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How would you timetable IC services?

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MidnightFlyer

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I see may on here commenting on various aspects of IC timetabling, no intermediate XC calls, Tamworth stops on Anglo-Scottish trains, York stops on the Edinburgh headliner.

Anyway, how would you timetable IC trains as they stand, forget paths and extras, just focus on off-peak patterns, and maybe seasonal services.

Mine:
GWML/GEML - fine ATM
XC - no intermediate calls (Burton etc)
EC - we'll see how Eureka! goes.
WCML:
Euston-Birmingham - as now
Euston-Manchester - Stafford, Tamworth and Rugby calls
Euston-Liverpool - Nuneaton and Liverpool South Parkway calls
Euston-North Wales - Watford Jn calls, summer trains to Llandudno
Euston-Scotland - Milton Keynes and Crewe calls
Birmingham-Scotland - as now

Anyone else?
 
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route:oxford

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I'd timetable a stop at MK every 2 hours on the Glasgow Pendolino.

Ideal for when the Oxford-MK services eventually start operating.
 

dave_wm

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On XC, I'd try to timetable a 'fast long-distance' and a 'semi-fast short-distance' train per hour on each route out of Birmingham.

On the North East route, for example, I'd have the xx03 Edinburgh service call Derby, Sheffield, Wakefield Westgate, Leeds, York, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle & stations to Edinburgh, whilst the xx30 (slightly quieter) would call Tamworth or Burton-on-Trent, Derby, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Doncaster, York, Darlington, Durham, Chester-le-Street (1tp2h), Newcastle.

It would hopefully move some of the crowding, would result in a slightly more even service between York and Newcastle and still allow calls at Tamworth/Burton-on-Trent.

With the WCML services, I'd add a Tamworth/Lichfield TV call (once every two hours each) to the Liverpool service, and an hourly call at Nuneaton in the Chester service.

I'm not too sure how I'd deal with the Crewe call in Anglo-Scottish services though...
 

Zoe

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On the North East route, for example, I'd have the xx03 Edinburgh service call Derby, Sheffield, Wakefield Westgate, Leeds, York, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle & stations to Edinburgh, whilst the xx30 (slightly quieter) would call Tamworth or Burton-on-Trent, Derby, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Doncaster, York, Darlington, Durham, Chester-le-Street (1tp2h), Newcastle.
If you want it to be fast though wouldn't you send it via Doncaster and let the slow service run via Leeds?
 

dave_wm

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I say fast in terms of less stops, rather than actual fast journey times - the lack of stops would make journeys to and via Leeds slightly quicker, whilst adding some extra capacity through passengers for intermediate stations using the other train.
 

ainsworth74

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ECML from London:

Peterborough 1tph
Doncaster 3tph (2 Leeds bound 1 Edinburgh bound)
Leeds 2tph (With the extras to places like Skipton, Harrogate, Ilkley(?) and Bradford)
York 2tph
Darlington 2tph
Durham 1tph
Newcastle 2tph
Edinburgh 1tph (with the odd extra service made up of the Inverness/Aberdeen/Glasgow trains)

This doesn't account for GC or HT so there would be extras every so often at places like Doncaster and York. For all other stations I would try and get an hourly service going by adding the stops onto the various services but I would try and avoid south of Doncaster having more than one stop between Kings Cross and Doncaster on most services if at all possible. There would probably also in the peak be a few extras such as an all-stops to Newcastle for example. No idea if there would be stock or paths to make this work but you told me to ignore all that so I did. I also probably cut somewhere important out of my reckoning.
 

rail-britain

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Mine:
XC - no intermediate calls (Burton etc)
Euston-Scotland - Milton Keynes and Crewe calls
Birmingham-Scotland - as now
XC, I agree that many of the intermediate stops should be removed, especially between Scotland and Birmingham (making it similar to the parallel service on the WCML)

Euston - Scotland, I disagree with Crewe as there is no need as the Birmingham service already calls there
I partially agree with Milton Keynes, at least three services each day
Added to that should be one service that makes all the traditional calls between Stafford and Milton Keynes (removing the need to change at Crewe)
Remove stops between Carlisle and Preston (see below with better alignment of times) to decrease journey time
Add Motherwell to every second service

Birmingham - Scotland, remove the duplicate stops between Carlisle and Preston with the proceeding / following Euston service, or add all stops (better alignment of times), as required
This would allow the reintroduction of Motherwell as standard, although journey time would be marginally longer, due to stopping at all major stations between Carlisle and Preston on some service
 

Zoe

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Peterborough 1tph
Doncaster 3tph (2 Leeds bound 1 Edinburgh bound)
Leeds 2tph (With the extras to places like Skipton, Harrogate, Ilkley(?) and Bradford)
York 2tph
Darlington 2tph
Durham 1tph
Newcastle 2tph
Edinburgh 1tph (with the odd extra service made up of the Inverness/Aberdeen/Glasgow trains)
What about Berwick?
 

tbtc

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Mine:
XC - no intermediate calls (Burton etc)

WCML:
Euston-Manchester - Stafford, Tamworth and Rugby calls

So Tamworth loses its long distance XC services but gains more long distance XC services?

TBH I've never seen the fuss about the lack of fast long distance services to the Trent Valley stations - there was never really much of a regular service to any of them pre-VHF (apart from Nuneaton).

A few other comments:

ECML: Six trains an hour from London as far as Doncaster (not all stopping at Donny), split between two "fast", two "semi fast" (say a couple of stops) and two "slow" (say Peterborough, Grantham, Newark plus either Retford/Stevenage).

Services continue to Leeds (two/ hour), Newcastle (two/ hour - some of which continue to Edinburgh) and then maybe one path alternating between Hull/Sunderland and the other path to York only.

WCML: Double the LM service from Rugby to Stafford as a local service. Concentrate long-distance stops at Interchange stations (Crewe, Stafford etc) and Milton Keynes.

MML: Use the path "opposite" the Corby service for a "Sheffield via Erewash Valley" service. Cut (at least some of) the existing off-peak London - Derby - Sheffield trains back to Derby.
 

YorkshireBear

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MML: Use the path "opposite" the Corby service for a "Sheffield via Erewash Valley" service. Cut (at least some of) the existing off-peak London - Derby - Sheffield trains back to Derby.

I must admit with MML particularly the slower service off peak is dead. Keep the fast express and cut the slower express to derby.
 

NXEA!

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I see may on here commenting on various aspects of IC timetabling, no intermediate XC calls, Tamworth stops on Anglo-Scottish trains, York stops on the Edinburgh headliner.

Anyway, how would you timetable IC trains as they stand, forget paths and extras, just focus on off-peak patterns, and maybe seasonal services.

Mine:
GWML/GEML - fine ATM
XC - no intermediate calls (Burton etc)
EC - we'll see how Eureka! goes.
WCML:
Euston-Birmingham - as now
Euston-Manchester - Stafford, Tamworth and Rugby calls
Euston-Liverpool - Nuneaton and Liverpool South Parkway calls
Euston-North Wales - Watford Jn calls, summer trains to Llandudno
Euston-Scotland - Milton Keynes and Crewe calls
Birmingham-Scotland - as now

Anyone else?
On the GEML I would add in a Shenfield stop on the slow service from Norwich an hour, so it would call at Diss, Stowmarket, Ipswich, Manningtree, Colchester, Chelmsford, Shenfield (set down only), Stratford (set down only) and Liverpool Street. Its a shame as the Shenfield stops in my experience were well patronised.
For the WCML it is quite difficult getting a balance of connectivity and fast journey times. Birmingham's are fine as they are. The Manchester's I would change however. One train per hour would call at Watford Jcn, Milton Keynes Ctl and Rugby the same as with the Birmingham's and the Milton Keynes and Rugby services after those stations would run fast to Stoke-On-Trent, then Macclesfield, Stockport and Piccadilly. The service which stopped at Watford would be the service via Crewe. It would call at Watford, Nuneaton, Lichfield, Tamworth, Stafford, Crewe, Wilmslow and Piccadilly, this becoming more of a stopping service after Nuneaton. The two Liverpool's an hour (presuming the service goes to half-hourly which is the best option for the extra path IMO) I would stop at the following places. Train 1: Milton Keynes Ctl, Stafford, Runcorn and Liverpool Lime Street. Train 2: Rugby, Crewe, Runcorn and Liverpool Lime Street. The North Wales services I would run fast from Euston to Crewe, then Chester and all principal stations to Holyhead, with the Manchester via Crewe timed to arrive in Crewe a few minutes earlier either cross-platform or on the same platform to allow passengers from the stations served by this train to change onto the Wales services. The Scottish services once they go hourly would be like this: Train 1: Milton Keynes Ctl, Preston, Lancaster, Carlisle, Glasgow. Train 2: Crewe, Preston, Lancaster, Carlisle and Glasgow. The Birmingham-Scotland services would call at Wolverhampton, Crewe, Preston, Lancaster, Oxenholme, Penrith, Carlisle, Motherwell and Glasgow/Edinburgh. I would change a few things on the GWML too. For the West Country services to Penzance, I would make them call at Reading, Taunton, Exeter, Newton Abbot, Plymouth, and then principle stations to Penzance. I would introduce an Exeter stopping service every hour calling at Reading, Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury, Castle Cary, Taunton, Tiverton and Exeter. On the Temple Meads route the xx.00 off Paddington would call at Reading, Didcot Parkway, Chippenham, Bath Spa, and TM. The xx.30 would call at Reading, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa, TM and continue onto Weston-super-Mare. For South Wales the xx.15 off Paddington would be the one carrying onto Swansea, calling at Reading, Bristol Parkway, Newport, Cardiff Central, (can't remember if I have the right order here), Port Talbot Parkway, Neath, Llanelli and Swansea. The xx.45 would terminate at Cardiff and call at Slough, Reading, Didcot Parkway, Swindon, Bristol Parkway, Newport and Cardiff. Oxford fasts would stay as they are. :)
 

N Levers

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I would change a few things on the GWML too. For the West Country services to Penzance, I would make them call at Reading, Taunton, Exeter, Newton Abbot, Plymouth, and then principle stations to Penzance. I would introduce an Exeter stopping service every hour calling at Reading, Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury, Castle Cary, Taunton, Tiverton and Exeter. On the Temple Meads route the xx.00 off Paddington would call at Reading, Didcot Parkway, Chippenham, Bath Spa, and TM. The xx.30 would call at Reading, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa, TM and continue onto Weston-super-Mare. For South Wales the xx.15 off Paddington would be the one carrying onto Swansea, calling at Reading, Bristol Parkway, Newport, Cardiff Central, (can't remember if I have the right order here), Port Talbot Parkway, Neath, Llanelli and Swansea. The xx.45 would terminate at Cardiff and call at Slough, Reading, Didcot Parkwa, Swindon, Bristol Parkway, Newport and Cardiff. Oxford fasts would stay yas they are. :)

Congratulations, You just halved the services to Swindon, and made 45 mins in every hour with no service. Also only 1 train an hour to Bristol/Bath/South Wales and Didcot...
 

WestCoast

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Just a general point.

The thing is, InterCity services can't be all things to all people. Some want speed with few stops, some want direct services from their local station to London/Manchester/Edinburgh and aren't prepared to change, some want to use InterCity services as short-distance commuter services e.t.c.

You're not going to please everyone. It's why mainland European countries often have regional trains mirroring sections of intercity routes with premium fares charged for the faster services.
 

sulli_os

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My thoughts for the Hope Valley (TPE South):

* Lose the Northern stopper in its current format

* Replace with two semi-fast services as follows:
i) Hope-Valley stopper, calling at all stations until Chinley (for example) then fast to Stockport & Manchester
ii) Hope-Valley flyer, running non-stop to Chinley (again, for example) then all stations until Manchester

Effectively, split the stopper, turning it into two semi-fast services

For other routes, I would look at having more semi-fast services to make better use of the available track space. Would mean slightly longer end to end journeys but could create some additional paths.


Edit: I realise the TPE isn't exactly IC, but it's close enough for me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I must admit with MML particularly the slower service off peak is dead. Keep the fast express and cut the slower express to derby.

Sheffield City Council put a large amount of effort in to make sure Sheffield has a London rail connection comparable with its rival cities Leeds and Manchester. Don't think it should be culled after just a year.

Perhaps the second Sheffield-London service should be part of a (semi-fast?) Leeds -London via Nottingham or an extension of the Nottingham fast service to London?
 

Aictos

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If this was possible and I doubt it will happen but you could speed up the East Coast services between Peterborough and York for example by using AC Class 444s to run semi fast services between Kings Cross and York stopping only at:

Stevenage
Peterborough
Grantham
Newark Northgate
Retford
Doncaster

Some East Coast services will still call at these stations but the majority won't, connections would still be made possible at Peterborough, Doncaster and York for onward connections.

By not using the HSTs for example, you could in theory run the previously advertised Lincoln services but also look at introducing a second Inverness service from York/Newcastle arriving about 11am then leaving about 2pm for York, passengers requiring London could change at Newcastle or York.
 

EltonRoad

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WCML - one or two Euston to Glasgow trains should stop at Rugby. Bit ridiculous you can't get from there to the north west at present, apart from 0645 which will be too early for many.

ECML - please reinstate the Peterborough call into the Highland Chieftain. This train has now been closed off to East Anglia, unless you change twice, and what's more the excellent value £58.75 1st advance from Norwich to Inverness doesn't seem to be available on any train any more.
 
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