Is nepotism rife in the railways?

[Iamanoob]

Found out earler this week that a position I applied for (Scotrail Gateline) was filled by 2 managers kids, now not saying I would have got the job but this is the second time a job I've been interviewed for has went to a managers relative. Do outsiders have any chance if they are up against a managers relative?

 

[T-Karmel]

In my experience there's no rule to that. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Myself I had no backs and I got offered few different jobs in railway and accepted few of them and worked in them. I never even knew anyone in each of the companies before I got the job. Being in some jobs I've seen relatives getting jobs before and I after I was hired.

From experience of a friend, when everything looked like the job was already given to someone, that friend of mine withdrawn their application and after some time was asked by the manager why did they do that, the job would be theirs if they kept their application in.

 

[Horizon22]

Is it rife? No. Does it exist? Yes. Probably in some places worse than others.

I don't think there's an industry out there where some form of nepotism doesn't exist a little bit. But I've seen it the other way too where a relative didn't get the job and they were given constructive feedback as to why.

 

[irish_rail]

It certainly can appear to be a family affair at some places. But look at it another way. The children or relatives of someone already in a grade will be getting some excellent advice on how to impress at interview etc. Id say its more this than just blindly giving jobs to relations. In most cases anyway......

 

[Leuvenn]

Absolutely. It feels endemic to the railways but I personally believe its just inevitable in any industry

Numerous anecdotal cases aside, the best example of the nepotism in the railways are in smaller stations/depots where vacancies are a rare occasion. This reflects the nature of the community, not necessarily the business.

Yet the issue is rife within higher management. During training, virtually nobody in the course or training us was hired off the street. Most had family, friends or spouses in other positions.
It's this aspect I find particularly damaging and often the one you'll hear frequently obfuscated.
It's also the only type of nepotism which is absent from most other industries. In hospitality, for example, a husband managing his wife will be grounds for dismissal but in the railway its very common.

 

[Neatro]

Nepotism used to be rife a long time a go in the railway it used to be very heavily recruited through family etc.

Now it's not so much, I'd say it's very similar to any other job where employees family's/friends etc CAN get preferential treatment but usually that's through inside advice or what to say etc.

I'd say your chances are as good as anybody internally or externally but it can feel unfavourable and start to question whether it's rigged not in your favour.

My advice would be to just keep applying and you'll be in eventually

 

[eSTeeSCe]

I’m not sure that it is.

I came to the railway from the Police and found a bit of attitude to the affect that if you’re not railway man and boy, you’re somehow lesser than someone else. But certainly seen no nepotism.

It’s a weird industry and I do think you have to work harder if you haven’t always been Railway.

Some of the best people I worked with recently were ex-aviation industry due to Covid.

 

[henke7]

When I first started at Network Rail, one of the first questions I was asked was “who do you know?” At the time I was puzzled but it started to make a lot more sense as the years have went. Going by the stories of others it’s not near as bad as it once was. As a previous poster has alluded to, they won’t get the job because they are related but it certainly helps if there’s a good chance you know what questions will be asked and how to answer them…

 

[Tevion539]

When I first started at Network Rail, one of the first questions I was asked was “who do you know?”

Funnily enough, in my interview in September, I was asked... "Who do you know that works on the railway?" I have a few people that I've connected with over the years from old colleagues who made the jump and just people I've met through forums and games.

I'd say it's very fair to assume it exists in some capacity.

 

[the sniper]

It certainly can appear to be a family affair at some places. But look at it another way. The children or relatives of someone already in a grade will be getting some excellent advice on how to impress at interview etc. Id say its more this than just blindly giving jobs to relations. In most cases anyway......

I agree with this.

I think from a recruitment point of view, there's an expectation that they know what they're getting into too. I think there's also a somewhat greater degree of accountability when they're related to somebody who's well respected, they're not just representing themselves. Of the relatives employed that I know, I think the vast majority do a very good job, probably as a group proportionally less variable than the collective of those who aren't, though that's a far larger pool.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

Certainly in the past, people I've known who had relatives in the same company (in a couple of cases a parent who was an LT Director) had to work harder to prove their worth to avoid people thinking they only got the job because of nepotism. In one case someone languished in a rather lowly position partly because managers were somewhat overcautious about promoting him.

 

[BTU]

Rife probably not but prevalent without a shadow of a doubt i've seen it time and time again and it really gets on my goat. I know of people who are in positions that they should not be in purely because they have a family member in place to give them the job worse than that they advertise jobs that they already have a shoe in for only because they have to be seen to be abiding by the rules, it wastes everybody time. This practice stinks and prevents people from having a fair crack at a job and it should be stamped out. I myself have applied for vacancies that I was infinitely more qualified than the person that got it only to later find out that they already had their man/woman. I could give very specific details that would make your toes curl. It's a practice that stinks and should be stopped, they point score a lot of vacancies but what difference does that make if you give people a heads up and score them higher because you know them? This is a hard industry to get into without this shaddy practice going on.

 

[bramling]

It's also the only type of nepotism which is absent from most other industries. In hospitality, for example, a husband managing his wife will be grounds for dismissal but in the railway it’s very common.

Don’t start me off on that one! I’ve come across it twice, one of which didn’t concern me directly, but the other example did, and it essentially led to a situation where there was an (obnoxious) abysmally performing manager who was subject to no performance management, and - worse - the usual mechanisms where staff could raise complaints against their manager were essentially worthless as in the first instance one would always be dealing with her husband. She was eventually ditched during a wider review when her role (and that of her husband) was declared surplus to requirements, they both went through the redeployment process and failed to find an alternative position so after the requisite time period simply rolled off the cliff. But this only after causing massive amounts of aggro for staff in the team. The manager concerned was next seen working in a clothes shop in Chelsea, couldn’t resist paying a little visit to the area some years later and dropping in to say hello!

The other example was a depot manager where the admin clerk was his wife, that was a grubby conflict of interest too, albeit unlike the first example there seemed to be some attempt at maintaining a professional distance.

On the wider issue of nepotism, I’d agree with the view expressed here that it isn’t massively widespread. For roles like driver the same technical test regime would apply and there’s no way of bypassing that. A family member would be expected to have some advantage in an interview as they would (should!) have a better knowledge of what the job involves, what the company does, et cetera. I’ve known this work both ways, some awful people who are frankly an embarrassment to their elder, but in the greater majority of cases there are also some pretty good staff especially drivers and signallers. You also tend to get a fair few cases of “father told him to apply just as a stop-gap, 40 years later he’s still there”.

It’s just one of those facts of life really, I don’t think the railway has any more of it than anywhere else.

 

[LCC106]

In terms of safety critical roles that require psychometric assessment passes, the relative or current guard still has to achieve the pass mark. So nepotism does exist to a degree, but they’re still subject to the two strikes and you’re out rule. One internal told me on the day of the psychometrics that she would get preference over me because I was off the street. Cue me as a new driver offering to make her a brew as she was my guard for part of the shift. If you’re internal, managers will also be considering attendance records, any incidents you may have had and how you dealt with them as well as general attitude.

 

[Leuvenn]

It’s just one of those facts of life really, I don’t think the railway has any more of it than anywhere else.

I couldn't disagree more. Its far more pronounced in the Railways than elsewhere.

Bristol is rife with family duos, some of which present serious difficulties to other members of staff. A TM from Bristol told me he found it impossible to get promoted as a dispatcher, despite having been a driver and remaining one of the hardest working people I know.

It's something the higher ups know about and are trying to address, which is why more often when applying for a job your met with:

"Please remove your name, address and any identifying details in your CV before submitting"

 

[Tevion539]

In terms of safety critical roles that require psychometric assessment passes, the relative or current guard still has to achieve the pass mark. So nepotism does exist to a degree, but they’re still subject to the two strikes and you’re out rule. One internal told me on the day of the psychometrics that she would get preference over me because I was off the street. Cue me as a new driver offering to make her a brew as she was my guard for part of the shift. If you’re internal, managers will also be considering attendance records, any incidents you may have had and how you dealt with them as well as general attitude.

Bet that left a sour taste in the internals mouth!

 

[Sly Sloth]

It’s not as bad as it used to be but it’s still there. But I’m sure it’s the same in many other industries

 

[NorthernTech]

In my first MMI I was asked TWICE who I knew worked for the company? Even though mmi is a psychometric test, I got asked if I knew anyone who worked there. I replied politely with ‘no one sorry’ to which she said rather abruptly ‘strange, most people at least know someone’. Later in the interview she asked a question where I answered mentioning the name of her colleague that interviewed me for the DMI. She then quickly asked me If I knew him?? This is in a psychometric test, not a normal type interview or DMI but MMI. I later found out they were being very friendly and helpful to some people, but not all it seems..

 

[Chucky]

It's fairly commonplace in my experience, and when internal jobs come up it's often an open secret as to who will get them before the interviews start. It's not just family ties, but also 'who you know' as well as the funny handshake club. Does it go on in other industries as well? Yes. Is it right? No.

 

[Token]

Absolutely. It feels endemic to the railways but I personally believe its just inevitable in any industry……
…….Yet the issue is rife within higher management. During training, virtually nobody in the course or training us was hired off the street. Most had family, friends or spouses in other positions.
It's this aspect I find particularly damaging and often the one you'll hear frequently obfuscated.
It's also the only type of nepotism which is absent from most other industries. In hospitality, for example, a husband managing his wife will be grounds for dismissal but in the railway its very common.

Possibly a throwback from BR days. You see a lot of it across the public sector as a whole, where known quantities will already have got the job even before the advert goes out.