Holding trains in Germany, and the knock-on effects

[toxicjames]

When trains in Germany are running late (and despite the stereotype I'm sure you'll be aware this does happen) it is common for connecting long-distance services to be held in order that passengers may still make their connections.

While this is a blessing for those passengers, if left unchecked the domino effect of holding trains in this way would surely cause the timetable to be thrown out of the window by the end of service! So my question is, how is this effect compensated for? Is there slack built into the timetable for this, for example, or will trains be permitted to reduce dwell times further along the route, perhaps even break line speed to make up lost time?

Secondary question: should Deutsche Bahn stop building eight-minute connection times into itineraries to reduce the damage caused by minor delays?

And tertiary question: the practice of holding trains seems less common in the UK if it happens at all. If this is indeed the case, is it because of a specific policy, the fact that individual train companies are only interested in keeping their own services to time, or the physical layout of our rail network?

 

[87015]

Firstly - don't look at DB these days, SBB is where the real quality is. OBB I've also found very good for timekeeping, but the Sectorisation/Balkanisation of DB has really come home to roost.

Generally they have more turnaround time (often only at one end of the route) and slightly more en-route standing time on some routes, plus they are not afraid to drive hard to make up time (within speed limits) rather than the ultra-defensive driving which occurs over here.

In the UK, each TOC has its own connectional policy and can put whatever it wants in there, to hold or not to hold. If the hold on a connecting train is within the policy then delay minutes attributed to that late start will go down to the root cause of the delay and not be a seperate delay causation.

 

[radamfi]

Swiss trains, whilst very punctual, do have a fair amount of waiting time at main stations en route. Of course, this is for a good reason as almost any journey you could want to make can be made without excessively long connection times as we have in the UK.

Dutch trains are not as punctual, but they attempt to maintain a Swiss-style connecting network without long dwell times. So there seems to be less room for error, which might explain why this policy is abandoned in times of disruption.

 

[33056]

When trains in Germany are running late (and despite the stereotype I'm sure you'll be aware this does happen) it is common for connecting long-distance services to be held in order that passengers may still make their connections.

My recent experiences are that they don't appear to hold connections for very long, if at all these days and timekeeping over there is not really that good at all compared to even a few years ago.

This site is worth a browse for German train running information.

 

[Oscar]

Deutsche Bahn punctuality statistics can be found here and in my opinion the situation is broadly comparable to that in the UK, and possibly a little better for local services. Technical faults seem to be responsibility for a lot of the delays. RE and RB trains wait a few minutes for connections but I doubt IC/EC/ICE/ICE Sprinter trains would generally wait for connections and there are regularly delays of 10-30 minutes on these services.

SBB trains wait for each other up to a given limit which is different for every service but is most commonly 3 minutes. The Swiss run the highest number of passenger trains in the world over the length of track they have. There are therefore a lot of knock-on delays due to capacity constraints around major hubs and due to the fact that most of the secondary network is only single track. A combination of these operational constraints and waiting for connections mean that a lot of SBB services run up to 5 minutes late due to knock-on delays. Longer delays, however, are fairly rare and are usually dealt with by running a replacement train on time in the path of the original train and possibly terminating the original train. The intensity of use of the Swiss railway system means that running trains 20 minutes late is often simply unworkable.

 

[Paul Kelly]

German IC trains do sometimes wait for connections, as the OP said. Up to 10 minutes in my experience (that was an IC connection waiting on a delayed ICE). They are very good with the information on connections when a train is late; and you can hear something like "This train is waiting for us" when one is being held.

 

[radamfi]

I think a good rule of thumb is that your train is likely to wait if it is waiting for a train of equal or higher class.

 

[WestCoast]

I think a good rule of thumb is that your train is likely to wait if it is waiting for a train of equal or higher class.

Yes, which is entirely sensible IMO. The Swiss run a very different kind of network, shorter distances and more intensive services.

 

[Golghar]

In the "good old days" of the Deutsche Bundesbahn (i.e. pre 1994) there used to be a rule that trains waited 5 minutes for a delayed train of a lower category, 10 mins. for one of the same category and 15 mins. for one of a higher category. The categories were, in descending order, IC/D=IR/E/N. S-Bahn trains were not included in this system, i.e. they didn't wait and weren't waited for. This was printed in all timetables so it was in a way guaranteed and you knew what to expect.
Nowadays this is an ad hoc affair. If there is a following train within an hour then the connecting train often does not wait. The last train of the day usually does.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

The only Time ive ever seen a Train held in the uk including last trains of the day was by Abelio for a connecting train at Manningtree heading to Harwich this was because our 90 set had been delayed in London area due to a fatality or so we where told. i didnt ask if it was a train or a one under.

 

[Ploughman]

Back in the 70s my father was on a conference in Trier.
On the way back the train to the Hook of Holland was delayed due to a missing / sick Guard.
This held the Ship.
This delayed the Boat Train from Harwich to London.
This delayed the Euston - Liverpool.
Which delayed the Liverpool - Southport.

I presume due to the amount of delegates using the ship I would have thought that other routes around the country would also have been affected, such as ECML and Western. I think eventually 5 people were on the Liverpool - Southport.

 

[317666]

I find that more often than not, if the Ffestiniog Railway train from Porthmadog is late then the Conwy Valley service will wait for it at Blaenau Ffestiniog. This is because Conwy Valley trains are only every three hours I would imagine.

I've noticed that it tends to be German ICs/ECs that are the worst for punctuality over there, and that isn't surprising considering the long routes that they operate. Many of them take all day end-to-end, and that's when they're on time!

 

[gordonthemoron]

I've been on a DB ICE3 between Frankfurt and Cologne which was v.late, the driver got it up to 329km/h (according to the intrain displays). That's 29km/h faster than the line speed and 9km/h faster than they're supposed to run (although their top speed is 330km/h)

 

[D1009]

In my experience the difference between German and UK practice is that there is communication between the control and the train in the event of delay, and the Train Manager is advised which (if any) connections will be held, and then accordingly announces the next services to connecting destinations including track numbers. Years ago the announcements were made directly from the control centre, but the sound quality was so poor they gave up the idea.

As regards the Koln Frankfurt high speed line it was my understanding that up to 330 km/h can be authorised for trains capable of that speed in the event of late running.