Hallam line

[YorkshireBear]

Dont know about name but im talking about sheffiled barnsley leeds/huddersfield.

This has been my local line for 18 years (except since i moved to uni).

I know very little and can find very little about linespeeds and capacity signalling etc so was wondering if anyone could give me any information on it?

and also is there anyway or proposals for any improvements for it?

cheers in advance

 

[Drsatan]

For track layouts, signalling positions and linespeeds look at Quail Trackmaps Number 4 (which should cover the Hallam line). You can buy it here: http://www.trackmaps.co.uk/trackmaps/product.asp?productid=6&shopcategory=3

For future plans try reading through whichever RUS (Route Utilisation Strategy) you think includes the line you're after http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/4449.aspx

 

[yorksrob]

I think they've pretty much done the service improvements that they intended to do with the route with the introduction of the Sheffield and Nottingham express services. Sadly not much use if, like me you live at one of the intermediate stations.

 

[Tomnick]

If I'm not mistaken, signalling is TCB Sheffield PSB - Barnsley (mostly two-aspect, with fairly long sections), then AB Barnsley - Woolley Coal Sidings - Horbury, then TCB to Kirkgate and onto York.

That, and linespeeds and other details, can be confirmed in Table A of the Sectional Appendix, a snapshot of which was released by Network Rail last year. There's a link to it somewhere on the forums, but you might be able to find it on Network Rail's website by searching 'baseline declaration'.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

This map of Line and Junction speeds might be the one people are referring to:-
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/rus%20documents/route%20utilisation%20strategies/yorkshire%20and%20humber/baseline%20information/maps/yorkshire%20and%20humber%20rus%20line%20and%20junction%20speeds.pdf

The Sectional Appendix of the east coast and midland, as of April 2009 is here: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/baseline%20capability/track%20and%20route%20mileage,%20permissible%20line%20speeds/table%20a_track_and_route%20miles_linespeed_lne_mc%20routes.pdf

The Rail Utilisation Strategy (RUS) for the region, which discusses potential improvements, dated July 2009, is here : http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20documents/rus%20documents/route%20utilisation%20strategies/yorkshire%20and%20humber/york&humber_rus.pdf

 

[Tomnick]

The second link (Table A of the Sectional Appendix) was the one I was referring to - gives all permanent speed restrictions (rather than just an overview of linespeed by route) as well as the method of signalling and other details. Thanks for digging out the location!

 

[tbtc]

I think they've pretty much done the service improvements that they intended to do with the route with the introduction of the Sheffield and Nottingham express services. Sadly not much use if, like me you live at one of the intermediate stations.

That's basically it.

A few years ago there were only three trains an hour on the line from Sheffield to Barnsley, only one of which went to Leeds (stopping at everywhere via Castleford). The current service is as good as it's been, and probably as good as it's going to get for some time.

 

[bradders1983]

That's basically it.

A few years ago there were only three trains an hour on the line from Sheffield to Barnsley, only one of which went to Leeds (stopping at everywhere via Castleford). The current service is as good as it's been, and probably as good as it's going to get for some time.

I only thought it was 2tph?

- 1 tph to Huddersfield via Barnsley and Penistone
- 1 tph to Leeds via Barnsley, Wakefield Kirkgate and Castleford

Which was the third? I didnt think there was a third until the Leeds-Wakefield K - Barnsley - Sheffield - Nottingham service started a few years back?

Midland Mainline (now EMT) used to have an evening service from London StP to Barnsley (via Sheffield) and a morning reverse, but this was removed a number of years ago along with the York extention

 

[YorkshireBear]

It used to be one fast to leeds one stopper to leeds one stopper to hhuddersfield didn't it?

then another fast with an extension to nottingham?

 

[brompton rail]

Before Northern introduced the semi fast Leeds / Sheffield service there was a Sheffield, Barnsley, Wakefield stopping service. Sponsored by SYPTE I believe its main purpose was to increase the frequency within South Yorkshire.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I only thought it was 2tph?

- 1 tph to Huddersfield via Barnsley and Penistone
- 1 tph to Leeds via Barnsley, Wakefield Kirkgate and Castleford

Which was the third? I didnt think there was a third until the Leeds-Wakefield K - Barnsley - Sheffield - Nottingham service started a few years back?

Midland Mainline (now EMT) used to have an evening service from London StP to Barnsley (via Sheffield) and a morning reverse, but this was removed a number of years ago along with the York extention

MML ran 3 services to / from Barnsley for a number of years. Morning to St P, and evening return (running in the opposite direction for all or part of the route), plus a mid-day turn from St P to Barnsley and return. Class 170.

The St P to York service was a weekends only affair, with an extension to Scarborough on summer Saturdays. This still runs on Saturdays only. Not sure about any Sunday services now.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I don't remember any regular fast services running between Sheffield and Barnsley until the Leeds - Nottingham route came in.

Could be wrong though.

Don't think there are 4tph to Barnsley, it's just the three.

theres definitely 4 tph from sheffield to barnsley now as i (until a month ago) lived in chapeltown and this was my local line, two stoppers (one to huddersfield one to leeds) and two semi fasts in between one which exended to nottingham.

I'm sure there's an extra one in evening peak southbound from leeds

 

[tbtc]

I only thought it was 2tph?

- 1 tph to Huddersfield via Barnsley and Penistone
- 1 tph to Leeds via Barnsley, Wakefield Kirkgate and Castleford

Which was the third? I didnt think there was a third until the Leeds-Wakefield K - Barnsley - Sheffield - Nottingham service started a few years back?

Midland Mainline (now EMT) used to have an evening service from London StP to Barnsley (via Sheffield) and a morning reverse, but this was removed a number of years ago along with the York extention

It used to be (pre 2004?):

Sheffield - Barnsley - Wakefield - Castleford - Leeds (all stops)
Sheffield - Barnsley - Wakefield (all stops)
Sheffield - Barnsley - Penistone - Huddersfield (all stops)

...each hour. Plus a couple of MML 170s (one of which gave a handy 08.40 arrival into Sheffield)

Then it became

Sheffield - Barnsley - Wakefield - Castleford - Leeds (all stops)
Sheffield - Barnsley - Wakefield Leeds (semi fast)
Sheffield - Barnsley - Penistone - Huddersfield (all stops apart from Elsecar offpeak)

Then it became

Sheffield - Barnsley - Wakefield - Castleford - Leeds (all stops)
Sheffield - Barnsley - Wakefield Leeds (semi fast)
Nottingham - Sheffield - Barnsley - Wakefield Leeds (semi fast)
Sheffield - Barnsley - Penistone - Huddersfield (all stops apart from Elsecar offpeak)

The need to stop at local stations, plus capacity problems between Sheffield and Meadowhall mean I can't see space for a fifth service on the line (unless the Penistone service is replaced by a shuttle to Barnsley, or the Castleford service is replaced by a Leeds - Castleford (Pontefract) service and a Castleford - Wakefield service?

The only other suggestion I have is to use some of the EMT trains from Neville Hill that run "light" to Sheffield in the morning to provide additional capacity from Barnsley to Sheffield (I worked these out on another thread, there are a couple arriving in Sheffield in the morning rush hour)

 

[bradders1983]

I

The only other suggestion I have is to use some of the EMT trains from Neville Hill that run "light" to Sheffield in the morning to provide additional capacity from Barnsley to Sheffield (I worked these out on another thread, there are a couple arriving in Sheffield in the morning rush hour)

Which route do these currently use from Leeds? Dearne Valley Line (via Goldthorpe)?

Why do these currently run light from Leeds to Sheffield anyway? Seems a waste IMO.

 

[yorksrob]

If these are the EMT HST's, then they do actually carry passengers between Leeds and Sheffield ( I often use these as they call at Wakefield Westgate). However it's the Dearne Valley rather than Barnsley at the mo.

 

[tbtc]

Which route do these currently use from Leeds? Dearne Valley Line (via Goldthorpe)?

Why do these currently run light from Leeds to Sheffield anyway? Seems a waste IMO.

EMT have nothing overnight in Sheffield; it all comes from Leeds or Derby. Some services run "in service", but many are empty. Whilst there may not be much demand from Leeds/Derby at that time in the morning to get to Sheffield, there will be demand from Barnsley or Chesterfield.

I posted a bit about it here:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36184&page=2

To put this into context, EMT have morning services from the south arriving in Sheffield (before nine) at:

0713 (ex Derby)
0800 (ex Derby)
0855 (ex London)

Departures from Sheffield (before nine) going south are at:

05.27
05.56
06.27 (ex Leeds, via Donny)
06.47
07.27 (the 07.13 arrival from the south?)
07.32 (ex Leeds, doesn't serve Doncaster)
07.41
08.27 (the 08.00 arrival from the south?)
08.47

So, unless the 08.00 arrival from Derby is a double unit (?) that means you have a train running ECS into Sheffield during the morning rush hour which could be deployed on a peaktime working from Doncaster/ Rotherham/ Barnsley. Okay, not all are served by EMT, but in an ideal world...

There must be similar empty movements into Liverpool/ Manchester etc before they become long distance services.

...so the unit that forms the 08.47 arrives in Sheffield empty in the middle of the morning rush hour? Bonkers (unless it's a double Meridian that arrives as the 08.00 arrival from the south)...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If these are the EMT HST's, then they do actually carry passengers between Leeds and Sheffield ( I often use these as they call at Wakefield Westgate). However it's the Dearne Valley rather than Barnsley at the mo.

I used it a few times when I lived in Leeds (in Midland Mainline days); they were pretty empty, but they were non-stop from Wakefield Westgate to Sheffield.

There's few people from Leeds/Wakefield who work in Sheffield, but there would be a lot of people who'd use it if it stopped in Doncaster or Barnsley (plus it would allow a "saved" Pacer/Sprinter to double up). It wouldn't need to stop at all local stations

 

[bradders1983]

Just read the linked thread above - all interesting stuff.

However running these EMT sets via Barnsley would require a modicum of common sence which is obviously lacking.

Are HST sets allowed to use the line north of Barnsley to Wakefield K via Darton though?

P.s. Wish i had found this forum sooner!

 

[tbtc]

Just read the linked thread above - all interesting stuff.

However running these EMT sets via Barnsley would require a modicum of common sence which is obviously lacking.

Are HST sets allowed to use the line north of Barnsley to Wakefield K via Darton though?

P.s. Wish i had found this forum sooner!

I *think* HSTs and Voyagers have run via Barnsley in the past as a diversion, I could be wrong though.

One problem with the railways at the moment is that each TOC is only interested in running *their* services. EMT exist to serve the East Midlands, and link that area to London, so they don't care about additional peak hour capacity between Barnsley and Sheffield, that's not their remit. I'm not blaming EMT here, just stating that giving each TOC one thing to focus on means we lose scope to make improvements elsewhere.

For example, Intercity TOCs don't need all their HSTs at the weekend; these could be used by Cross Country (or on services to Blackpool/ Skegness etc). Okay, EMT *do* run their High Speed trains to Scarborough and Skegness on some weekends, but what if other improvements could be made?

 

[yorksrob]

I used it a few times when I lived in Leeds (in Midland Mainline days); they were pretty empty, but they were non-stop from Wakefield Westgate to Sheffield.

There's few people from Leeds/Wakefield who work in Sheffield, but there would be a lot of people who'd use it if it stopped in Doncaster or Barnsley (plus it would allow a "saved" Pacer/Sprinter to double up). It wouldn't need to stop at all local stations

Yes, I can remember it going via Doncaster a few times. Always been plenty of room on them so extra stops would be a good idea IMO.

 

[YorkshireBear]

i have seen hst's and voyagers on diversions many times

 

[Tomnick]

I'm sure not all of the (EMT) ECS workings into Sheffield during the peak come from Leeds:

The 0713, 0800 and 0855 arrivals from the south are all booked Meridians (according to the public timetable).

Departures south are:

05.27 (HST)
05.56 (HST)
06.27 (HST ex Leeds)
06.47 (Meridian, so ECS ex-Derby)
07.27 (Meridian, presumably ECS ex-Derby given the short turnaround off the 0713 arrival)
07.32 (HST ex Leeds)
07.41 (HST, so most likely ECS ex-Leeds)
08.27 (Meridian, formed out of something from the south)
08.47 (Meridian, formed out of something from the south)

So there's (probably) an ECS working from Leeds sometime around 0730, but then nothing arriving empty from that direction after that, into the busiest part of the peak. Whether there's an empty 222 to form the 0847, I don't know - but that'd come empty from Derby (even if there was demand for an additional peak service, it might not be practical to platform it at Derby to form an additional passenger service to Sheffield anyway).

HSTs can certainly go via Barnsley, and I'm sure that they still do so occasionally when the other routes are blocked - early morning and late evening.

 

[tbtc]

Whether there's an empty 222 to form the 0847, I don't know - but that'd come empty from Derby (even if there was demand for an additional peak service, it might not be practical to platform it at Derby to form an additional passenger service to Sheffield anyway)

It could still stop at Chesterfield and Dronfield (if Voyagers used to serve Dronfield then I'm sure a Meridian could too) and be much needed peak capacity into Sheffield