GWR Sunday Cancellations - crew availability - why?

[MagicalWill]

It seems that suddenly the last few weeks GWR has had mass cancellations/major last minute time table changes on Sundays due to "crew availability".

This is rather vague, and I'd like to try and understand why suddenly traveling on a Sunday has got even more stressful.

Does anyone know
1) what "crew availability" actually means for the GWR Sunday cancellations/in this context and
2) why it has seemingly suddenly started over the last few weeks please - whereas before this traveling on a Sunday was much easier.
3) why they can't give at least two days notice (or more!) that there will be issues

Thank you!

 

[father_jack]

It's a vague acceptance of what's been the case for years with lack of recruitment and that has become worse this with retirements this year and back pay from now solved politically motivated strikes feeding through.....

 

[MagicalWill]

Oh yay, another vague statement saying journey planners will not be updated until Sunday morning!? Why GWR!? https://x.com/GWRHelp/status/1862194620626509960
How is anyone supposed to ever travel on a Sunday?
I get there's engineering work - and I can see that in the timetable, so what's changed this evening!?

 

[Horizon22]

Sundays are outside the working week for almost all GWR traincrew. It relies effectively on overtime.

Overtime take up rates have gone right down over the past few years, and older train crew are passing them by. And the take up has got worse since the back pay deal. As a result you need to have 100 diagrams covered and you only have 50. This means train cancellations.

See Northern which has exactly the same issue. Operators that have Sunday in the working week have far fewer problems.

 

[MagicalWill]

Okay thank you - but why is it always so last minute? Why can't they know who's volunteered for overtime decently far in advance? Why promise a timetable if they know they can't honor it?

 

[Horizon22]

Okay thank you - but why is it always so last minute? Why can't they know who's volunteered for overtime decently far in advance? Why promise a timetable if they know they can't honor it?

Because train crew can opt out at relatively short notice. Timetables and ticket purchasing are available months in advance

 

[MagicalWill]

It’s a shame they keep publishing the Sunday timetables when they must know by now (are we on the 4th or 5th week) they won’t be able to fulfil them.
Surprised they haven’t got an emergency bare minimum Sunday timetable or something so we can at least plan journeys in advance.

 

[Sporty60]

It’s a shame they keep publishing the Sunday timetables when they must know by now (are we on the 4th or 5th week) they won’t be able to fulfil them.
Surprised they haven’t got an emergency bare minimum Sunday timetable or something so we can at least plan journeys in advance.

Far too sensible.

 

[Zerothebrake!]

They were 'rescued' last Sunday by the poor weather and flooding as hardly any of their trains were going to run anyway..

 

[jayah]

Sundays are outside the working week for almost all GWR traincrew. It relies effectively on overtime.

Pieceing together bits of other threads.

GWR Drivers on High Speed Contracts can opt out. LTV, West and are Committed. This also applies to all new hires since about 2019 on new contracts.

Guards can also opt out, but many GWR services in the LTV area don't have them.

Committed Sundays Thread

 

[Sly Old Fox]

There was a big thread about this a few weeks ago but it got locked. The information in there is still valid now.

 

[mrcheek]

Basically GWR are just being honest for once.
GWR has been a shambles every Sunday for years. They never have enough crew, and there are always multiple cancellations, but usually they are literally announced at the last minute.
It may be because they have to make an announcement about engineering works in any case that they felt they might as well add to it "oh yeah, its Sunday, so good luck getting a train even once the works are done, suckers!"

 

[KeithMcC]

It isn't just Sunday, my North Downs line train was cancelled last night due to lack of train crew. Another 62 minute delay and full refund.

 

[Western 52]

I travel most Saturdays on GWR and it's very rare to be able to use the trains I've planned. Plenty of Saturday cancellations too!

 

[Bradford PA]

Ironically, on Thameslink the services seem to stand up pretty well on Sundays but the evening and, increasingly, afternoon trains are seeing more cancellations due to "Staff shortages".

 

[contrex]

What is the 'LTV area' on GWR?

 

[JN114]

What is the 'LTV area' on GWR?

LTV stands for London and Thames Valley - The routes formerly operated by Thames Trains

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Far too sensible.

DfT have consented to service reductions at other operators to reflect resourcing issues but are conspicuous by their absence here. Maybe the new SoS will actually concentrate on policy rather than dabbling and set direction for the industry over a 7 day railway even if its going to take years to realsie it.

 

[jayah]

DfT have consented to service reductions at other operators to reflect resourcing issues but are conspicuous by their absence here. Maybe the new SoS will actually concentrate on policy rather than dabbling and set direction for the industry over a 7 day railway even if its going to take years to realsie it.

At the Rail North Committee meeting, Northern were adamant they would not do this.

The question was not even put as to enquire how Avanti and TPE, both of whom were in the room, managed to break out of the knot, and why Northern aren't doing the things that have actually worked.

I would also dispute the idea it needs years to fix this issue more permanently. The necessary hours are already being worked and paid for, even on the 35hr week contracts, they just aren't on the right days of the week. The passenger railway is carrying massive amounts of fresh air around on weekdays.

 

[Goldfish62]

The passenger railway is carrying massive amounts of fresh air around on weekdays.

Which lines? And cutting weekday services many of which have already been cut to back to the bone as part of the DfT cost cutting agenda in order to transfer staff resources to Sundays isn't going to solve anything. It's going to make the railways even more unattractive.

And let's not forget that there are plenty of staff who have never worked on Sundays and no amount of financial inducement will change their minds.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

At the Rail North Committee meeting, Northern were adamant they would not do this.

Bizarre course of action when this Sunday they are basically running a rail replacement service across most of the NW routes. They would be far better to just not run trains on these routes until such time as they have a secure resource plan.

The question was not even put as to enquire how Avanti and TPE, both of whom were in the room, managed to break out of the knot, and why Northern aren't doing the things that have actually worked.

Sadly all these committees are populated by politicians who never ask the challenging questions but at least TfN publish whats going on and give us a useful insight.

I would also dispute the idea it needs years to fix this issue more permanently. The necessary hours are already being worked and paid for, even on the 35hr week contracts, they just aren't on the right days of the week. The passenger railway is carrying massive amounts of fresh air around on weekdays.

For sure the service needs to better match demand but that requires a set of T&Cs to enable that and until someone bites the bullet and accepts that principle we wont get out of this hole. Also I would be surprised if the unions were prepared to entertain a roster that is biased around weekends over weekdays.

 

[jayah]

For sure the service needs to better match demand but that requires a set of T&Cs to enable that and until someone bites the bullet and accepts that principle we wont get out of this hole. Also I would be surprised if the unions were prepared to entertain a roster that is biased around weekends over weekdays.

Whether it involves a 35hr week or a 37hr week, a permanent fix for this means a new contract.

Politically and financially, circa. 20% uplift in pay to sweeten the deal is untenable. As per P&O, if it is done as a mandatory restructuring, essential to the viability of the employer (which is unarguable) it shouldn't be possible for the unions to call a strike over a contract their members signed to stay in employment, or didn't sign by choosing to make themselves redundant.

They could strike over the next pay award, but they would still have zero political traction.

However I can't see a Labour government going there, with or without Louise Haigh, so the current mess shall probably continue indefinitely. Anyone up for £1,000/day?

 

[Falcon1200]

The passenger railway is carrying massive amounts of fresh air around on weekdays.

Whereabouts? Certainly not on any of the TOCs I use on weekdays, these being most recently Scotrail, Avanti, Northern, West Midlands, Cross Country, Transpennine and Chiltern.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

GWR Do Not Travel tomorrow unless absolutely necessary again


They need to put in a reduced timetable like Northern have finally done that reflects the reality of the limited resources available on a Sunday however unpalatable. Its madness selling tickets in advance when they aren't even sure what might run tomorrow this will just dissuade people from travelling but even worse those people will dissuade another 5 people by telling them how they've been treated..

 

[jayah]

Whereabouts? Certainly not on any of the TOCs I use on weekdays, these being most recently Scotrail, Avanti, Northern, West Midlands, Cross Country, Transpennine and Chiltern.

Funnily enough very few people use the trains that carry very few people.

But many TOCs do now offer a 'how busy is my train' type of page on their websites to assist you.

 

[jayah]

GWR Do Not Travel tomorrow unless absolutely necessary again

View attachment 170259
They need to put in a reduced timetable like Northern have finally done that reflects the reality of the limited resources available on a Sunday however unpalatable. Its madness selling tickets in advance when they aren't even sure what might run tomorrow this will just dissuade people from travelling but even worse those people will dissuade another 5 people by telling them how they've been treated..

They seem to be implementing that by the side door, agreeing modest extensions of the no trains period at Paddington on Sunday mornings and using this to create some constructive confusion around the real reason you are being told not to attempt to travel from Exeter to Torquay tomorrow evening.

Northern have 330 full cancellations listed between now and the end of Sunday, I not sure what reduced timetable that is being measured against!

 

[londonmidland]

Cross Country isn’t much better either, unfortunately.

The Birmingham Christmas markets coupled with train crew shortages is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Falcon1200]

Funnily enough very few people use the trains that carry very few people.

But presumably you are one of the Few, in order to be able to make that statement; Any examples please?

 

[Caaardiff]

It's one thing TFW have got right. Drivers now have Sundays as part of the working week and TFW see's very few cancellations due to resource availability lately. Sunday is now one of the busiest days for travel on TFW's network and i'm sure that is the same across the country.
Peoples travel habits have changed and TOC's need to grasp that and deal with it. I wonder how much revenue is lost from cancellations and refunds?

 

[jayah]

But presumably you are one of the Few, in order to be able to make that statement; Any examples please?

I've already stated how to find the information.