am expecting it to recieve their office on Monday.

I unfortunately stupidly didn’t make a copy of the letter and my correspondence to them

Ok thanks for confirming.

There isn’t really anything more to say or do at this point in time until you receive a reply from GTR. I suspect you will be offered a settlement as GTR are normally one of the more pragmatic companies when it comes to this sort of thing. I would draw you attention to my opening comments in my initial reply to your thread, if you have a history of buying tickets online or through an app from a closer station than where you have travelled from, GTR will be able to discover this. This doesn’t mean you won’t be offered a settlement but it will make it harder and probably more expensive.

Do let us know when you receive a reply from GTR and we will be happy to advise next steps.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes I did reply to them, however before I did seek advice both from a solicitor as well as reading similar threads very carefully. I followed the main body of the advice, being truthful, apologising profusely, being brief and sticking to the facts and offering to pay out of court. This has all been advice that has been offered others. I also rang the company up and made my case in person and I feel there was genuine sympathy from the person I spoke to.

I am certain it was Thameslink handling the case as the letter I received was from Govia Thameslink. They now run the majority of the services through London Kings Cross, St Pancras and Brighton. As for Criminal record, I am just terrified that it will appear on a DBS certificate. I want to teach abroad at some stage and most countries take an extraordinarily dim view to any kind of criminal history. When I said it would ruin my career, it would severely inhibit my options. I have a spotless criminal record, have never recieved so much as a parking fine as well and it would be awful for a simple mistake to blot my record.

Thanks for clarifying - sounds like you prepared well for that.

 

[island]

I'm slightly confused by your comment that "as my phone had died I couldn't pay a fine". Were you offered a penalty fare to settle the matter? If you were unable to pay a penalty fare how were you going to pay for the ticket?

My interpretation of that was that the OP's only method of payment was Apple/Google Pay.

 

[Tisy003]

My interpretation of that was that the OP's only method of payment was Apple/Google Pay.

Exactly that.

 

[Tisy003]

Dear everyone,

I am just writing to update you all so you all know what happened. The advice I received on here along with advice I received online proved very useful. I managed to negotiate a settlement with Thameslink for £206 costs and compensation. In return I will not be prosecuted and the issue has been dealt with and is at an end. For the benefit of people who are reading this and who are worrying see below my pieces of advice for you if you find yourself in a familiar situation.

1. Do not panic, there is plenty of opportunity to resolve this before it actually gets to court.
2. Be honest with Thameslink, don't incriminate yourself and tell them more than they need to know but if they send you a letter and you have done it, they have you banged to rights and its better to be honest and apologize rather than become defensive. Admit to it, apologize profusely and immediately offer to settle the matter out of court without prejudice.
3. Phone the prosecutions department up a few days after you get send the letter, they keep very good notes and it allows you to make your case again. The staff are lovely and very patient and if they see that you are sorry they will go out of their way to help you.
4. Don't quibble about the amount, just pay it unless you can prove you didn't do it then send the evidence in.
5. Thameslink in my view don't want to prosecute you unless you are a prolific offender. Don't repeat the same mistake again and always buy your ticket before getting on a train.

Thanks so much to everyone for the advice.

 

[WesternLancer]

Dear everyone,

I am just writing to update you all so you all know what happened. The advice I received on here along with advice I received online proved very useful. I managed to negotiate a settlement with Thameslink for £206 costs and compensation. In return I will not be prosecuted and the issue has been dealt with and is at an end. For the benefit of people who are reading this and who are worrying see below my pieces of advice for you if you find yourself in a familiar situation.

1. Do not panic, there is plenty of opportunity to resolve this before it actually gets to court.
2. Be honest with Thameslink, don't incriminate yourself and tell them more than they need to know but if they send you a letter and you have done it, they have you banged to rights and its better to be honest and apologize rather than become defensive. Admit to it, apologize profusely and immediately offer to settle the matter out of court without prejudice.
3. Phone the prosecutions department up a few days after you get send the letter, they keep very good notes and it allows you to make your case again. The staff are lovely and very patient and if they see that you are sorry they will go out of their way to help you.
4. Don't quibble about the amount, just pay it unless you can prove you didn't do it then send the evidence in.
5. Thameslink in my view don't want to prosecute you unless you are a prolific offender. Don't repeat the same mistake again and always buy your ticket before getting on a train.

Thanks so much to everyone for the advice.

Thanks for update and including what looks like v helpful advice for other people in future.

Good to read that you had a positive experience of the staff at Thameslink too. I suspect they have a tricky job to do in their own work.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for letting us know. That's a decent outcome all things being equal.

 

[432thameslink]

Hi,

When you called GTR, in which way did they provide assistance? Thanks for all the advice too!

 

[Tisy003]

Hi,

When you called GTR, in which way did they provide assistance? Thanks for all the advice too!

Hi there, they were quite reassuring. Answered questions. Expedited the letters so I got it quickly and also got the response quickly. I was very worried about it so they made the process happen as quickly as possible. They also advised what to put in the reply to make sure it was clear to the prosecutor that you wanted to settle. Some of the people were incredibly kind as well and reassured me that GTR tend to settle. They couldn't say they would in my case but they listened. They also wrote everything I said onto the system so it was clear I was sorry so the person that makes the decision can do it quickly. They were really kind

 

[30907]

Hi there, they were quite reassuring. Answered questions. Expedited the letters so I got it quickly and also got the response quickly. I was very worried about it so they made the process happen as quickly as possible. They also advised what to put in the reply to make sure it was clear to the prosecutor that you wanted to settle. Some of the people were incredibly kind as well and reassured me that GTR tend to settle. They couldn't say they would in my case but they listened. They also wrote everything I said onto the system so it was clear I was sorry so the person that makes the decision can do it quickly. They were really kind

That's also worth knowing about for future readers - thanks.

 

[shering]

Thank you so much for sharing this. I am in a similar situation and (also as a teacher) am feeling really worried about it. I haven't found a number to be able to call them and explain my situation, would you be able to share the number you spoke to them on? Thank you and really glad everything worked out for you.

 

[Gloster]

Thank you so much for sharing this. I am in a similar situation and (also as a teacher) am feeling really worried about it. I haven't found a number to be able to call them and explain my situation, would you be able to share the number you spoke to them on? Thank you and really glad everything worked out for you.

It is always best to start your own thread as no two problems are exactly the same and good advice for one person can be bad advice for another.

 

[Hadders]

Thank you so much for sharing this. I am in a similar situation and (also as a teacher) am feeling really worried about it. I haven't found a number to be able to call them and explain my situation, would you be able to share the number you spoke to them on? Thank you and really glad everything worked out for you.

Please start your own thread so we are able to offer you the best advice.

We need to know where you were travelling from/to, what happened and whther you have received a letter from the train company. If you have been sent a letter can you post a copy of it in your thread with any personal details, case reference numbers redacted.

 

[Cowley]

It looks like this particular thread has served its purpose and thank you to everyone that’s helped out with advice.

@shering - I’ve sent you a pm if you could check your conversations

Thanks everyone.