Great Northern Fleet - 379s

[swt_passenger]

I was wondering what service group they would use the 387's on that are self contained, as to not cause unit incompatibility & Crewing issues.

East Croydon to Watford junction
London Victoria to East grinstead

A 387 made it to Portsmouth on a test run the other day, maybe Brighton to Portsmouth/ Southampton central west coast routes.

The use of some 387s to Southampton has been known about for a couple of months, it was all explained in the SN consultation stuff posted in the Coastway timetable changes thread.

A route diagram at the end of the post here includes intended rolling stock:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...tion-coastway-west.252975/page-6#post-6614601

 

[jon0844]

Apologies if already mentioned, do you think / anyone know if the 379s will actually get the Great Northern livery when they re-enter service? I.e the Thameslink livery with the Great Northern logo.

They'll get the GN logo on the outside and the relevant GN signage inside (route maps, CCTV info, safety info) and that's going to be about it. Given how the previous branding was removed, it's going to be a very simple job.

I am not sure if the 379s had a yellow strip above first class? It would be good to have a different colour strip for the accessible coach door if they didn't already. The GWR 387s don't have either, which is a bit of an oversight (as well as the Wi-Fi not working - as in no working pop-up to let you log in and connect to the Internet).

I assume the 379s had Wi-Fi (I can't remember now) so that will be another thing that should be addressed, but might possibly be forgotten about!

 

[Benno]

They'll get the GN logo on the outside and the relevant GN signage inside (route maps, CCTV info, safety info) and that's going to be about it. Given how the previous branding was removed, it's going to be a very simple job.

I am not sure if the 379s had a yellow strip above first class? It would be good to have a different colour strip for the accessible coach door if they didn't already. The GWR 387s don't have either, which is a bit of an oversight (as well as the Wi-Fi not working - as in no working pop-up to let you log in and connect to the Internet).

I assume the 379s had Wi-Fi (I can't remember now) so that will be another thing that should be addressed, but might possibly be forgotten about!

They have the yellow stripe above first class.

 

[Bikeman78]

I assume the 379s had Wi-Fi (I can't remember now) so that will be another thing that should be addressed, but might possibly be forgotten about!

I am sure they did. The 317s had it.

 

[bramling]

They could increase capacity by improving utilisation of the 717's and 700/0 but really could do with a couple of 700/1's to cover the additional Peterborough to eliminate all the 387's.

I doubt there would be any desire to eliminate 387s from Peterborough, as this would reduce flexibility having to rely on 700a as the sole traction. Having some 387s there keeps crew knowledge up. May 18 had some 387 workings even though the bulk of the extras were 365s.

I daresay passengers probably prefer the 387s as well.

 

[physics34]

Apologies if already mentioned, do you think / anyone know if the 379s will actually get the Great Northern livery when they re-enter service? I.e the Thameslink livery with the Great Northern logo.

Its quite odd considering that GTR are very brand aware that they dont seem to care much for the Thameslink or Great Northern livery ..it being so bland... unless of course the DfT have control over all of that.

I believe we'll see more red 387s on coastway services than we seen now soon aswell.

It cements home the idea that there now needs to be standardised liveries across the board as cascades of stock will always be a possibility.

 

[jon0844]

I've never thought much of the Thameslink logo, but they're just logos and surely it's subjective as to whether they're bland or not?

Each brand has its own logo and distinct colour scheme and style guides etc.

 

[physics34]

I've never thought much of the Thameslink logo, but they're just logos and surely it's subjective as to whether they're bland or not?

Each brand has its own logo and distinct colour scheme and style guides etc.

Bland maybe the wrong word... lacking effort/very simple maybe. Im gonna guess the 379s will keep the dark blue doors with just the GN logo applied.

 

[jon0844]

Bland maybe the wrong word... lacking effort/very simple maybe. Im gonna guess the 379s will keep the dark blue doors with just the GN logo applied.

Yes, just like they did on the GatEx units, the c2c units, and now the GWR units (which actually didn't even get the light blue strips for the disabled door, or yellow for first class - in fact, not sure the GatEx ones did/do either?).

 

[MikeWM]

I am sure they did. The 317s had it.

The 379s did, yes. Decent quality too IIRC.

--

Yes, just like they did on the GatEx units, the c2c units, and now the GWR units (which actually didn't even get the light blue strips for the disabled door, or yellow for first class - in fact, not sure the GatEx ones did/do either?).

I'm not sure either :-/ It looks a bit of a mess currently, but I suppose it does add a bit of colour to a fleet of otherwise tediously white trains.

With respect to wifi, GN eventually converted the GatEx and c2c units to their wifi, though (so far?) not the GWR ones (which still have a 'GWR Wifi' network listed, though of course it doesn't work). Whether that proves anything or not, I don't know!

 

[fgwrich]

Its quite odd considering that GTR are very brand aware that they dont seem to care much for the Thameslink or Great Northern livery ..it being so bland... unless of course the DfT have control over all of that.

I believe we'll see more red 387s on coastway services than we seen now soon aswell.

It cements home the idea that there now needs to be standardised liveries across the board as cascades of stock will always be a possibility.

Never understood why they didn't roll out the style used for the Thank You NHS liveries to be honest, both looked smart and would have bought a fresher, more cohesive feel to the TSGN franchise.

700111

Having just served Biggleswade station on the 9J17 08:24 Peterborough to Horsham service, Thameslink Class 700/1 No.700111 accelerates south on 6th October 2020. The unit is one of three Govia Thameslink-run EMUs to carry liveries in support of NHS and key workers during the COVID-19 pandemic...

www.flickr.com

Southern sundown

Late-running 377208 with 1J49 1615 Portsmouth & Southsea to London Victoria arriving at Barnham. Westbound NHS-liveried 377111.

www.flickr.com

 

[physics34]

Never understood why they didn't roll out the style used for the Thank You NHS liveries to be honest, both looked smart and would have bought a fresher, more cohesive feel to the TSGN franchise.

700111

Having just served Biggleswade station on the 9J17 08:24 Peterborough to Horsham service, Thameslink Class 700/1 No.700111 accelerates south on 6th October 2020. The unit is one of three Govia Thameslink-run EMUs to carry liveries in support of NHS and key workers during the COVID-19 pandemic...

www.flickr.com

Southern sundown

Late-running 377208 with 1J49 1615 Portsmouth & Southsea to London Victoria arriving at Barnham. Westbound NHS-liveried 377111.

www.flickr.com

Its an interesting design... but they couldnt even be bothered to put it on a whoe unit let alone a fleet lol

 

[Mgameing123]

Does anyone know if they will change the seats on the 379? I could see the DFT ruining the seats for the sake of making trains less attractive.

 

[jon0844]

Its an interesting design... but they couldnt even be bothered to put it on a whoe unit let alone a fleet lol

GTR paid for the livery out of its own pocket, so I assume there wasn't unlimited funds.

Does anyone know if they will change the seats on the 379? I could see the DFT ruining the seats for the sake of making trains less attractive.

No internal changes besides signage, at least to begin with.

 

[Class 800]

GTR paid for the livery out of its own pocket, so I assume there wasn't unlimited funds.



No internal changes besides signage, at least to begin with.

So we now have a fleet of 387s with wildly different looking interiors.

When will we get some homogenization and hopefully a more interesting livery?

 

[Mgameing123]

So we now have a fleet of 387s with wildly different looking interiors.

When will we get some homogenization and hopefully a more interesting livery?

Don't ask for same interiors. That will mean that 379's interior would be downgraded.

 

[Class 800]

Don't ask for same interiors. That will mean that 379's interior would be downgraded.

Oh, no, I didn’t mean that. I hope I’ve not jinxed it.

 

[RealTrains07]

So we now have a fleet of 387s with wildly different looking interiors.

When will we get some homogenization and hopefully a more interesting livery?

Interiors across the 387 fleet are the same or at least almost the same surely except for the colour pallet used by each operator?

With the 379s we can only hope for a fleet whose interior finally matches the GN brand and isn't just southern in all but name

 

[Sutton in Ant]

The 387 interiors on Great Northern are this—exception for the 172s-174s and 201s. The other 387s have seating that is made for the Southern network.

 

[branny_rail465]

What is interesting is why southern’s 5 car units are classed as 377/6 and 377/7. Surely shouldn’t they be classed as 387/6 or 387/7 because they are literally the same as Gatwick express units except 4 cars and gatwick express colours.

I think they arent as robust, but I could be wrong. The class 387s come in at 174 tons per 4 car. The class 377/7 and 6s, when you remove the weight of the second motor car come in at a similar weight to standard 377s and what not.

My guess is is that the added bulk of class 387s may be down to some minor structural reinforcement. But who knows tbh. Maybe class 377/6s and 7s are capable of 110mph without much change required?

 

[43096]

I think they arent as robust, but I could be wrong. The class 387s come in at 174 tons per 4 car. The class 377/7 and 6s, when you remove the weight of the second motor car come in at a similar weight to standard 377s and what not.

My guess is is that the added bulk of class 387s may be down to some minor structural reinforcement. But who knows tbh. Maybe class 377/6s and 7s are capable of 110mph without much change required?

A 377/6 would need plenty of change to do 110mph. A pantographer, transformer and associated gubbins for a start!

 

[branny_rail465]

They could increase capacity by improving utilisation of the 717's and 700/0 but really could do with a couple of 700/1's to cover the additional Peterborough to eliminate all the 387's.

I dont truly think that would happen. Unless they increase more capacity along the kings lynn services with class 387s. Either 387s come down south, or they'd go into storage as a result of Class 700s/717s replacing them. At the same time, Class 387s are pretty universal fleet. So they could go west, and south.

Interiors across the 387 fleet are the same or at least almost the same surely except for the colour pallet used by each operator?

With the 379s we can only hope for a fleet whose interior finally matches the GN brand and isn't just southern in all but name

Honestly I hate the laziness of modern day fleet liveries and their lack of creativity. Have you seen oversees liveries on German trains? They look spectacular.

In the UK the liveries are so bad now. Great Northern dont really have a livery when you think about it. They just keep whatever the trains they inherited came with. The class 387/1s seem to have originally been for southern . But the livery seemed to be incomplete on puspose and given to Great Northern, Its a shame truly. Not sure when bland UK liveries will change.

A 377/6 would need plenty of change to do 110mph. A pantographer, transformer and associated gubbins for a start!

I think class 377/7s already have those features mostly. A pantograph/transformer and an overall 25KV AC system on the train. Im curious as to what other than those features, do they require? Perhaps they arent crashworthy at 110mph?

Even then , Class 379s are also 100mph only? I wonder why?.

Also please enlighten me on what "gubbins" means, thank you.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

gubbins noun - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage notes | Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com

Definition of gubbins noun in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary. Meaning, pronunciation, picture, example sentences, grammar, usage notes, synonyms and more.

www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com

gubbins​

noun

/ˈɡʌbɪnz/


/ˈɡʌbɪnz/
[uncountable] (British English, informal)

1. various things that are not important
   • All the gubbins that came with the computer is still in the box.

 

[Doomotron]

Even then , Class 379s are also 100mph only? I wonder why?.

Because the WAML has a top speed of 80mph, the Fen Line 90, and the GEML a top speed of 100. No reason for the 379s to go any faster.

 

[Magdalia]

the WAML has a top speed of 80mph

That's not quite correct. Between Shepreth Branch Junction and near to Littlebury tunnel is 90 mph, apart from a short break through Whittlesford. There is also a short 90mph section between Broxbourne and Roydon, and some more at 85mph in the Lea Valley.

 

[RUK]

Honestly I hate the laziness of modern day fleet liveries and their lack of creativity…

In the UK the liveries are so bad now. Great Northern dont really have a livery when you think about it. They just keep whatever the trains they inherited came with. The class 387/1s seem to have originally been for southern . But the livery seemed to be incomplete on puspose and given to Great Northern, Its a shame truly. Not sure when bland UK liveries will change.

Is this not specified by the Government on purpose, so that the operators have to spend less money on re-branding and re-liverying the trains when the operator changes? I thought that was the case starting when ThamesLink and Great Northern replaced First Capital Connect. I saw a mock-up of the Class 700s in First Dynamic Lines livery for First Capital Connect when they were first ordered, and thought that they looked quite good, though oddly I seem to remember that I thought it looked aged and of its time compared to when it was replaced by the, admittedly rather bland, ThamesLink livery on the Class 365s.

 

[Doomotron]

That's not quite correct. Between Shepreth Branch Junction and near to Littlebury tunnel is 90 mph, apart from a short break through Whittlesford. There is also a short 90mph section between Broxbourne and Roydon, and some more at 85mph in the Lea Valley.

Still, it's under the 100mph top speed of the 379s.

 

[Lknowles78]

I've never thought much of the Thameslink logo, but they're just logos and surely it's subjective as to whether they're bland or not?

Each brand has its own logo and distinct colour scheme and style guides etc.

The Thameslink/Great Northern bland livery was born around the same time as the grey East Coast livery IIRC because the DfT specified bland base liveries to allow just the operator logo and to prevent trains running around in previous operator’s colours when the franchise changed. I think that’s why Virgin West Coast went white too with flowing silk coach ends. They can be ripped off easily and the train doesn’t need repainting.

I wish GN would at least adopt vinyls on the doors of the 387s and 379s in the Thameslink light blue for a little bit of commonality!

 

[jon0844]

The GWR 387s need a Great Northern logo, as there's currently nothing. They also need the relevant first class and accessible coach markings, and the c2c units also need the yellow first class strip. The marking of first class is very poor, and it isn't declassified in either unit - so it needs to be clearer for those boarding in the middle of first class.

Otherwise, the base colours don't really matter as I can't see the DfT funding anything like that for some time. The 379s will arrive as they have been sat in storage, with just the signage changed - and at some time in the future, they'll presumably get the refresh works with the new LCD displays, upgraded power sockets (unless the 379s already had USB-A as well as 3-pin) and whatever else was done as part of the upgrade works.

 

[Doomotron]

The Thameslink/Great Northern bland livery was born around the same time as the grey East Coast livery IIRC because the DfT specified bland base liveries to allow just the operator logo and to prevent trains running around in previous operator’s colours when the franchise changed. I think that’s why Virgin West Coast went white too with flowing silk coach ends. They can be ripped off easily and the train doesn’t need repainting.

I wish GN would at least adopt vinyls on the doors of the 387s and 379s in the Thameslink light blue for a little bit of commonality!

The East Coast livery is quite a bit older than the Thameslink grey livery. As far as I'm aware it was first applied as part of the Class 365 refurbishment that started near the end of the First Capital Connect franchise.


As far as the different liveries on 387s are concerned, I like the variety and I'm not really bothered about a consistent image. It reminds me a lot of the early days of the Class 375 refurbishment where the dark blue 375s mixed with five different white-based liveries.