Is the Kensington Olympia LU branch part of the 4 Lines Modernisation?

[Odyssey]

Just got round to watching the first episode of series 4 of Secrets of the London Underground which covers Kensington Olympia at the end. Made me wonder, is the Kensington Olympia District Line branch part of the TfL 4 Lines Modernisation Programme (4LM)? Linked to this, are District Line trains on the branch running on Grade of Automation 2 (GoA2)? Will they in the future? Or will they be manually driven for the foreseeable future?
With all the recent cuts and (indefinite?) postponements to 4LM just curious about where the Kensington Olympia branch fits in?

 

[starlight73]

Yes. District trains to Olympia are already driven by CBTC as far as I know

 

[swt_passenger]

Completed in 2022, I found it mentioned in the London Underground sub-forum here:

Circle line train braking

I was on a circle line train today that fluffed pretty much every stop, stopping then having to move on a bit before the doors opened and braking so hard it sent passengers to the grab rails a few times. Is this likely to be something like a new driver finding their feet or a system issue?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[rebmcr]

It's not a difficult problem, because the tracks are fully separate from the Overground's there.

 

[starlight73]

since the branch has so little service (only regular service is at weekends) I’m wondering why they still upgraded the signalling. My guesses are:

1. it was controlled from the same interlocking machine room as the mainline, so it had to go (Wikipedia doesn’t have an IMR listed for Olympia)
2. it’s useful to short trip trains in disruption (think of the dreaded announcement, “The destination of this train has now changed!! This is now a: District! line, train to: Olympia!!”)
3. the plan was originally to convert the entire line to CBTC and that would avoid problems with transitioning signalling and maintaining legacy equipment

 

[thomalex]

since the branch has so little service (only regular service is at weekends) I’m wondering why they still upgraded the signalling. My guesses are:

1. it was controlled from the same interlocking machine room as the mainline, so it had to go (Wikipedia doesn’t have an IMR listed for Olympia)
2. it’s useful to short trip trains in disruption (think of the dreaded announcement, “The destination of this train has now changed!! This is now a: District! line, train to: Olympia!!”)
3. the plan was originally to convert the entire line to CBTC and that would avoid problems with transitioning signalling and maintaining legacy equipment

I’m curious what’s going to happen when the major Olympia development opens next year. Could we see an increased service as surely there will be a lot more people travelling to this destination.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

since the branch has so little service (only regular service is at weekends) I’m wondering why they still upgraded the signalling. My guesses are:

1. it was controlled from the same interlocking machine room as the mainline, so it had to go (Wikipedia doesn’t have an IMR listed for Olympia)
2. it’s useful to short trip trains in disruption (think of the dreaded announcement, “The destination of this train has now changed!! This is now a: District! line, train to: Olympia!!”)
3. the plan was originally to convert the entire line to CBTC and that would avoid problems with transitioning signalling and maintaining legacy equipment

Isn't the branch to Olympia used for access to the depot (being the reason for the few daytime services)?

 

[rebmcr]

Isn't the branch to Olympia used for access to the depot (being the reason for the few daytime services)?

Lillie Bridge depot can be accessed from both Kensington (Olympia) and from West Kensington.

 

[Dstock7080]

Lillie Bridge depot can be accessed from both Kensington (Olympia) and from West Kensington.

Planned for future closure, with new sidings at Chiswick Park and slight expansion of Parsons Green.

 

[starlight73]

I’m curious what’s going to happen when the major Olympia development opens next year. Could we see an increased service as surely there will be a lot more people travelling to this destination.

I believe the Olympia service was cut back because of conflicting movements. Olympia-bound services would come from High St Kensington and have to

1. Cross over Wimbledon bound services (Earl’s Court)
2. Merge with trains from Tower Hill (Earl’s Court)
3. Cross over east-bound trains that are heading to Earl’s Court (West Kensington East (?) Junction)

It would be a useful step-free interchange from westbound district trains to the Overground (northbound), as West Brompton doesn’t have step-free access for the westbound district.

But as a non-specialist, I’d be surprised if they bring it back …


Good point about Lille Bridge depot upthread!

 

[swt_passenger]

I think the Olympia service was canned because the resignalling end state assumed of the planned 30? tph each way through Earls Court half would go to Wimbledon, and half to Richmond/Ealing Broadway, and there were no paths or trains left to allow Olympia as well?

 

[Class15]

Planned for future closure, with new sidings at Chiswick Park and slight expansion of Parsons Green.

That’s not a good idea I don’t think. In a growing city with growing passenger numbers on the tube, depots shouldn’t be being closed.

 

[Dstock7080]

Weekday regular District services to/from Olympia were withdrawn 11 December 2011, well before the 4LM project.
A ‘certain exhibitions only’ service continued for a while after, diverting C Stock from the Edgware Road service to Olympia.
At the time a statement was made that Olympia’s had been withdrawn to provide a better service to Wimbledon, at the request from the local MP for Wimbledon. D Stock operated a shuttle to High Street Kensington.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I believe the Olympia service was cut back because of conflicting movements. Olympia-bound services would come from High St Kensington and have to

1. Cross over Wimbledon bound services (Earl’s Court)
2. Merge with trains from Tower Hill (Earl’s Court)
3. Cross over east-bound trains that are heading to Earl’s Court (West Kensington East (?) Junction)

It would be a useful step-free interchange from westbound district trains to the Overground (northbound), as West Brompton doesn’t have step-free access for the westbound district.

But as a non-specialist, I’d be surprised if they bring it back …


Good point about Lille Bridge depot upthread!

Surely they don't cross over Wimbledon-bound services at Earls Court. They arrive on the southern-most platform at EC via a tunnel, on the same line as the Wimbledon-bound services from Edgware Road. After leaving EC they cross to the adjacent line in order to be able to head "west" rather than having to turn "south" - but they're joining a line with trains which have arrived from the trunk section, many of which are going west anyway. It's surely only then that a significant conflict arises, when an Olympia-bound service has to cross, on the level, the route coming the other way from West Ken to Earls Court? But the eastbound Districts at that point are not so frequent (currently anyway) as to preclude that. I certainly think the shuttle to Olympia is incredibly useful, both to reach, by Underground, a busy corner of London, and also - as has been said - to provide an easy interchange with northbound Overgrounds. The coming of a major interchange at OOC might make that connection even more useful (especially for passengers heading from the District trunk route to OOC).

 

[Dstock7080]

Surely they don't cross over Wimbledon-bound services at Earls Court. They arrive on the southern-most platform at EC via a tunnel, on the same line as the Wimbledon-bound services from Edgware Road. After leaving EC they cross to the adjacent line in order to be able to head "west" rather than having to turn "south" - but they're joining a line with trains which have arrived from the trunk section, many of which are going west anyway. It's surely only then that a significant conflict arises, when an Olympia-bound service has to cross, on the level, the route coming the other way from West Ken to Earls Court? But the eastbound Districts at that point are not so frequent (currently anyway) as to preclude that.

An Olympia train in platform 4 would cut across any train ex-City (Wimbledon/Ealing/Richmond) in platform 3.
It would invariably wait at West Kensington junction for an eastbound train to pass, or run freely and delay said eastbound trains.

 

[Route115?]

I suspect that the reason may be commercial. The layover times are longer than the time the running time between Hight St Kensington & Olympia and the passenger loads are generally low - but with surges for exhibitions. If short of resources it will be the service to be cut first. It requires two trains in service to provide a reasonable service.

 

[Dstock7080]

It requires two trains in service to provide a reasonable service.

Just before withdrawal of the weekday service one train was operated during peak hours but with stepping back of drivers at High Street Kensington. The platform waiting room was converted into a staff room.
During certain exhibitions in the 1980s (Beer Festival; Winter Horse Show) a three train service was provided with each train scheduled to have the bare minimum of 4min layovers at each end!

 

[Taunton]

At the time a statement was made that Olympia’s had been withdrawn to provide a better service to Wimbledon, at the request from the local MP for Wimbledon. D Stock operated a shuttle to High Street Kensington.

I think it was the MP for Putney (along the Wimbledon branch) of the time, who had become the Secretary for Transport shortly beforehand, and who took excessive credit for this with their constituents.