Is the ECML boring?

[TGV]

I think the truth is that both EC and WC lines have dull parts and interesting parts. The WCML scenery in the Lake District and Southern Scotland up to Lanark is pretty. As is the ECML between the border area and Edinburgh. But so are the Fens between Peterborough and Huntingdon. If you know the area, you'll know the line passes within a few hundred yards of Holme Fen Posts - the lowest point in the UK which itself is a spectacular natural nature reserve.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Think the ECML from London to Edinburgh, is one of the great railway journeys of the world. Great city views at York, Durham and Newcastle. Traditional English countryside between London and Doncaster. A good urban send off through north London. And what fanstastic scenery north of Newcastle !

The other year, took some american pals on this service and was a thoroughly enjoyable introduction to what we have to offer outside London. They loved the anglo-scottish thing and we also had a memorable (and somewhat boozy) meal in the restaurant car for the trip back from Edinburgh.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

My own personal game is to see if it's possible to spot Lincoln Cathedral as you pass south of Newark.
O L Leigh

You can see Lincoln Cathedral tower from the GC line past West Burton Power Station - about 20 miles as the crow flies and half an hour after leaving Lincoln.

If the fens are boring from an IC225, they're even more so in an EMT 158 with high seat backs so you can't see those "wide skies"...

 

[LE Greys]

The only really boring lines I've ever been on (not counting those in tunnels) were LGVs Nord and Est in France. Northern France is mostly dead flat with no signs of anything to break up the landscape. Of course, there were no stations to break this up, we avoided towns, and villages were hidden behind sound-proof fencing. Other than that, we had a nice view of an Autoroute half the time (only interesting when a Ferrari overtook our speeding Eurostar). Farther east, whenever anything vaguely interesting seemed to appear, the line disappeared into a cutting.

Compared to that, the regular stations, changing scenery, occasional overtakes of a 365 or a goods, and the odd nice bridge are positively fascinating. The only bit that ever bores me is more out of frustration, the annoyingly slow section between Berwick and Dunbar. Having seen it a thousand times, I just wish they could zoom through it like a Pendy between Lockerbie and Motherwell. Still, we can't have everything, and the bridges make up for it. It is the "Great Bridges Route" after all.

 

[Jonny]

Bits of the ECML are pretty good; the further north you get the better it gets IMHO. Also all the flat land would make a brilliant route for a high-speed line. HS3 to Newcastle and Scotland anyone?

Oh wait, I forgot, Network Rail have other ideas...

 

[The Barlow Boy]

My Gran used to say that only boring people get bored.

 

[asylumxl]

My Gran used to say that only boring people get bored.

Maybe your gran was boring? And if you say she wasn't, maybe that's because you're boring? And if your parents and friends think you're not boring, maybe they're boring too?

You get the idea .

 

[Flywaver]

As a Driver i knew KX to Hitchin and i sign P,Boro to grantham on the ECML.
I think the boredom point of view is that north of P,Boro its like a Motorway drive untill you hit Stoke Tunnel. The overhead gantrys give you a caged in feel.
If your stuck on any route as so many TOCs are for Drivers its going to get monotonous.
As for the Fens it does give a bleak look on a grey day. At night its tiresome on the last ones. But even in winter you look across and see thousands of migrated Whooper/Berwick Swans feeding off sugar beet tops. You normally see a few Barn Owls. Welney is flooded over right now and that always gets passengers gazing out in awe! The wind farms now give Whittlesea a feature...

 

[telstarbox]

When long stretches of motorways and dual carriageways are designed, there are good design practices which provide visual variety, keeping drivers alert to reduce the chances of people crashing, such as:
- Gentle curves every few miles
- Using different materials/concrete finishes every few miles
- Areas of trees to provide visual variety
- Keeping sightlines to landmarks (cathedrals, masts, etc) clear

Are there similar measures to stop drivers getting bored/losing focus on the long flat stretches on the ECML, south of Doncaster in particular?

 

[jon0844]

Fallen overhead wires?

So interesting that many trains can't help but stop to look.

 

[Zoe]

Are there similar measures to stop drivers getting bored/losing focus on the long flat stretches on the ECML, south of Doncaster in particular?

It's not just the ECML, the Berks and Hants line between Reading and Cogload Junction is known as "the desert" as it is largely devoid of intersting features. I'd be interested to know what is done to prevent drivers slipping into "zombie mode" though.

 

[Flywaver]

We are just told to have plenty of water and fruit. I normally take fruit.
Also the DSD is there along with Zombie mode...

 

[LE Greys]

As a Driver i knew KX to Hitchin and i sign P,Boro to grantham on the ECML.
I think the boredom point of view is that north of P,Boro its like a Motorway drive untill you hit Stoke Tunnel. The overhead gantrys give you a caged in feel.
If your stuck on any route as so many TOCs are for Drivers its going to get monotonous.

Funny how things change. That used to be a stiff climb going up and a chance of 100 mph going down in steam days. One of the most challenging parts of the line.

 

[RichW1]

I think the interest was as much at the trackside in the past with sidings and industry but with that gone virtually in totality from the ECML, it's lost its appeal. The West Coast still plenty lineside to keep me interested and you go through a large urban corridor in northwest England and then Cumbria and into Glasgow.

I remember the variety of trains on the ECML 'dirty diesels' used to interest me and small things like the sidings in the Fens at Woodwalton. All gone though. When York sidings were disused not all that long ago, they fell into ruins and now half has been re-developed. It's all quite sad on a sentimental note. Combine York with Newcastle's tracklifting and layout now; it's all very boring really. Railways are about a much more high-tech approach and operational strategy. The bits at the trackside and in stations and sidings have all gone and arguably, that's what made railways interesting. Character has gone and has with everything largely.

 

[TGV]

If you read all the responses above its clear nothing is boring. Some of you like countryside and wildlife, some like urban landscapes, other like sidings or interaction with other lines or roads. In which case the simple answer is "it depends".

To the person who got overtaken by a Ferrari while on LGV Nord - if the train was at line speed then the car must have been doing 190mph+ in which case knowing Ferraris, it would last about 20 miles at that speed before either blowing up or running out of fuel. Either way, I can bet you got to your destination first!

 

[LE Greys]

To the person who got overtaken by a Ferrari while on LGV Nord - if the train was at line speed then the car must have been doing 190mph+ in which case knowing Ferraris, it would last about 20 miles at that speed before either blowing up or running out of fuel. Either way, I can bet you got to your destination first!

Yes, we were at full line speed. I think I saw it again a few minutes later, just plodding along with the traffic. Probably just somebody showing off to whoever else happened to be in the car.

 

[Techniquest]

I've read the first few pages of this thread, but don't think I read it all. In reply to the thread title:

Definitely. Kings Cross to Darlington is dreadfully dull. After that, the scenery improves somewhat thankfully. Mind you, the Berks and Hants really is as bad. My Goodness, what a dull and boring stretch of railway! Although Warminster to Salisbury, that's a snoozefest too!

I suppose there's lots of boring sections on all areas of the network, however the winner's got to be East Anglia. So flat and boring, it's unbelievable!

 

[heart-of-wessex]

I've read the first few pages of this thread, but don't think I read it all. In reply to the thread title:

Definitely. Kings Cross to Darlington is dreadfully dull. After that, the scenery improves somewhat thankfully. Mind you, the Berks and Hants really is as bad. My Goodness, what a dull and boring stretch of railway! Although Warminster to Salisbury, that's a snoozefest too!

I suppose there's lots of boring sections on all areas of the network, however the winner's got to be East Anglia. So flat and boring, it's unbelievable!

I can echo that! Across the border is fine but the ECML is the overall misery line winner, flat, not much urban to see out of London and the only building usually in sight is the odd house in the middle of no-where...apart from towns/stations that you pass.

Now, you'd think I'd count the GEML but the main drag is Diss to Norwich, and that is short in comparison (though I did literally fall asleep when watching a cab ride between Diss and Norwich!)

Warminster to Salisbury is dull, but enjoyable compared to a KX - Edinburgh ECML trip that's for sure!

 

[Techniquest]

Agreed on your final sentence, definitely. Liverpool Street to Norwich, now that really is boring. Diss to Norwich being the least interesting bit, sleep inducing for certain. It took some doing to avoid falling asleep on that section when I went to the MNR last year!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Naaah - Crossrail's boring (at least, it's about ruddy time they started boring...BOOM, BOOM!).

Actually, Crossrail construction work starts in my locality as of this month. The road signs are up and the diversionary rush-hour gridlock should be happening soon...

 

[junglejames]

ECML, not boring in my opinion, and North of York is quite interesting. Love the racing stretch north of York, and the coast north of Newcastle is lovely. But in total agreement to Zoe (now that must be a first, make a note of it!) the WCML is more interesting, and definitely my favourite out of the 2, but I always use the ECML because 4hrs on a pendo is just about 4hrs too long!
Only use the WCML if on the sleeper.
I am getting worried though, because on my 5 short trips on the pendos recently, I started to get used to the horrible dreary interior, and the windows! Just the seats i couldnt get used to. Saying that, it did amaze me how travelling on the sleeper in the middle of the night, and I still saw more scenary than i do on a pendo!!

Zoe, you said you got sick if you cant see where your going? Are you one of these that has to face the direction of travel? Saw a woman and her boyfriend move seat the other day, when they realised the train reversed direction at Shrub Hill! She had to face the direction of travel otherwise it made her ill! Saying that, wasnt you was it Zoe!! lol

People here complaining about East Anglia. I like the flat fens. The GEML is brilliant (or is it the 90s and Mk3s doing that!!), and I also like the Wherry Lines. Fantastic little lines they are.

 

[Zoe]

Zoe, you said you got sick if you cant see where your going? Are you one of these that has to face the direction of travel? Saw a woman and her boyfriend move seat the other day, when they realised the train reversed direction at Shrub Hill! She had to face the direction of travel otherwise it made her ill! Saying that, wasnt you was it Zoe!! lol

No, it wasn't and yes I do have to face the direction of travel. Another reason for my dislike of advance fares as although you can specify a seat, you can't guarantree which way the train will be running and it is a requirment that you sit in your booked seat.

 

[paulb1973]

Only did the Berks & Hants twice (ages ago in the mid 90's) and that is fairly featureless. On the WCML there are some quite large stations and a significant number of sidings, yards and depots to offer up some interest to the traveller, especially on the southern sections.

 

[GNER 373]

Is the ECML boring....No! Is the the WCML boring, for most parts! It all depends on how much you travel past the same scenery I suppose, both have pros and cons, but I think the good old ECML shades it overall!