Incorrect announcement info at Manchester Oxford Rd for EMT

[ashworth]

Yesterday I was waiting at Manchester Oxford Road for the 1239 EMT service towards Norwich. The information screens and the announcements were stating that this train would divide at Nottingham with only the front 2 carriages going through to Norwich. All passengers travelling beyond Nottingham were therefore instructed to sit in the front part of the train.

I was only travelling as far as Alfreton and so it didn't matter where I sat but from previous experience I knew that when travelling without a reservation there are always more seats available in the part of the train that is detached at Nottingham as the two carriages going through to Norwich are usually mainly reserved seats. Knowing that this train reverses at Sheffield and its then at Nottingham only the front 2 carriages go through to Norwich I knew this announcement and the information screens were wrong.

When the guard came through the train checking tickets after departing from Stockport she had to inform many people that had boarded in Manchester that they were travelling in the wrong half of the train and that they would have to move before Nottingham. Many of these people had already been puzzled because they had reservations and there were no reservations in that half of the train. Surely, as these trains have been splitting at Nottingham for a number of years, and it a regular hourly happening, every day of the week the information given at Manchester should be correct.

The reason for posting this is that this situation caused lots of inconvenience and indeed distress to a number of passengers mainly families with children and lots of luggage and elderly people. The EMT guard was very apologetic and extremely helpful by leading some elderly people through the train and helping to move their luggage for them. There was one elderly lady, obviously in early stages of dementia who was particularly upset and worried by it all. Why did this happen? Doesn't the automated information system at Manchester recognise that these trains reverse at Sheffield? Does this happen every day, every hour, on a regular basis?

The one thing I did notice was just how many people had boarded at Manchester and were travelling beyond Nottingham and that didn't include those already on the train from Liverpool and Warrington and those boarding at Sheffield. I just wonder if the often rumoured proposals to split this service at Nottingham is such a good idea.

 

[dosxuk]

The front portion is sometimes removed instead of the rear at Nottingham.

I don't think any of the people suggesting the splitting of the service have ever travelled between Grantham and Alfreton and seen quite how many people travel through Nottingham.

 

[Thomas6187]

Doesn't the automated information system at Manchester recognise that these trains reverse at Sheffield? Does this happen every day, every hour, on a regular basis?

No, it right 99% of the time. However if the train schedule is changed, as most of the EMT Norwich where yesterday, it with announce the wrong potions in the wrong place. It will have been spotted and changed for the next service

 

[chubs]

It was wrong last time I used that service from Manchester Piccadilly, but each of the 4 coaches should have a different letter so as long as you sit in your assigned seat then you are OK. Everyone else seemed to ignore the screens on my service and sit in the part where their reservation was.

Whenever I use this service, lots of people use it for long journeys. Many people from Norwich go as far as Sheffield and Manchester, and the same coming back.

 

[Parallel]

This happens down in FGW land too - Some (four carriage) trains from Bristol to Weymouth detatch coaches (the rear 2) at Westbury and the weekday autoannouncements get this correct, but some of the Saturday ones say only the REAR two coaches will continue to Weymouth... Even when the rear two carriages are a 153 and half a 150!

On a particular Saturday service, the announcements were saying the front two coaches would detatch and terminate, with the rear two continuing on... When it was only formed of a single 150. (Which is what it was booked for.)

I've used this service before when a 150 + 153 turned up - The CIS on the platform was insisting only the rear two carriages would run all the way, a member of platform staff told passengers that it would all run through and the guard then confirmed that it would only be the front two carriages. The passengers didn't stand a chance.

 

[bunnahabhain]

The displays seem to work fine everywhere but Manchester, ideally it should say Coaches A & B rather than Front/Rear coaches.

 

[ashworth]

It was wrong last time I used that service from Manchester Piccadilly, but each of the 4 coaches should have a different letter so as long as you sit in your assigned seat then you are OK. Everyone else seemed to ignore the screens on my service and sit in the part where their reservation was.

Whenever I use this service, lots of people use it for long journeys. Many people from Norwich go as far as Sheffield and Manchester, and the same coming back.

Certainly on Saturday lunchtime it was the opposite of this. I think with most of the people not being regular travellers, elderly and families going on holiday, once they heard the train was going to split at Nottingham, that was all that was in their mind to board the front 2 carriages rather than find the carriage with their reservation. Some probably didn't have reservations and so naturally would just follow the instructions given in the announcements and on the screens.

My experience also is that there are quite a significant number of people who travel through Nottingham on this service. Certainly many people do Sheffield to Norwich and more than you would imagine from Manchester. I also think there is quite a market for tickets to and from Peterborough to sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool. A split at Nottingham would not be good for passenger numbers if good connections were not guaranteed. Also if two different train companies were involved would this mean less availability or more expensive Advance Fares. I've noticed that many elderly people travel long distances on this service with luggage, probably visiting relatives, and they may not even bother to travel if a change of train was needed with the worries of missed connections.

 

[causton]

The displays seem to work fine everywhere but Manchester, ideally it should say Coaches A & B rather than Front/Rear coaches.

Do these not have the Coach signs that can be changed by hand? If so, these ones are sometimes wrong, so I would at least put "Coaches A & B (At Front)" or similar to clarify!

 

[Stampy]

When I travelled to Manchester the other week from Nottingham on (I think) the 0947 departure - it was a 6-car train, however the FRONT 2 were locked out of use as they were being left at Sheffield.

There were still passengers on the platform complaining they couldn't get into them - despite the numerous tannoy announcements and Staff on the platform telling them so!!!

 

[kevjs]

Do these not have the Coach signs that can be changed by hand? If so, these ones are sometimes wrong, so I would at least put "Coaches A & B (At Front)" or similar to clarify!

Last time I got that train I had a seat reservation in coach A, the coaches were labeled D, C, C, D - handy :roll:

 

[bunnahabhain]

They do have signs that can be changed by hands, a few of them are missing the metal bit on them to change them, luckily I carry a spare one in my pocket!

 

[Chris M]

The terms "front" and "rear" are only useful if you know which way the train is going. Fine at a terminus or if you are a regular traveller, but otherwise you need some clues.
A few summers ago I used the through platforms at Manchester Piccadilly for the first time ever. Heading to Ambleside, I needed to travel in one portion of the train (I forget whether it was front or rear) but there were no signs to indicate which portion of the crowded platform I needed, and no member of staff in evidence to ask.

 

[Crossover]

The terms "front" and "rear" are only useful if you know which way the train is going. Fine at a terminus or if you are a regular traveller, but otherwise you need some clues.
A few summers ago I used the through platforms at Manchester Piccadilly for the first time ever. Heading to Ambleside, I needed to travel in one portion of the train (I forget whether it was front or rear) but there were no signs to indicate which portion of the crowded platform I needed, and no member of staff in evidence to ask.

You'd be surprised - I got asked the other day at Piccadilly if the train from the Airport to York that we were all waiting for would come in and go back out the same way, with no hint of irony, as the guy looked towards the buffers about 100m away!

 

[LowLevel]

It was wrong last time I used that service from Manchester Piccadilly, but each of the 4 coaches should have a different letter so as long as you sit in your assigned seat then you are OK. Everyone else seemed to ignore the screens on my service and sit in the part where their reservation was.

Whenever I use this service, lots of people use it for long journeys. Many people from Norwich go as far as Sheffield and Manchester, and the same coming back.

For what it's worth I did a count on a train I worked a little while ago and there were just over 40 reservations crossing Nottingham. That's not a bad number for pre-reserved on a 2 car 140 ish seater train (it was mid week as well). That's without any unreserved passenger of which there were a few. A large number of said passengers were elderly folk with their luggage who would have struggled to change trains and the train originated in the East - most of the through labels were for Manchester. Just one train of course but that's quite usual. Sunday afternoons the whole 2 car portion can be really busy by the time you've left Sheffield heading easy with through traffic.

 

[Starmill]

I heard the automatic announcer at Manchester Piccadilly actually manage to deal correctly for the first time ever this afternoon for the 1443 Norwich service. It really struggles to get the 'The front two coaches of the train will detach and terminate at Nottingham' bit right. Then there's the times when everything else is right but it just says "Travel in coaches of the train for Grantham, Peterborough... Coaches of the train will detach and terminate at Nottingham." Some places don't actually bother if there isn't a part of the train going elsewhere, and it's just going out of service.

I suppose having it on the board as the Norwich & Nottingham service is slightly less unclear than having it as the Norwich & Empty to Depot service... :roll:

 

[edwin_m]

This train is particularly difficult to deal with as it reverses at Sheffield. Those who boarded the rear coaches at Manchester for a station beyond Nottingham may then hear an announcement after Sheffield "passengers in the rear coaches should move forward...". This could cause confusion if they didn't notice the reversal.

The best solution is probably to do an announcement referring to "the coaches with/without the reservation tickets" as people can then tell whether they are in the right portion without having to get up and find the coach letter in the vestibule. However this doesn't work if (as sometimes happens) the train is not ticketed up! Many staff also do a full ticket check after Sheffield, so anyone in the wrong coach can be asked to move in good time before Nottingham.

 

[Starmill]

Would you look at that

 

[bradders1983]

This train is particularly difficult to deal with as it reverses at Sheffield

Not really. If the rear two coaches terminate once the train get to Nottingham, simply announce at stations at Liverpool, Manchester Ox Rd, Manchester P, Stockport etc.. that it is the rear two coaches that go to Norwich (as the rear two at Manchester become the front two coaches from Sheffield onwards). At stations between Sheffield and Nottingham, simply announce that it is the front two coaches.

There, problem solved.

 

[chubs]

It reverses again at Ely, thus correcting itself

 

[CdBrux]

The question to ask is what is the most obvious way to get it right that is clear, unambiguous and least likely to go wrong. Surely that must be to number / letter the coaches and then say which are going beyond Nottingham?

 

[bradders1983]

The question to ask is what is the most obvious way to get it right that is clear, unambiguous and least likely to go wrong. Surely that must be to number / letter the coaches and then say which are going beyond Nottingham?

Would it be that much of a bind for anyone in the wrong bit of the train at Nottingham to be told so once the train gets to Nottingham?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...15/08/05/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Around a seven minute dwell time on all the services which gives plenty of time to get off the train and move up one/two carriages.

Obviously have the announcements as well but given the dwell time, its hardly a problem once the train gets to Nottingham.

 

[bunnahabhain]

There isn't an issue on train, most conductors will advise passengers to move after Chesterfield so there won't be an issue at Nottingham, any passengers needing assistance to move will get it from the conductor or the dispatcher at Nottingham who walks through the detachment.

 

[edwin_m]

Would you look at that

That's probably correct information and certainly at Piccadilly, where (as a user of this every 2-3 weeks) I don't recall ever seeing it showing the opposite except on one occasion when the split was the other way round at Nottingham. (Of course I did't believe it...). The OP seems to be suggesting the problem is at Oxford Road.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not really. If the rear two coaches terminate once the train get to Nottingham, simply announce at stations at Liverpool, Manchester Ox Rd, Manchester P, Stockport etc.. that it is the rear two coaches that go to Norwich (as the rear two at Manchester become the front two coaches from Sheffield onwards). At stations between Sheffield and Nottingham, simply announce that it is the front two coaches.

There, problem solved.

I dealt with that in the part of my previous post that you snipped. If someone is concentrating on something else they may not realise the train has reversed, and then get concerned when the announcement refers to the other part of the train from what they expected.

 

[Altfish]

Yesterday I was waiting at Manchester Oxford Road for the 1239 EMT service towards Norwich. The information screens and the announcements were stating that this train would divide at Nottingham with only the front 2 carriages going through to Norwich. All passengers travelling beyond Nottingham were therefore instructed to sit in the front part of the train.

On a service that reverses twice, the terms 'front' and 'back' have little meaning.

 

[Starmill]

That's probably correct information and certainly at Piccadilly, where (as a user of this every 2-3 weeks) I don't recall ever seeing it showing the opposite except on one occasion when the split was the other way round at Nottingham. (Of course I did't believe it...). The OP seems to be suggesting the problem is at Oxford Road.

I was pointing out that the information yesterday was both accurate and sort-of easy to understand, rather than being either the wrong way around as it occasionally is, displayed as a service to Norwich & Empty To Depot as it also occasionally is, displayed without 'front' and 'rear' coaches, just with 'Coaches of train' in the announcement, or having the split just not pointed out at all.