Hazard Lights

[edwin_m]

In recent years it has become the custom for a bus driver making a longer than normal stop to turn on the hazard lights. This makes good sense as it prevents a following bus pulling up six inches behind and then being trapped.

However, especially when a following bus has pulled up a bit further away, the left indicators of the front bus are no longer visible and it looks as if it is indicating to pull out, to the possible confusion of passing traffic.

Is there an alternative to using hazard lights in this situation, for example turning off the left indicator? Or could the rules and circuits be changed so that the hazard light switch flashed the indicators at, say, twice the frequency of the indicator switch?

 

[quarella]

The double flashing speed on some vehicles indicates a fault such as broken bulb. Can't find my highway code at the moment but where does it go from stopping for passengers to alight/board to parking?

 

[lightning76]

I don't think it is necessary for additional indications to be introduced to explain what stationary buses may or may not be doing.

From the point of view of the passing traffic: If an offside indicator can be seen but not the nearside, it does not preclude the possibility that the nearside indicator may also be flashing. Therefore it would be advisable to proceed with caution until it can be ascertained what indication is being made and what manoeuvre, if any, is intended, which should in any case be the guiding principle when driving in general.

In reality the passing traffic is likely to continue on its merry way until the bus starts to pull away under the maneouvre-indicate-mirror system. Oh, and neither another bus nor any other vehicle should approach so close to a preceding vehicle to prevent passing that vehicle should the need arise.

 

[edwin_m]

I don't think it is necessary for additional indications to be introduced to explain what stationary buses may or may not be doing.

From the point of view of the passing traffic: If an offside indicator can be seen but not the nearside, it does not preclude the possibility that the nearside indicator may also be flashing. Therefore it would be advisable to proceed with caution until it can be ascertained what indication is being made and what manoeuvre, if any, is intended, which should in any case be the guiding principle when driving in general.

In reality the passing traffic is likely to continue on its merry way until the bus starts to pull away under the maneouvre-indicate-mirror system. Oh, and neither another bus nor any other vehicle should approach so close to a preceding vehicle to prevent passing that vehicle should the need arise.

Drivers of other vehicles are supposed to let buses pull out, so will tend to hang back and delay other traffic if they thing the bus is about to do so when it isn't. Once this has happened a few times to a driver the opposite may apply, that the driver assumes the bus is just sitting on hazards when it is actually trying to pull out. This will delay the bus and in the worst case could cause an accident, for example if the other driver starts to hang back but changes their mind and carries on.

 

[90019]

Or could the rules and circuits be changed so that the hazard light switch flashed the indicators at, say, twice the frequency of the indicator switch?

The problem with that is it requires you to know beforehand the speed at which the indicators flash normally, which varies between buses (especially if it's an ADL bus). If you don't know the rate at which the indicators flash normally, it renders the point of the more frequent flash somewhat moot.

Drivers of other vehicles are supposed to let buses pull out, so will tend to hang back and delay other traffic if they thing the bus is about to do so when it isn't. Once this has happened a few times to a driver the opposite may apply, that the driver assumes the bus is just sitting on hazards when it is actually trying to pull out. This will delay the bus and in the worst case could cause an accident, for example if the other driver starts to hang back but changes their mind and carries on.

In theory you're supposed to let buses out, but plenty of people don't, so we're pretty used to it as it's a situation we have to deal with usually many times a day.
To be honest, most other road users are relatively predictable (cyclists being the notable exception), and if you're not sure what someone else is doing, there's no harm in holding back or pausing until you can be more certain about their intentions.


Basically, we're professional drivers spending a large part of our working day on the road; we're used to this sort of thing.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I drive in London a lot, and to be honest, I've never had this problem. It's usually pretty obvious whether a bus is trying to pull out or stationary. If buses aren't leaving enough space between each other to get out, then that's their problem.

 

[carriageline]

I drive in London a lot, and to be honest, I've never had this problem. It's usually pretty obvious whether a bus is trying to pull out or stationary. If buses aren't leaving enough space between each other to get out, then that's their problem.

Yeah, it's normally obvious if they are trying to pull out in London as they just pull out the second the indicator is on


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[Tetchytyke]

Yeah, it's normally obvious if they are trying to pull out in London as they just pull out the second the indicator is on

I always thought indicators were an optional extra on London buses

 

[quarella]

The problem with that is it requires you to know beforehand the speed at which the indicators flash normally, which varies between buses (especially if it's an ADL bus). If you don't know the rate at which the indicators flash normally, it renders the point of the more frequent flash somewhat moot.

There are legal parameters to the flash rate.

 

[90019]

There are legal parameters to the flash rate.

Yes, but that doesn't preclude different rates - it's parameters, not a single set rate.

 

[edwin_m]

Perhaps now most new vehicles have LEDs and digital control, it's time for a change to the rules on hazard lights? I'm thinking of some construction vehicles that have yellow lights which do four or five quick flashes then off for half a second or so, and repeat.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Perhaps now most new vehicles have LEDs and digital control, it's time for a change to the rules on hazard lights? I'm thinking of some construction vehicles that have yellow lights which do four or five quick flashes then off for half a second or so, and repeat.

I think you're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Those flashing lights you refer to are warning beacons, not indicators.

 

[quarella]

I think you're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Those flashing lights you refer to are warning beacons, not indicators.

And trying to pick the indicator out amongst the multiple flashing orange lights on the back of construction vehicles and dustcarts can be an absolute nightmare.

 

[MotCO]

I'm inclined to agree with the OP; it is not always clear if a bus is parked or trying to pull out. In these days of LED lights, can the colours be alternated, for example flashing red then orange to denote a parked vehicle?

 

[quarella]

I'm inclined to agree with the OP; it is not always clear if a bus is parked or trying to pull out. In these days of LED lights, can the colours be alternated, for example flashing red then orange to denote a parked vehicle?

A red flashing LED and it will be easily confused with a bicycle.

 

[Robertj21a]

A solution looking for a non-existant problem ?

 

[455driver]

A solution looking for a non-existant problem ?

A bit like a tram train or a Parry people mover then!

 

[edwin_m]

And trying to pick the indicator out amongst the multiple flashing orange lights on the back of construction vehicles and dustcarts can be an absolute nightmare.

This would be the indicator itself flashing in a different mode, so the two would never happen at the same time.

The original idea was put to me by someone who is a frequent cyclist in London and felt it was unfair to have to slow down for buses that didn't actually pull out.

 

[Hophead]

I'm inclined to agree with the OP; it is not always clear if a bus is parked or trying to pull out. In these days of LED lights, can the colours be alternated, for example flashing red then orange to denote a parked vehicle?

In these days of LED blinds, it would surely be simple enough to post a suitable message, assuming anybody was sufficiently bothered?

 

[MotCO]

Quote: "In these days of LED blinds, it would surely be simple enough to post a suitable message, assuming anybody was sufficiently bothered?"

But the whole point is that you would not see the blind, only the offside indicators, since there is another bus behind it!

 

[bravot]

Lamps on vehicles are strictly controlled by law.

Nothing is allowed to flash barring the indicators/hazard lights which must blink steadily within a specified range.

There are also restrictions on what colour lamp can be displayed from where.

This is of course excludes warning beacons on a relevant vehicle, ABS indications etc.

 

[dtaylor84]

A red flashing LED and it will be easily confused with a bicycle.

If you can confuse a bus for a bicycle, regardless of the lights it is displaying, you probably shouldn't be on the roads!

 

[quarella]

If you can confuse a bus for a bicycle, regardless of the lights it is displaying, you probably shouldn't be on the roads!

Assuming it is a bus when in amongst the disco going on there may be a cycle could be deadly.

 

[BestWestern]

I don't think it is necessary for additional indications to be introduced to explain what stationary buses may or may not be doing.

Oh, and neither another bus nor any other vehicle should approach so close to a preceding vehicle to prevent passing that vehicle should the need arise.

I agree entirely with your first point. As for the second, in theory yes, but in reality there is often little choice but to pull up tight behind a preceeding vehicle when negotiating tight city centre bus stops and the like. Keep in mind that a bus has a very substantial rear overhang, and an attempt at pulling out and passing another stationary bus ahead requires leaving a substantial gap to avoid turning out too tightly and demolishing street furniture. This is space which quite often simply doesn't exist. If the only other option is to sit in the middle of the road awaiting the other vehicle's departure, it is often more sensible simply to commit yourself and squeeze in. Also consider that most mainstream operators now enforce rather strict rulings that drivers must open their doors only at a bus stop, on pain of tea no biscuits - 30 feet away is far enough if somebody decides to trip up the kerb because you let them get off there.

 

[ECML180]

A red flashing LED and it will be easily confused with a bicycle.

Excellent now I can drive my bus through red lights and no-one can stop me!

 

[83G/84D]

On a similar topic quite a few buses around the country drive around with headlights on regardless of time of day or night, lighting or weather conditions. Is there a reason for this and is it company policy for some bus companies or driver discretion?

 

[90019]

On a similar topic quite a few buses around the country drive around with headlights on regardless of time of day or night, lighting or weather conditions. Is there a reason for this and is it company policy for some bus companies or driver discretion?

Headlights or running lights?

I do sometimes drive with my headlights on during the day, though not always. Just whenever I feel like it, basically.

 

[Antman]

I always thought indicators were an optional extra on London buses

No that's taxis
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Certainly when I was bus driving I'd put the hazards on if I was going to be at a stop for a while and it never caused a problem

 

[ECML180]

On a similar topic quite a few buses around the country drive around with headlights on regardless of time of day or night, lighting or weather conditions. Is there a reason for this and is it company policy for some bus companies or driver discretion?

2 reasons AFAIK and one is derived from the other:

1. [Running] Lights are wired to come on with the ignition (because...)
2. Even in ideal conditions headlights improve visibility

I believe that a study showed that the increased running cost associated with the extra lighting was more than balanced from the saving from accident repairs.

 

[carriageline]

To be honest, I'm in the habit of driving with my lights on if I'm making any journey (within reason of course), and I must say people do seem to notice you more at junctions and roundabouts (I haven't been pulled out on in a while!) *toucheswood*

I do admit, sometimes if my attention is lacking it is easy to miss a car in the distance with no lights on, but if it's lights are on you notice it a lot quicker and easier.

99% of my Journeys are 80 or so minutes long and involve motorways and dual carriageways so I'm quite happy to do that. Modern cars and DRLs seem to have created a new breed of problems. Recently on the motorway in foggy and very wet situations, I have seen a rise in very new cars with no lights on at the rear, and they have all been the type with fancy bright LED DRLs. I don't know if the cabins on these cars are substantially brighter, but I can't believe people drive around in poor conditions with just DRLs on.

This leaves the rear completely unlit (until they turn the headlights on), which startled me on a foggy motorway which made a car completely appear out of no where.


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