Huddersfield to Bradford & Back on 142s...

[alexl92]

Did this journey (via Brighouse & Halifax) for the first time today today - think it was 142086 on the way back but I can't remember for certain.

One thing I noticed was that at every junction (Bradley, Bradley Wood, Dryclough etc) the train slowed down to about 15mph... is this because it was a pacer or do all trains have to do this?

Also, coming back we stopped for a red at the end of the tunnel just before Halifax. After waiting some time, we set off again, with the signal still red, and the driver sounded a blast of about 10 seconds on his horn. The on arrival in Halifax 30 seconds later, 3 members of staff boarded the train to talk to the driver for a few minutes. The guard said something about the signal being 'out', but the red was definitely lit when we passed it - did he just mean not working? I don't know anything about signalling at all.

Cheers

 

[Wolf]

Bradley junction and Bradley wood junction between Deighton and brighouse are both 15mph over. Greetland is 20 and dryclough, one at top of hill is 25 over for trains to and from brighouse. There's no speed on the route with specifically apply to sprinter only trains so no pacers can do same speed as any 15x unit and yes sounds like driver had to pass stop signal at bottom of beacon hill tunnel at danger for whatever reason, signal failure is a common reason to have to pass at danger. wud have been given authority by halfax signaller to do that. Sounding horn when passing signal at danger withy authority isn't in rule book anymore but know of lot of driver which still do it.

 

[northwichcat]

Huddersfield-Bradford is one of the few routes where a Pacer seems to be able to run the route without providing an unsatisfactory ride quality. It seems a shame that Northern waste 158s on it while using Pacers on routes where having a Pacer is a real disadvantage.

Some drivers who sign the Mid-Cheshire line do go below the permitted speed between Skelton Junction and Deansgate Junction presumably to protect their and passenger's ears, so it's possible the same happens on other sharp sections where Pacers are used.

 

[edwin_m]

Also, coming back we stopped for a red at the end of the tunnel just before Halifax. After waiting some time, we set off again, with the signal still red, and the driver sounded a blast of about 10 seconds on his horn. The on arrival in Halifax 30 seconds later, 3 members of staff boarded the train to talk to the driver for a few minutes. The guard said something about the signal being 'out', but the red was definitely lit when we passed it - did he just mean not working? I don't know anything about signalling at all.

Possibly the driver had been asked to examine the line, and was reporting back to the staff who were about to go out and fix whatever the problem was?

 

[alexl92]

Huddersfield-Bradford is one of the few routes where a Pacer seems to be able to run the route without providing an unsatisfactory ride quality. It seems a shame that Northern waste 158s on it while using Pacers on routes where having a Pacer is a real disadvantage.

Some drivers who sign the Mid-Cheshire line do go below the permitted speed between Skelton Junction and Deansgate Junction presumably to protect their and passenger's ears, so it's possible the same happens on other sharp sections where Pacers are used.

It wasn't the worst I've had on a pacer but I'd still disagree that the ride quality was satisfactory. I was seriously questioning whether it had wheel flats at one point (not that it would have been allowed out with them but still).

Possibly the driver had been asked to examine the line, and was reporting back to the staff who were about to go out and fix whatever the problem was?

The gap between the signal and the point where we stopped in the platform wasn't even 350 metres.

 

[Tomnick]

Huddersfield-Bradford is one of the few routes where a Pacer seems to be able to run the route without providing an unsatisfactory ride quality. It seems a shame that Northern waste 158s on it while using Pacers on routes where having a Pacer is a real disadvantage.

Are they still interworked with Calder Valley services? They used to be formed off a Manchester (?) - Selby service, then returning to Leeds to form one back across to the West, if I'm not mistaken. I agree that the leg in question isn't the best use of a 158 (last time I used it, Brighouse to Huddersfield in the middle of the day, we had a 3-car set virtually to ourselves), but it does make more efficient use of the fleet overall, and hopefully the diagrams are arranged such that the trains with the higher capacity drop onto the busier services in the peaks.

 

[Wolf]

Are they still interworked with Calder Valley services? They used to be formed off a Manchester (?) - Selby service, then returning to Leeds to form one back across to the West, if I'm not mistaken. I agree that the leg in question isn't the best use of a 158 (last time I used it, Brighouse to Huddersfield in the middle of the day, we had a 3-car set virtually to ourselves), but it does make more efficient use of the fleet overall, and hopefully the diagrams are arranged such that the trains with the higher capacity drop onto the busier services in the peaks.

No not anymore since may last year when all calder valley times changed due to extra tpe newcastle-liverpool, except maybe the odd diagram. Also Mainly 150s , 144s and 142s now. They run generally selby-huddersfield one way and huddersfield -leeds in the other. The unit generally shunts at leeds into pl 7 or 14, stables nearly an hour then works leeds-selby stoppers and then does it all over again. Funny diagramming but probably only way they can run the services and it does keep 158s especially 3 car units off diagrams where their shuttling about 3/4 empty all day and allows them to be kept on leeds-man vics and york-blackpools.

 

[Philip]

Lines with poor quality jointed rail almost seem suitable for poor quality trains such as 142s, even though the ride quality on the 142s makes it quite an uncomfortable journey. The Atherton, Chester and Southport lines are all of quite poor quality in general despite improvements in some areas, but it can be quite fun bouncing along them in a Pacer, particularly the lines which reach 60 or 70 mph on jointed rail.

Not so long ago whenever 142s went round the curve after Salford Central Station, crossing Chapel Street, going towards Victoria the squeal the wheels made rounding the curve was near deafening.

 

[ASharpe]

Don't know if it has been sorted yet, but there was some problem with the line between Bradford and Halifax last Saturday. There were some safety checks and after that things got pretty much back to normal.

On Sunday I spotted some temporary speed boards up and the train was going a fair bit slower than usual. Can't remember the exact location it might have been just after the tunnel near Odsal.

I agree that the Bradford to Halifax line is well suited to Pacers, not that bad a ride at all compared to many lines they are used on.

 

[alexl92]

Not so long ago whenever 142s went round the curve after Salford Central Station, crossing Chapel Street, going towards Victoria the squeal the wheels made rounding the curve was near deafening.

On the Harrogate Line, the curve round onto the Crimple Valley Viaduct is horrendous. The squealing is ear-splitting.

The other thing I noticed was how insanely close to each other the seats are. I'm 6ft and I am not overweight, but I can't sit in a normal forward-facing position in them - there simply isn't enough room. Did they not notice that simply cramming in the same number of chairs as there were of the (much thinner) bus benches wouldn't work?!

 

[47802]

Don't know if it has been sorted yet, but there was some problem with the line between Bradford and Halifax last Saturday. There were some safety checks and after that things got pretty much back to normal.

On Sunday I spotted some temporary speed boards up and the train was going a fair bit slower than usual. Can't remember the exact location it might have been just after the tunnel near Odsal.

I agree that the Bradford to Halifax line is well suited to Pacers, not that bad a ride at all compared to many lines they are used on.

There's no such thing as a line suited to pacers, but I do agree it is preferable to put them on a short run this this.

 

[krus_aragon]

There's no such thing as a line suited to pacers, but I do agree it is preferable to put them on a short run this this.

I think this is one of the best-suited to pacer service...

 

[northwichcat]

Lines with poor quality jointed rail almost seem suitable for poor quality trains such as 142s, even though the ride quality on the 142s makes it quite an uncomfortable journey. The Atherton, Chester and Southport lines are all of quite poor quality in general despite improvements in some areas, but it can be quite fun bouncing along them in a Pacer, particularly the lines which reach 60 or 70 mph on jointed rail.

Not so long ago whenever 142s went round the curve after Salford Central Station, crossing Chapel Street, going towards Victoria the squeal the wheels made rounding the curve was near deafening.

Apparently Wigan-Southport has been improved since I last rode it but to say Pacers should be used on that line because the track quality is poor isn't something I agree with. If someone has back problems than a Pacer on that line would have made the condition much worse.

Not sure why you think the Chester line is poor quality - on a Sprinter the ride quality is very good. The line does have a number of farmer's crossing points between Altrincham and Chester which Pacers don't seem to like. The track between Deansgate Junction and Skelton Junction could be improved especially as the line to Lymm no longer exists.

 

[Wolf]

Did wigan to southport few months back as a passenger and yeh was a fairly interesting ride but not as much as settle junction to carnforth on Leeds - Lancaster services ! Have down it both as a passenger and drove it and it's just as scary driving it as being a passenger The bit between giggles wick and clapham is unbelievable and I can understand if some drivers take it slower than the line speed 60 down there. However the case is then for how long do you as a driver drive below the line speed? If it's just for the odd rough points here and there then fair enough but on the Leeds to Lancaster services you have to get it to 60 or somewhere very close to keep to time between stations.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

The timings on this service are a disgrace. Bradford - Huddersfield trains have to hang about for 10 mins or so at Halifax, meaning the train takes 45 mins to connect two cities only 12 miles apart. The X6 bus is faster.

Clearly TPE cherry pick the best slots between Huddersfield and Leeds and Northern are left with what's left.

Its about time that this was sorted.

 

[Andyh82]

Huddersfield to Bradford on a 142 probably isn't an issue, Bradford to Leeds on one probably is.

Personally to resolve both this and the pathing issues I would change the service to run just Bradford to Huddersfield, this means it wouldn't have to hang around at Halifax.

The 4th service per hour between Leeds and Bradford would then continue to Manchester. Obviously a few more units would be required for this.

Evenings and Sundays would have to stay the same

 

[northwichcat]

Clearly TPE cherry pick the best slots between Huddersfield and Leeds and Northern are left with what's left.

Northern are stuck with paths the other operators don't want. Although, TPE don't run Huddersfield-Halifax-Bradford-Leeds. The other services most likely to cause pathing conflicts with that one are Victoria-Leeds Northern services and Blackpool-York Northern services.
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Huddersfield to Bradford on a 142 probably isn't an issue, Bradford to Leeds on one probably is.

Why? Bradford-Leeds is a short distance. If a 142 is insufficient capacity then the option of adding an extra 142 for that section could be an option, alternatively using 2 x 142s or a 3 car 144 for the entire duration.

 

[alexl92]

Did this journey again today, albeit on a 158 out to Bradford and then back via Leeds on a 158 and then a 185 because I missed my planned return train.

It struck me on the outward journey that the speed limits on this route is frankly wasteful. If there was no need to slow down so excessively for the junctions you could reduce the journey time and probably reduce congestion on that route too. Waiting at a Red for a Grand Central service to Bradford Interchange is understandable but we spent much of the journey before Halifax not doing more than about 30mph (estimate).

What would be required to permit faster running along this route?

 

[30907]

Probably a major rebuild of the curve at Bradley Wood as well as all 4 junctions. The run into Halifax is pretty slow from the West anyway, so I'm not sure there's much to be gained.

 

[edwin_m]

Did this journey again today, albeit on a 158 out to Bradford and then back via Leeds on a 158 and then a 185 because I missed my planned return train.

It struck me on the outward journey that the speed limits on this route is frankly wasteful. If there was no need to slow down so excessively for the junctions you could reduce the journey time and probably reduce congestion on that route too. Waiting at a Red for a Grand Central service to Bradford Interchange is understandable but we spent much of the journey before Halifax not doing more than about 30mph (estimate).

What would be required to permit faster running along this route?

A look at an OS map will show you that all these curves and junctions are in very hilly areas, making any realignment immensely difficult, and most are also now surrounded by development. Even if the junctions were faster, the gradients on sections such as Elland to Halifax and out of Bradford Interchange would still limit achievable speeds, unless it was also electrified. There are or have been station reopening proposals for Elland and Low Moor, and with these plus the existing stations speeds would never be very high even if the alignment was perfect.

A major rebuild would be an astronomical cost and local impact, for a tiny journey time benefit to an hourly Pacer and a handful of GC workings.