GWR 10 car 800/802 combo?

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JonathanH

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Looking at the allocations on RTT I have come across a 10 car IET which is showing operated by a 800 and a 802. Is RTT showing this correctly as I didn't think the two classes were compatible with each other.

Realtime Trains - 1A83 1018 Penzance to London Paddington

Realtime Trains - 1C60 1638 London Paddington to Penzance
The apparent combination (of 802009 and 800036) worked west on the 1403 from Paddington yesterday. 800036 had come off an Oxford service earlier. 802009 arrived on a service from Cheltenham.

The fact that it is shown on two days on RTT does lend credence to the idea that it actually is a 800+802 formation. It would seem unlikely that it will go back on the 1638 though.
 

irish_rail

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Last I heard this isn't meant to be occurring just yet, although I did see a 800 802 combo arrive at Laira a few weeks back (in error i presumed). Maybe the instruction has been changed now then.
 

FGW_DID

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There was a brief issued the other day (edit: Friday 10th) about the two classes being able to be used coupled up in service. I haven’t got it immediately to hand but there are still some differences and it depends which of the 2 units is ‘leading’. I believe there is a forthcoming software update for the 802s which will resolve that and there will be 100% compatibility.
 

Saj8

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When an 800 and an 802 is coupled up, only friction braking is available, no matter which set is leading.

When the 800 is leading, the DOO CCTV images can't be seen on the 802 unit. When the 802 is leading, there is no difference in operation.

This comes from the brief FGW_DID mentioned.
 

MotCO

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Are the leasing arangements (and responsibility for maintenance) any different between the 800s and 802s? Does running the trains together cause any contractual issues? (I assume not since there was a FGW briefing, but just asking.)
 

Horizon22

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800s and 802s are now able to be coupled up, but this is very recent alteration and is subject to agreement from GWR Control. There was often a concern that too many 800s were being sent down to the W. Country as 10-cars; at least this way the right set can be split to ensure allocations are correct for future days.

A number of test trains have run in recent months to test the operation and have been deemed suitable - with the restrictions listed above. Door release was initially the issue and the TMS throwing a hissy fit. There's an issue with DOO cameras when the 800 is leading, but they don't run using the DOO CCTV anyway in 10-cars.
 

irish_rail

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Still can't help but feeling they should just be 9 car sets in the first place, especially now they rarely split and join at Plymouth. Too often there is a shortage of customer hosts and only one portion of the train gets catered. This is likely to get worse with forthcoming budget cuts, can't see a rush to employ loads more customer hosts.
 

Horizon22

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I notice that today 800007 and 802003 are working together in multi.


In a previous now locked thread @Clarence Yard stated this was only possible in an emergency. Has this situation now changed or is it some form of temporary arrangement due to the cracking situation?

The only issue is with DOO cameras when the 800 is leading and only the friction brake available, but other issues have been resolved.
 
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fgwrich

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Shame it's taken so long for Hitachi to "relax" a little about where their units end up too, but it's good to see that one has somewhat been resolved.
 
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Horizon22

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Shame it's taken so long for Hitachi to "relax" a little about where their units end up too, but it's good to see that one has somewhat been resolved.

I think the words "relax" and "Hitachi" are difficult to use in the same sentence!
 

DanNCL

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It’s a shame this hasn’t spread to the East Coast arm of Agility/Hitachi. The instruction on the east coast is that 800s and 801s aren’t to be coupled to an 802 or 803 “under any circumstances”, which includes in an emergency. Obviously there’d be no need for them to couple apart from in an emergency but it would be useful for the (regular) occasions where the ECML goes tits up! It was already a pain them not being permitted to be rescued by a 67 or 91 with an emergency adaptor but that was understandable, the refusal to allow rescue by 802s and 803s isn’t.

The commonly used argument in the east coast that the two fleets are incompatible has been disproven twice now, as in addition to GWR now proving it in service, at least one of the Doncaster - Eastleigh moves a few years ago was worked by an 801 in multiple with a TPE 802.
 

irish_rail

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It was a bit of an emergency, and I suppose due to yesterday's mass disruption on the b and h giving a mismatch of sets in the West. That service is usually a 9 car not a rancid 10!
 

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