If you buy a NR season ticket+travelcard

[lookapigeon]

Good morning,

Relatively straightforward one I'd think, but if you buy a season ticket (monthly or weekly) with a starting point of a National Rail station (e.g. Weybridge) plus Zones 1-6 travelcard on the same ticket, do you always have to start your journey at the National Rail station or can you begin it at any station within the zoned travelcard area on your pass for it to be valid? E.g. Surbiton in Zone 6?

Also, for these passes what format do they usually take, is it a paper ticket or is there a smart card type option (and does this work on TFL buses, can you get the journey history etc)?

Thank you!

 

[jfollows]

A season ticket is valid for unlimited travel between its end points and between any stations along its defined permitted routes, which (for your example) include via Chertsey or Kingston through Richmond. So you can use it from Surbiton to Richmond if you want.

 

[Haywain]

Also, for these passes what format do they usually take, is it a paper ticket or is there a smart card type option (and does this work on TFL buses, can you get the journey history etc)?

For an outboundary Travelcard it can be either paper or smartcard, and both will work on London buses. I don't believe that you'd be able to get journey history for a smartcard ticket. And you certainly wouldn't for a paper ticket!

 

[jfollows]

Relatively straightforward one I'd think, but if you buy a season ticket (monthly or weekly) with a starting point of a National Rail station (e.g. Weybridge) plus Zones 1-6 travelcard on the same ticket

If this is a real example, do you also want to know which rail routes this ticket is valid over? It’s more than the direct service to Clapham Junction, for example.

 

[lookapigeon]

Ok, many thanks for the answers and that it'll work on London Buses.

Sorry if I come across as a little green, I've never really done the monthly rail season ticket with travelcard thing before and I have always been used to being within the TFL zones so it's relatively straightforward as I just tap and go and use PAYG on my bank card. It charges me a fee I know for single journeys and caps at the TFL travelcard rate if I do lots of small journeys in a day.

If this is a real example, do you also want to know which rail routes this ticket is valid over? It’s more than the direct service to Clapham Junction, for example.

Go on, please do feel free to impart your wisdom upon this young padawan

The reason for the "can I use the travelcard element without necessarily starting from the from starting station" is because I sometimes stay over a friend's/relative's within the TFL zones overnight, and when I am at home (in the sticks between Walton/Weybridge) I can sometimes get a lift to the nearest TFL zone 6 station such as Surbiton/Hampton Court/Thames Ditton in the locality but it's not guaranteed every day.
So hence the reason for the flexibility.

So if I can get the Weybridge or Walton > Zones 1-6 card and it'll cover me regardless of where I begin the journey (at the official starting station, or within TFL Z6) that's useful.
The other option could always be get a TFL one (Oyster w/ Z1-6 TC or just keep using the PAYG contactless) and then buy a separate rail ticket as/when I need to get home (to Walton/Weybridge) but it's just faff - as in you presumably need to tap out at Surbiton to end the journey in TFL land and then presumably then re-enter on the other ticket?

Alternatively if there's other "backup" routes as well that the rail season ticket+travelcard combo is valid with do let me know.

For an outboundary Travelcard it can be either paper or smartcard, and both will work on London buses. I don't believe that you'd be able to get journey history for a smartcard ticket. And you certainly wouldn't for a paper ticket!

The journey history isn't a dealbreaker, it was just out of curiosity as you can for Oyster/Contactless TFL.

 

[Haywain]

The reason for the "can I use the travelcard element without necessarily starting from the from starting station" is because I sometimes stay over a friend's/relative's within the TFL zones overnight, and when I am at home (in the sticks between Walton/Weybridge) I can sometimes get a lift to the nearest TFL zone 6 station such as Surbiton/Hampton Court/Thames Ditton in the locality but it's not guaranteed every day.
So hence the reason for the flexibility.

If your commute was from X (random station in zone 1) to Weybridge you would have exactly the same ticket, as it cannot be set up to start from the zones. Therefore where you start has no bearing at all as long as it's covered by the ticket.

 

[jfollows]

Weybridge (not Walton) to London is valid via Kingston/Richmond and via Virginia Water/Richmond as well as the obvious direct route to Waterloo.
There are other valid routes for a ticket to Waterloo, but since you're talking about a Travelcard they're all covered by being within the Travelcard zones.

 

[lookapigeon]

Thanks for helping me understand the Travelcard system better, it's good that it stands in its own right, and the TFL zonal aspect overrides the fact it's a SWR station, and for pointing out the other valid routes if I go via Weybridge.
It seems the travelcard w/train ticket options are also priced differently too with varying tiers depending on which routes you want to take (the no restrictions one being the most expensive, naturally!).

Appreciate all the time and advice - finally, do I necessarily have to purchase the season ticket from SWR?
Or can I say use another TOC if they've got an offer going on, and the smartcard will do the same thing regardless? Like you can with buying any other available at all retailers ticket.

 

[30907]

It seems the travelcard w/train ticket options are also priced differently too with varying tiers depending on which routes you want to take (the no restrictions one being the most expensive, naturally!).

Unless you particularly want the route via Staines, you might as well buy the cheaper VIA SURBITON ticket.

 

[DelW]

The reason for the "can I use the travelcard element without necessarily starting from the from starting station" is because I sometimes stay over a friend's/relative's within the TFL zones overnight, and when I am at home (in the sticks between Walton/Weybridge) I can sometimes get a lift to the nearest TFL zone 6 station such as Surbiton/Hampton Court/Thames Ditton in the locality but it's not guaranteed every day.
So hence the reason for the flexibility.

I've never had a season ticket, but over many years I've regularly used an outboundary one-day travelcard to start in London (after an overnight stay), travel around within the zones during the day, and go home to the outboundary station later, without ever using the inbound leg of the ticket. As they were offpeak tickets I had to start after 9:30 (except on buses iirc), but never had any issues otherwise.

 

[Haywain]

finally, do I necessarily have to purchase the season ticket from SWR?
Or can I say use another TOC if they've got an offer going on, and the smartcard will do the same thing regardless?

That's not so simple. If you want to buy online you will need a smartcard issued by the train company you are purchasing from. If you buy at a station you will be able to use any TOC issued smartcard (other than Scotrail). This is a result of the messy smartcard implementation across National Rail TOCs.

 

[lookapigeon]

That's not so simple. If you want to buy online you will need a smartcard issued by the train company you are purchasing from. If you buy at a station you will be able to use any TOC issued smartcard (other than Scotrail). This is a result of the messy smartcard implementation across National Rail TOCs.

Thanks for the heads up, so if I bought it via someone else other than SWR I would just take whatever smartcard they are offering as part of the package, and use that?
TFL seemed like a luxury - if you have the Oyster you could manage it in any TFL machine.

Unless you particularly want the route via Staines, you might as well buy the cheaper VIA SURBITON ticket.

I don't think anyone chooses to go via Staines through choice haha yes that sounds better as I don't have any particular attachment to that route.

I've never had a season ticket, but over many years I've regularly used an outboundary one-day travelcard to start in London (after an overnight stay), travel around within the zones during the day, and go home to the outboundary station later, without ever using the inbound leg of the ticket. As they were offpeak tickets I had to start after 9:30 (except on buses iirc), but never had any issues otherwise.

Good to know, I am a longtime lurker and occasional poster so I see all of the threads in the prosecution / disputes forum about people getting caught with all sorts of problems so I didn't want to ever get caught short by some arbitrary rule, after having shelled out for a ticket.

 

[pelli]

The other option could always be get a TFL one (Oyster w/ Z1-6 TC or just keep using the PAYG contactless) and then buy a separate rail ticket as/when I need to get home (to Walton/Weybridge) but it's just faff - as in you presumably need to tap out at Surbiton to end the journey in TFL land and then presumably then re-enter on the other ticket?

If you were to buy a TfL Travelcard season ticket on an Oyster card for Zones 1-6, and combine it with a National Rail single or return ticket between e.g. Walton-on-Thames or Weybridge and Boundary Zone 6 or Surbiton, then you don't need to tap in/out when changing tickets, and the train doesn't even have to stop at the changeover point. Just tap the Oyster card to enter/exit in London, and use the National Rail ticket to enter/exit at the other end. (This is allowed by virtue of the National Rail Conditions of Travel clause 14.3, "[...] if you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket [...] in conjunction with another Ticket [...] then the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination to be valid.") (But if instead of a Travelcard you use Pay-As-You-Go on Oyster or Contactless then you must get off the train to tap in/out.)

A weekly Travelcard for Z1-6 only costs £81.60, while a weekly Travelcard from Weybridge to Z1-6 costs £120.30, i.e. £38.70 more. (The monthly difference is £462.00 - £313.40 = £148.60.) Between Weybridge and Boundary Zone 6 or Surbiton the Anytime Day Single costs £6.00 going out in the morning (£5.10 from Walton-on-Thames) and the Evening Single costs £4.40 going back (from Surbiton, not available from Boundary Zone 6), so if you only venture out of the Zones to use Weybridge less than 3 times a week or 14 times a month then the combination is cheaper, but still more faff to juggle the extra single tickets as opposed to having everything on one ticket and unlimited travel.

 

[Haywain]

so if I bought it via someone else other than SWR I would just take whatever smartcard they are offering as part of the package, and use that?

That's correct for online purchases. At stations you could use a smartcard issued by one TOC (LNER/GWR etc) at a station managed by another TOC.

TFL seemed like a luxury - if you have the Oyster you could manage it in any TFL machine.

That's true but it falls down when you want to get outside of the Oyster area.

 

[lookapigeon]

If you were to buy a TfL Travelcard season ticket on an Oyster card for Zones 1-6, and combine it with a National Rail single or return ticket between e.g. Walton-on-Thames or Weybridge and Boundary Zone 6 or Surbiton, then you don't need to tap in/out when changing tickets, and the train doesn't even have to stop at the changeover point. Just tap the Oyster card to enter/exit in London, and use the National Rail ticket to enter/exit at the other end. (This is allowed by virtue of the National Rail Conditions of Travel clause 14.3, "[...] if you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket [...] in conjunction with another Ticket [...] then the train does not need to Call at that station for your combination to be valid.") (But if instead of a Travelcard you use Pay-As-You-Go on Oyster or Contactless then you must get off the train to tap in/out.)

A weekly Travelcard for Z1-6 only costs £81.60, while a weekly Travelcard from Weybridge to Z1-6 costs £120.30, i.e. £38.70 more. (The monthly difference is £462.00 - £313.40 = £148.60.) Between Weybridge and Boundary Zone 6 or Surbiton the Anytime Day Single costs £6.00 going out in the morning (£5.10 from Walton-on-Thames) and the Evening Single costs £4.40 going back (from Surbiton, not available from Boundary Zone 6), so if you only venture out of the Zones to use Weybridge less than 3 times a week or 14 times a month then the combination is cheaper, but still more faff to juggle the extra single tickets as opposed to having everything on one ticket and unlimited travel.

All very useful tips, many thanks for pointing it out. I think I'll look at how it all shapes out in the first month and consider the Z1-6 travelcard. Pain that the TFL zonal area does't stretch to Walton/Weybridge, as could probably bus it to Surbiton/Hampton Court from Walton, as the local buses whilst under the fare cap are now pretty much an additional £6 (assuming £3 per way on the fare capped scheme). If they came under TFL's auspices, the bus rides would have been free under the travelcard.
I guess all this contactless extension as discussed on the Project oval thread is all to do with getting rid of paper tickets, as opposed to any actual integration into the TFL zonal area?