HSTs between Edinburgh & Aberdeen in the 1980s

[StornowayCraig]

I’ve been reading the SDEGs new book on 47/7 push pull workings in the 80s and was interested to see that in the May 1985 timetable that apart from the 08:55 and 16:55 from Edinburgh, all other Aberdeen-Edinburgh services were diagrammed for HSTs.

Can anyone tell me how long this timetable lasted for? I always thought there were only two HSTs daily between the two cities, with the other diagrams being worked conventional loco hauled.

 

[12LDA28C]

I’ve been reading the SDEGs new book on 47/7 push pull workings in the 80s and was interested to see that in the May 1985 timetable that apart from the 08:55 and 16:55 from Edinburgh, all other Aberdeen-Edinburgh services were diagrammed for HSTs.

Can anyone tell me how long this timetable lasted for? I always thought there were only two HSTs daily between the two cities, with the other diagrams being worked conventional loco hauled.

Can't answer your question I'm afraid but I believe I might be getting that book for Christmas, along with the first two books in the series, which I'm rather looking forward to.

 

[hexagon789]

I’ve been reading the SDEGs new book on 47/7 push pull workings in the 80s and was interested to see that in the May 1985 timetable that apart from the 08:55 and 16:55 from Edinburgh, all other Aberdeen-Edinburgh services were diagrammed for HSTs.

Can anyone tell me how long this timetable lasted for? I always thought there were only two HSTs daily between the two cities, with the other diagrams being worked conventional loco hauled.

It was a fairly long standing arrangement.

The first step was extending the Flying Scotsman back to start from Aberdeen in 1981. That gave 3 HSTs Aberdeen to London, previously there were two since the ECML HST full service came in from May 1979.

Use of sets in marginal time then commenced in earnest in 1982, with some Glasgow-Edinburgh fasts using the sets both running through to London and a few early/late internals. There was an Edinburgh-London extended back to Perth to give a morning peak Perth to Edinburgh that happened to then run London, this became the Highland Chieftain to/from Inverness in 1984. The Edinburgh/Penzance was extended to/from Dundee in 1983, calling at all stops into Edinburgh to form a standard pattern Dundee stopper to Edinburgh and then running all the way to Penzance, and an evening peak Edinburgh-Dundee stopper on the return as well.

In 1982/3 there was also the Nottingham-Glasgow/Aberdeen and the Aberdeen-Birmingham-Euston working, stock all provided by other regions.

The rough frequency Edinburgh-Aberdeen was two-hourly but as the HSTs could run at higher speeds than LHCS, they ran at slightly different intervals and to faster timings.

The HSTs left Edinburgh at the same time as LHCS, but returned from Aberdeen 5 mins later than LHCS workings.

The Scottish Region Basic Interval Timetable was launched in May 1982, HSTs were first timed to use the HST differentials from that change (they had been implemented the previous November between Edinburgh and Aberdeen via Dundee.


In 1984 for example, there were 5 HSTs between Aberdeen and London (0600, 0810, 1000, 1300 and 1600; plus and 1820 to Leeds) and 4 back (0800, 1000, 1300, 1600; plus an 0620 from Leeds). There was an internal Edinburgh/Aberdeen pair which used an HST working up in the early morning then returning from Aberdeen all the way to London and the opposite in the late-evening; plus the LHCS CrossCountry working to Plymouth/Penzance which replaced the Dundee-Newcastle-Sheffield-Penzance HST in the 1984 NE-SW reorganisation.

By making such use of HSTs in marginal time, as well as making most Edinburgh/Aberdeen services about 15 mins faster, ScotRail only had to provide stock for two train pairs.

From May 1986, these were booked Mk2 push-pull.

It wasn't only the Edinburgh-Aberdeen route that used other region's trains in marginal time on internal workings, though it had the greatest amount, but some marginal time workings appeared elsewhere for instance on the Highland Main Line such as the Summer 1986 Inverness-Plymouth/Taunton-Inverness service which reversed at Glasgow Queen Street and used a XC Mk2 air-con half-set.

The Scottish Region made ever increasingly use of other region's stock in marginal time through the 1980s, making use of stock for Cross-Border InterCity services that would otherwise be stood idle for several hours. They were masters at it!

 

[StornowayCraig]

Can't answer your question I'm afraid but I believe I might be getting that book for Christmas, along with the first two books in the series, which I'm rather looking forward to.

It’s an excellent book, I’m sure you’ll enjoy!

It was a fairly long standing arrangement.

The first step was extending the Flying Scotsman back to start from Aberdeen in 1981. That gave 3 HSTs Aberdeen to London, previously there were two since the ECML HST full service came in from May 1979.

Use of sets in marginal time then commenced in earnest in 1982, with some Glasgow-Edinburgh fasts using the sets both running through to London and a few early/late internals. There was an Edinburgh-London extended back to Perth to give a morning peak Perth to Edinburgh that happened to then run London, this became the Highland Chieftain to/from Inverness in 1984. The Edinburgh/Penzance was extended to/from Dundee in 1983, calling at all stops into Edinburgh to form a standard pattern Dundee stopper to Edinburgh and then running all the way to Penzance, and an evening peak Edinburgh-Dundee stopper on the return as well.

In 1982/3 there was also the Nottingham-Glasgow/Aberdeen and the Aberdeen-Birmingham-Euston working, stock all provided by other regions.

The rough frequency Edinburgh-Aberdeen was two-hourly but as the HSTs could run at higher speeds than LHCS, they ran at slightly different intervals and to faster timings.

The HSTs left Edinburgh at the same time as LHCS, but returned from Aberdeen 5 mins later than LHCS workings.

The Scottish Region Basic Interval Timetable was launched in May 1982, HSTs were first timed to use the HST differentials from that change (they had been implemented the previous November between Edinburgh and Aberdeen via Dundee.


In 1984 for example, there were 5 HSTs between Aberdeen and London (0600, 0810, 1000, 1300 and 1600; plus and 1820 to Leeds) and 4 back (0800, 1000, 1300, 1600; plus an 0620 from Leeds). There was an internal Edinburgh/Aberdeen pair which used an HST working up in the early morning then returning from Aberdeen all the way to London and the opposite in the late-evening; plus the LHCS CrossCountry working to Plymouth/Penzance which replaced the Dundee-Newcastle-Sheffield-Penzance HST in the 1984 NE-SW reorganisation.

By making such use of HSTs in marginal time, as well as making most Edinburgh/Aberdeen services about 15 mins faster, ScotRail only had to provide stock for two train pairs.

From May 1986, these were booked Mk2 push-pull.

It wasn't only the Edinburgh-Aberdeen route that used other region's trains in marginal time on internal workings, though it had the greatest amount, but some marginal time workings appeared elsewhere for instance on the Highland Main Line such as the Summer 1986 Inverness-Plymouth/Taunton-Inverness service which reversed at Glasgow Queen Street and used a XC Mk2 air-con half-set.

The Scottish Region made ever increasingly use of other region's stock in marginal time through the 1980s, making use of stock for Cross-Border InterCity services that would otherwise be stood idle for several hours. They were masters at it!

Hexagon789, thanks for that info!
How long did this situation last for? I’m assuming that when the 158s were introduced in 1990 that this allowed for more diagrams to be covered by then rather than by using cross border stock?

 

[hexagon789]

How long did this situation last for? I’m assuming that when the 158s were introduced in 1990 that this allowed for more diagrams to be covered by then rather than by using cross border stock?

Broadly until Sprinterisation.

Unfortunately that was delayed.

Edinburgh-Aberdeen was meant to go to hourly, as was Glasgow-Aberdeen.

Glasgow to Aberdeen went to hourly as planned in May 1990 but using 156s (bar one peak servuce each way), mostly purloined from Inverness depot to slightly extended timings (leaving 3 mins earlier from Glasgow QS for example.

Edinburgh to Aberdeen remained two-hourly until 1991, with ScotRail services remaining loco-hauled.

Additionally Inverness-Aberdeen reverted to loco-hauled, having initially gone to 156s in 1989.

Finally 156s were also used between Edinburgh & Glasgow replacing the push-pull sets.

When the full 158 delivery for the Express services was complete, ScotRail now offered the majority of the Edinburgh-Aberdeen service which was now hourly, though HSTs still ran to slightly different timings mostly due to pathing coming up from England rather than speed. The 158s were permitted to use HST differentials from the get-go in Scotland.

By this point with impending ECML eletrication a number of changes appeared such as reducing the ECML HST workings to 4 (3 London & 1 Leeds each way), there was still an LHCS XC service to/from Aberdeen but the Dundee-Penzance HST returned when XC received more HSTs after ECML electrification.

I think the current 4 LNER, nominally 2 XC arrangement Aberdeen/Edinburgh dates from about 1992.

(I do have the all the relevant timetables, but I'm not presently able to check them.)

 

[StornowayCraig]

Broadly until Sprinterisation.

Unfortunately that was delayed.

Edinburgh-Aberdeen was meant to go to hourly, as was Glasgow-Aberdeen.

Glasgow to Aberdeen went to hourly as planned in May 1990 but using 156s (bar one peak servuce each way), mostly purloined from Inverness depot to slightly extended timings (leaving 3 mins earlier from Glasgow QS for example.

Edinburgh to Aberdeen remained two-hourly until 1991, with ScotRail services remaining loco-hauled.

Additionally Inverness-Aberdeen reverted to loco-hauled, having initially gone to 156s in 1989.

Finally 156s were also used between Edinburgh & Glasgow replacing the push-pull sets.

When the full 158 delivery for the Express services was complete, ScotRail now offered the majority of the Edinburgh-Aberdeen service which was now hourly, though HSTs still ran to slightly different timings mostly due to pathing coming up from England rather than speed. The 158s were permitted to use HST differentials from the get-go in Scotland.

By this point with impending ECML eletrication a number of changes appeared such as reducing the ECML HST workings to 4 (3 London & 1 Leeds each way), there was still an LHCS XC service to/from Aberdeen but the Dundee-Penzance HST returned when XC received more HSTs after ECML electrification.

I think the current 4 LNER, nominally 2 XC arrangement Aberdeen/Edinburgh dates from about 1992.

(I do have the all the relevant timetables, but I'm not presently able to check them.)

Brilliant, thank you!

 

[Taunton]

It was something of a continuation of what had been done in 1970s loco hauled days, when London to Edinburgh services took just under six hours. The first 08.00 from London train arrived at Edinburgh just before 14.00, and the last daytime departure was the 16.00 back (actually the same stock). Other than that, all the Mk2 sets arriving or leaving had no London service to turn round for, so either went to the sidings or were available for internal Scottish work. The many overnight services used separate Mk1 stock.

The same applied to the Deltic locos, which rather randomly but commonly worked on to Aberdeen and back, sometimes several in a day, sometimes none. We have discussed this before. It seemingly depended on how many were out of action at Doncaster works, which varied. The locos of course did work the overnight services as well, and also sometimes took those on to Aberdeen.

The Scottish Region made ever increasingly use of other region's stock in marginal time through the 1980s, making use of stock for Cross-Border InterCity services that would otherwise be stood idle for several hours. They were masters at it!

And for other locos too. I recall in the early 1970s most of the Glasgow to Aberdeen services were Class 47 hauled with locos based at Crewe or Tinsley.