How could Middlewich be served if the station was to reopen?

[Philip]

If passenger services were brought back to the 'Middlewich branch' between Sandbach and Northwich with the reopening of Middlewich Station, what would be the best way to incorporate the new service into the existing timetable and which TOC should run it?

 

[Elecman]

Almost certainl6 Northern if it was to happen

 

[RT4038]

How about a shuttle from Sandbach to Northwich, three round trips in the morning and three on the afternoon? Operated by Northern using a 230 on battery power. Recharged at night, and during the day in between the three round trips.

 

[Efini92]

Reopen the south facing bay at Stockport and have Stockport-Sandbach via Northwich.

 

[The Planner]

Reopen the south facing bay at Stockport and have Stockport-Sandbach via Northwich.

Say goodbye to Middlewich ever opening if that is a solution.

 

[Efini92]

Say goodbye to Middlewich ever opening if that is a solution.

Do you think it could get a path into Piccadilly or Crewe?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

How about a shuttle from Sandbach to Northwich, three round trips in the morning and three on the afternoon? Operated by Northern using a 230 on battery power. Recharged at night, and during the day in between the three round trips.

You want a regular service otherwise there is no point. So preferably hourly.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Northern were supposed to be changing Manchester-Altrincham-Chester to have a semi fast Manchester-Chester and a stopper Manchester-Northwich, why not extend the Northwich terminator to Crewe via Middlewich?

 

[py_megapixel]

How about a shuttle from Sandbach to Northwich, three round trips in the morning and three on the afternoon? Operated by Northern using a 230 on battery power. Recharged at night, and during the day in between the three round trips.

That would be what, 1 train per 3 hours? Hardly worth opening a new station for a service that poor, I'd have thought

Northern were supposed to be changing Manchester-Altrincham-Chester to have a semi fast Manchester-Chester and a stopper Manchester-Northwich, why not extend the Northwich terminator to Crewe via Middlewich?

I thought that idea had been abandoned because of insufficient capacity between Manchester and Stockport.

 

[RT4038]

You want a regular service otherwise there is no point. So preferably hourly.

That would be what, 1 train per 3 hours? Hardly worth opening a new station for a service that poor, I'd have thought

That exactly is the point! I was thinking of an hourly service for 3 hours in the morning, nothing for about 6 hours, and then an hourly service for three hours.

With elsewhere in the Forum it being mentioned that Northern are reducing services (apparently due to the large losses that they make), why would they want to be adding another loss making provincial rail service to their portfolio. There is only really a chance of any decent load of pax at the 'peak' periods, so why not only run then with a cheap 230 unit. Ideal.

 

[PTR 444]

I’d keep it simple to begin with. Run an all-day hourly shuttle between Crewe and Northwich calling at Sandbach and Middlewich.

In the future however if the line gets electrified and passenger numbers recover, perhaps it could become an extension of the LNWR London - Crewe service.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

That exactly is the point! I was thinking of an hourly service for 3 hours in the morning, nothing for about 6 hours, and then an hourly service for three hours.

With elsewhere in the Forum it being mentioned that Northern are reducing services (apparently due to the large losses that they make), why would they want to be adding another loss making provincial rail service to their portfolio. There is only really a chance of any decent load of pax at the 'peak' periods, so why not only run then with a cheap 230 unit. Ideal.

No no we need a service all day

 

[lachlan]

I’d keep it simple to begin with. Run an all-day hourly shuttle between Crewe and Northwich calling at Sandbach and Middlewich.

In the future however if the line gets electrified and passenger numbers recover, perhaps it could become an extension of the LNWR London - Crewe service.

This is the minimum service level that I would think would be worthwhile. Looking at Google Maps there's already an hourly bus that's reasonably quick to Sandbach and Northwhich, and with better connectivity. Whereas the train could be quite a bit quicker than the bus to Crewe.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I’d keep it simple to begin with. Run an all-day hourly shuttle between Crewe and Northwich calling at Sandbach and Middlewich.

In the future however if the line gets electrified and passenger numbers recover, perhaps it could become an extension of the LNWR London - Crewe service.

I’d agree with that

 

[bluenoxid]

There is also a second bus route which is hourly ish between Middlewich and Crewe via the A530.

 

[The Planner]

Do you think it could get a path into Piccadilly or Crewe?

Why would it be a new service into Picc? Crewe would likely work.

 

[6Gman]

That exactly is the point! I was thinking of an hourly service for 3 hours in the morning, nothing for about 6 hours, and then an hourly service for three hours.

With elsewhere in the Forum it being mentioned that Northern are reducing services (apparently due to the large losses that they make), why would they want to be adding another loss making provincial rail service to their portfolio. There is only really a chance of any decent load of pax at the 'peak' periods, so why not only run then with a cheap 230 unit. Ideal.

But it's not up to Northern. It's up to the DfT. If they are prepared to fund it the operator will run it.

If capacity can be found at Stockport and into Manchester there's a clear desire and demand to step up the service to Knutsford and Northwich to twice per hour; the second could then be extended to Crewe via Middlewich (though capacity into Crewe may be challenging especially for a platform).

But I suspect none of this is likely pre HS2.

(And note how many "ifs" there are.)

 

[RT4038]

But it's not up to Northern. It's up to the DfT. If they are prepared to fund it the operator will run it.

As is presumably the case with the cuts elsewhere on the Northern network? Is there a clear desire from DfT for this service? Why would the DfT want to fund more loss making service? I think Middlewich will be waiting quite a while for a train.

 

[northwichcat]

Why would the DfT want to fund more loss making service?

How do you know it'll make a loss or which lines currently make a loss? I'm well aware we have profitable franchises and loss making franchises but that doesn't mean every route in the franchise performs as well or as badly as each other.

 

[Watershed]

Do you think it could get a path into Piccadilly or Crewe?

Certainly into Crewe and possibly into Piccadilly. There are still services that are missing compared to pre-Covid so - in theory - there should be sufficient capacity for an additional tph. In the worst case scenario, the train might have to turn around at Altrincham at peak times.

The MRTF consultation did propose the TfW service being rerouted via Northwich. No indicative timings were given AFAIK, but I would certainly take that as a plausible option.

 

[Philip]

Perhaps TfW could run the service as a portion working between Crewe and Northwich, to join/split from the Manchester to North Wales service at Northwich once this starts running via Knutsford?

Is there a lot of demand for a direct rail link between Middlewich and Manchester?

 

[The Planner]

Perhaps TfW could run the service as a portion working between Crewe and Northwich, to join/split from the Manchester to North Wales service at Northwich once this starts running via Knutsford?

Is there a lot of demand for a direct rail link between Middlewich and Manchester?

Just adds performance risk and you would have to split and join on the down and up goods and reopen the platform. Middlewich wouldn't just be Manchester facing, the Crewe options for connections would play a big part.

 

[pharrc20]

How about Altrincham to Sandbach and/or Crewe via Middlewich? Keeps it well clear of Manchester South bottleneckup. Only pinch point potential at Sandbach to Crewe end and where to put a train once it has arrived at Sandbach. The island platform is okay but would need accessibility lifts putting in too. And yes 230 units would be ideal too but much work to do first especially at Northwich for example putting third platform back in and all the associated signalling and wotnot.

Cheers Paul

 

[py_megapixel]

How about Altrincham to Sandbach and/or Crewe via Middlewich? Keeps it well clear of Manchester South bottleneckup. Only pinch point potential at Sandbach to Crewe end and where to put a train once it has arrived at Sandbach.

Really depends where the main destination from Middlewich is likely to be. The need for a change to get into Manchester may put people off using the train.

 

[emoaconr]

Perhaps a bit of an unlikely choice given congestion on the WCML, but theoretically a route to Liverpool via Greenbank spur and Runcorn could be interesting.

 

[pharrc20]

Really depends where the main destination from Middlewich is likely to be. The need for a change to get into Manchester may put people off using the train.

True but try getting paths between Edgeley 2 and Piccadilly. But then could just as easily go via Sandbach then to Manchester

 

[Gathursty]

Crewe, Middlewich, Northwich, Acton Bridge, Warrington Bank Quay - 1tph

 

[LOL The Irony]

Crewe to Altrincham/Navigation Road. Only problem is, how many Piccadilly crew sign both Manchester - Crewe and the Mid-Cheshire?

 

[The Planner]

Crewe to Altrincham/Navigation Road. Only problem is, how many Piccadilly crew sign both Manchester - Crewe and the Mid-Cheshire?

You train them, it becomes part of the business case.

 

[Watershed]

Crewe to Altrincham/Navigation Road. Only problem is, how many Piccadilly crew sign both Manchester - Crewe and the Mid-Cheshire?

Everyone at Piccadilly signs Crewe, only some links sign the MCL.