Hook to London Zone 6 to Marlyebone

[robertbishop]

Hi,

I'm trying to take advantage of the cheap Chiltern Railways fares between London and Birmingham this summer. That bit is easy, but getting to London is difficult. I want to get to London, on one day in the evening, go to Uxbridge (Zone 6), then the next day go to Marylebone to get the 08:20 train to Birmingham. Coming back I want to go straight back home, after arriving at Marylebone 18:00.

If I wasn't going to need a travelcard it would be a simple open return to U1 or the station north of Marylebone, Wembley Stadium which is a bit cheaper. The only way I think I can do this is get An Anytime single from Hook to Zone 1256, then an Off-Peak single back from Zone 1256 to Hook.

Hmm.

No rush though, not like its tomorrow.

Thanks in advance!

Robert

 

[bb21]

I think it will be cheaper to split at Surbiton if you have Oyster.

Hook - London Zone U1256
Anytime Day Single
Route Any Permitted
£22.80

Hook - Surbiton
Anytime Day Single
Route Not London
£11.60

The default Oyster PAYG fare between Surbiton and Uxbridge is £4.40 off-peak via Zone 1. You may also avoid Zone 1 by changing at, for example, Clapham Junction and West Hampstead for £2.20 single.

Edit: It appears that I was wrong. The default PAYG fare is not via Zone 1, ie. £2.20 off-peak single.

 

[yorkie]

I'm a bit confused.

You already have a cheap ticket from London Terminals to Birmingham Stations? Presumably Chiltern Only advance?

And you want to buy tickets that will let you go from Hook to Uxbridge on day 1, and then Uxbridge to Marylebone on day 2, and then Marylebone to Hook on the return?

I can't work out where the requirement for a Travelcard fits into this?

You already have the London-Brum ticket, right? Because there are Route High Wycombe tickets available between Hook and intermediate stations along the route to London, and Birmingham. If you already have a ticket from London-Brum I will ignore those.

 

[sonic2009]

Is your date of intended travel to Brum on a Mon-Fri or Saturday?

I would of thought a Hook to U1256 off peak return.

 

[yorkie]

I think it will be cheaper to split at Surbiton if you have Oyster.

Yes, that does seem highly likely, providing further travel in London isn't required, but I am confused as the OP says "If I wasn't going to need a travelcard..."
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The only way I think I can do this is get An Anytime single from Hook to Zone 1256, then an Off-Peak single back from Zone 1256 to Hook.

Hook [HOK] to ZONE U1256 LONDN [0786] Anytime Day Sgl £22.80
ZONE U1256 LONDN [0786] to Hook [HOK] Off Peak Day Sgl £22.80

Not a good ticket to buy! In fact, for under a tenner less you can get all the way to Birmingham! (OK without the Uxbridge bit).

Is your date of intended travel to Brum on a Mon-Fri or Saturday?

I would of thought a Hook to U1256 off peak return.

That's £35.90.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Hook to Clapham Jn Off Peak Rtn is £25.80

It's cheaper to get 2 x singles Hook - Surbiton @ £11.60 + £10.60, but obviously that means you have to touch in at Surbiton instead of Clapham, which could cause a time penalty to the journey.

 

[bb21]

Hook to Clapham Jn Off Peak Rtn is £25.80

It's cheaper to get 2 x singles Hook - Surbiton @ £11.60 + £10.60, but obviously that means you have to touch in at Surbiton instead of Clapham, which could cause a time penalty to the journey.

I think that the half-hourly service from Hook calls at Surbiton en route to Waterloo anyway, and services from Surbiton are frequent enough for there not to be a significant time penalty.

 

[robertbishop]

I'm confused also. Disregard the travlecard bit, I got mixed up between a ticket to a zone and a travelcard.

I have not got the Chiltern tickets yet, and I assume they are London Terminals-Birmingham Moor Street. I can check if necessary, but that bit is fine. If it is cheaper for a through ticket from Hook to B'ham, then good.

If this was one day only, i.e go up to London early and back on the same day evening, I would buy a Hook-London 1256 Off Peak return. The problem I see is that I am travelling over two days, but is this fine? I would think that that ticket would onlt be valid on one day, and a more expensive 'open return' would be necessary.

By the way, I don't know the difference between that and a Hook-London Travlecard ticket, but I see now that there is a difference.

I have an oyster card, but I am confused about how I can "touch out", how do I touch out when I am not wanting to leave the station? But if I can, then that sounds ok, as most of the trains from Hook stop at Surbiton.

Thanks all for your help, you expertise is unrivalled by any other forum I've been on.

Robert

 

[sonic2009]

Well a Hook - Birmingham STNS Route High Wycombe Saver Rtn is £53.00 this allows a break of journey on the outward portion, as long as the journey is completed before 12pm the following day.

 

[yorkie]

Well a Hook - Birmingham STNS Route High Wycombe Saver Rtn is £53.00 this allows a break of journey on the outward portion, as long as the journey is completed before 12pm the following day.

Yes, this is true. The journey could be broken at Marylebone, or perhaps at West Ruislip. The U10 and U1 bus routes go to Uxbridge, from there. (You can also walk to Ickenham but it's a fairly long walk and a bus will be cheaper than the Met).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have not got the Chiltern tickets yet, and I assume they are London Terminals-Birmingham Moor Street. I can check if necessary, but that bit is fine. If it is cheaper for a through ticket from Hook to B'ham, then good.

It might be. I don't know when you are travelling or what price you have been quoted.

If this was one day only, i.e go up to London early and back on the same day evening, I would buy a Hook-London 1256 Off Peak return. The problem I see is that I am travelling over two days, but is this fine? I would think that that ticket would onlt be valid on one day, and a more expensive 'open return' would be necessary.

The term "open return" is best avoided. It was a ticket type, and the codes are still used today (SOR/FOR) though Open has been re-branded Anytime. This is perhaps partly the fault of Thetrainline who used the term "open" to include any ticket that was not restricted to a specific train/itinerary.

By the way, I don't know the difference between that and a Hook-London Travlecard ticket, but I see now that there is a difference.

An out-boundary Travelcard (eg. one from Hook) is only available as a Day ticket, or a Season ticket.

I have an oyster card, but I am confused about how I can "touch out", how do I touch out when I am not wanting to leave the station? But if I can, then that sounds ok, as most of the trains from Hook stop at Surbiton.

I have only exited Surbiton once, that I can recall, so I may not be in the best position to advise. But it should be possible to simply touch out and let the barrier open but do not walk through. Obviously touching out at Surbiton refers to your return journey. On your outward journey, the same applies except you will need to lean over the barrier to touch in; it may be easier to exit using your paper ticket and then walk back in using your Oyster card.

 

[robertbishop]

It might be. I don't know when you are travelling or what price you have been quoted.

I can go from London Marylebone to Birmingham Moor Street for £3.30 up, and £4.95 back, with Y-P railcard.

The term "open return" is best avoided. It was a ticket type, and the codes are still used today (SOR/FOR) though Open has been re-branded Anytime. This is perhaps partly the fault of Thetrainline who used the term "open" to include any ticket that was not restricted to a specific train/itinerary.

Good to know, so is there a designation for a ticket which isn't a 'Day' ticket, or is there none?

An out-boundary Travelcard (eg. one from Hook) is only available as a Day ticket, or a Season ticket.

Thought so, thanks.

I have only exited Surbiton once, that I can recall, so I may not be in the best position to advise. But it should be possible to simply touch out and let the barrier open but do not walk through. Obviously touching out at Surbiton refers to your return journey. On your outward journey, the same applies except you will need to lean over the barrier to touch in; it may be easier to exit using your paper ticket and then walk back in using your Oyster card.

Sounds good. Will have to dig the Oyster card out. If I can find it I will do the Hook-Surbiton Off Peak return, but if not I should think that a Hook-London Zones 1256 Off Peak return will be fine - £23.70 (Y-P) for me I think.

Thanks again,

Robert
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well a Hook - Birmingham STNS Route High Wycombe Saver Rtn is £53.00 this allows a break of journey on the outward portion, as long as the journey is completed before 12pm the following day.

Thanks, but I can get a ticket to London and then use the cheap advance tickets for much less though.

 

[sonic2009]

Okay well you didn't explain you had a yp railcard as price I quoted is normal adult fare

 

[yorkie]

Sounds good. Will have to dig the Oyster card out. If I can find it I will do the Hook-Surbiton Off Peak return, but if not I should think that a Hook-London Zones 1256 Off Peak return will be fine - £23.70 (Y-P) for me I think.

£23.70 + £5.95 + £3.30 = £32.95 but you are restricted to certain trains on Chiltern as the fares you quote will be Advance fares. I don't agree that this is "much less" than the through fare of £35.00 although I admit that the £32.95 includes the cost of going to Uxbridge while the £35 fare wouldn't quite get you to Uxbridge*. But bear in mind with Advance tickets, it's a risk that if there are delays on the Met your Advance ticket may not be honoured for later trains, as I don't think a TfL Oyster single counts as a "combination of tickets for one journey" - though you could mitigate against that by specifying the origin of your Advance ticket as from Zone U1256 Londn, this pushes the £3.30 ticket up to £6.25.(BTW I'd avoid use of the word "up" where possible, as technically the Up direction is toward London, though I recognise the term "up" can also refer to uphill and also geographical routes, but it can cause confusion).


(* but on the other hand the £35 fare will get you back from Marylebone to Waterloo, otherwise with the combination you propose I think you may need to buy another ticket/use PAYG on your return to get from MYB to WAT.... unless you can break your LU journey at Marylebone Underground on a London U1256 Londn ticket, which I don't know if you can. perhaps someone with local knowledge can confirm?)

 

[robertbishop]

Thanks for the replies. The advance ticket is only for the London-B'ham leg, so I don't see how 'delays on the met' will affect that. It is true that I will have to get to Marylebone on time, but that is the same as using any advance ticket, as in playing it safe on times.

I see what you mean about the break of journey coming back from Marylebone. I think it should be OK as I'm not retracing any leg of the journey, just carrying on.

 

[yorkie]

Thanks for the replies. The advance ticket is only for the London-B'ham leg, so I don't see how 'delays on the met' will affect that.

A delay could cause you to miss the train.

It is true that I will have to get to Marylebone on time, but that is the same as using any advance ticket, as in playing it safe on times.

No, it isn't. As your first railway ticket originates at London Terminals, if you do not get to Marylebone on time then you are stuffed, I think.

I'd love to be proven wrong and to be told that Oyster PAYG counts as part of a "combination of tickets" for this purpose though! Can anyone do this?

I see what you mean about the break of journey coming back from Marylebone. I think it should be OK as I'm not retracing any leg of the journey, just carrying on.

I'm not sure if you can resume such a ticket on LU though, I will try to find out. If it is treated the same as a cross-London transfer the answer would be "no". If it is treated as a ticket from any station up to Zone 6 to London, then an optional cross-London transfer, and then on from London to Hook, then it would be okay.

 

[robertbishop]

A delay could cause you to miss the train.

No, it isn't. As your first railway ticket originates at London Terminals, if you do not get to Marylebone on time then you are stuffed, I think.

Yes, of course, I see what you mean now.

I'd love to be proven wrong and to be told that Oyster PAYG counts as part of a "combination of tickets" for this purpose though! Can anyone do this?

I'm not sure what a "combination of tickets" in this context entails, but if it is restricting than yes, it would be good to know.

I'm not sure if you can resume such a ticket on LU though, I will try to find out. If it is treated the same as a cross-London transfer the answer would be "no". If it is treated as a ticket from any station up to Zone 6 to London, then an optional cross-London transfer, and then on from London to Hook, then it would be okay.

I would've thought that the ticket is like any other off peak ticket, and stopping and resuming your journey, in other words 'breaking your journey' should be ok. However, if cross London transfers and tickets into zones are treated differently, then I'd like to know.

 

[yorkie]

I'm not sure what a "combination of tickets" in this context entails, but if it is restricting than yes, it would be good to know.

Well, you may use a combination of tickets for one journey. If, for example, I hold a Harrogate to York ticket, and a York to London Advance, then EC will honour the Advance ticket from York in the event of the Harrogate train being delayed. This policy has been confirmed by both EC and ATOC and if any guard charged me, I'd not pay a penny and would relax in the knowledge that the guard would be in trouble for that, and that I would not be prosecuted for refusing to pay. In other words, I could relax in the knowledge that I was right!

However if I get a bus ticket, and a York to London Advance, EC will not honour the train from York if the bus is late (well, in fact, they possibly will if I ask a nice member of staff politely at York station to endorse it before I board, they are not obliged to though) so if I board the train at York with no such endorsement I cannot relax in the knowledge that I cannot be charged! The guard is entitled to charge me for a new ticket.

If you get a ticket from ZONE U1256 LONDON to BIRMINGHAM, you are covered in the event of delays on LU.

If you use Oyster PAYG to get to London, and then a LONDON to BIRMINGHAM, you could argue that you are covered because you hold a "combination of tickets" - but are you? Does PAYG on TfL count as a "ticket" for this purpose? It's on dodgy ground, so would I risk it? The answer is no, I would not risk it if I could possibly help it!

I would've thought that the ticket is like any other off peak ticket, and stopping and resuming your journey, in other words 'breaking your journey' should be ok. However, if cross London transfers and tickets into zones are treated differently, then I'd like to know.

Yes, but TfL do not allow break of journey (BOJ).

The question is: Is this a ticket from any TfL station to the relevant London terminal (eg, Waterloo, or Victoria) and then on to Hook.... or is it a ticket from any TfL station to any London terminal, on top of a cross-London transfer to another TfL station, if it is the latter you could argue that BOJ is permitted between the point at which you finish your TfL to London journey and before you commence your cross-London transfer.

I don't know the answer to that. I will try to find out.