Island Line Upgrade

45669

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Contrary to some reports, it hadn't failed. They were doing evacuation training.

I've just checked Realtime Trains and it says that train services start on Sunday the 19th September. The first down train is 2D05 at 06.45 from Pier Head. I hope they've got that right, or is it just wishful thinking?
 
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Chris125

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I've just checked Realtime Trains and it says that train services start on Sunday the 19th September. The first down train is 2D05 at 06.45 from Pier Head. I hope they've got that right, or is it just wishful thinking?

From what's being said months sounds more likely than weeks sadly, both infrastructure and rolling stock to sort out.
 

45669

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According to the National Train Enquiries website, I can get a train from Pier Head to Shanklin on Monday the 20th. However, looking at the small print, it says:

'If you are travelling from 19 September onwards, this information is not currently showing correctly in the Journey Planner - please check back closer to the date of travel.'
 

XAM2175

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I've just checked Realtime Trains and it says that train services start on Sunday the 19th September. The first down train is 2D05 at 06.45 from Pier Head. I hope they've got that right, or is it just wishful thinking?
RTT is showing the paths that have been entered by SWR for the service to use. There's absolutely zero guarantee that they'll actually run, until you hear it from SWR themselves.
 

Gloster

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...until you hear it from SWR themselves.
Or from someone else. SWR has not exactly deserved praise for the way it has (or has not) kept the public (and many of its staff) informed. The situation may be fluid (particularly when there has been rain), but at least some information should be available.
 

swt_passenger

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RTT is showing the paths that have been entered by SWR for the service to use. There's absolutely zero guarantee that they'll actually run, until you hear it from SWR themselves.
There was a similar discussion end of July, there were services in RTT from 1st August as late as 23rd July. I’d put my money on deletion in the next few days.
 

Chris125

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Yesterday's events on Railcam:


Not the most dignified job! Wouldn't be fun climbing down that ladder on a stormy night...

 

Gloster

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The County Press is now reporting that the software problems have still not been solved and there is no date for reopening. SWR seems keen to push the blame for the continuing delay towards Vivarail.
 

Goldfish62

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The County Press is now reporting that the software problems have still not been solved and there is no date for reopening. SWR seems keen to push the blame for the continuing delay towards Vivarail.
Do you have a link? I've looked under County Press and can't find anything.

Was it not the County Press that was speculating that the trains were to heavy to run on the pier...?
 

Gloster

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Do you have a link? I've looked under County Press and can't find anything.

Was it not the County Press that was speculating that the trains were to heavy to run on the pier...?
I can’t do a link (sorry, mods, but that is the truth), but it is on the front page of the site .iwcp.co.uk under Island line software problems still not fixed as trains face continued delay .
 

swt_passenger

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45669

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RTT is showing the paths that have been entered by SWR for the service to use. There's absolutely zero guarantee that they'll actually run, until you hear it from SWR themselves.

Does the above also apply to the RTT entries prior to the 19th September? Trains are shown to be running as empty stock (as Class 483 units!) all day long between Ryde St. John's Road and Shanklin. Presumably these are test trains or crew training / route learning trains.

But do they actually happen?
 

Gloster

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The fixed Distant (#996) is back at the north end of the old platform at Esplanade. Below it is a black signal identification plate marked WFP 1 R: at the top of this is an arrow pointing up to the Distant above it. This also suggests that the buffer-stop light is now numbered WFP 1.

It appears that the RRB to Haven Street is now a minibus, strengthened by taxis if need be. It is not clear who is operating the main RRB now as it seems to use various operators’ buses. There were reports that, as Xelabus’ vehicles normally only did school-runs, they were having reliability problems when faced with a long daily-grind.
 

DelW

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The Haven Street connection yesterday (Sat 11th) was indeed a Ford Transit minibus.

The noon departure from Esplanade was full with the driver apparently calling a taxi for a group of four who were left behind.

The 16.30 (final) return trip left at 16.20 as by then the minibus was already full up. I don't know whether there was any provision made for anyone who might have arrived at the pick up point after it left.

One advantage of the minibus is that it can pass under the bridge at Haven Street station, so can use a direct route to and from Ryde. The bigger buses had to make quite a long detour via Wootton.
 

Chris125

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Presumably these are test trains or crew training / route learning trains.

But do they actually happen?

They've been out seemingly every day (bar sundays?) for the last two weeks, now using a pair passing at Brading - not necessarily matching the timings mind.

One advantage of the minibus is that it can pass under the bridge at Haven Street station, so can use a direct route to and from Ryde. The bigger buses had to make quite a long detour via Wootton.

I thought Double Deckers did go through Havenstreet many years ago?
 

DelW

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I thought Double Deckers did go through Havenstreet many years ago?
Google Streetview shows the height restriction as 4m / 13' 3" for a vehicle in the middle of the arch. Maybe older and/or "lowbridge" type double deckers might have fitted? I'd have thought most single deckers would be ok, but when I used the Haven Street RRB earlier this year, it was run by a double decker. That certainly ran via the main road through Wootton Bridge and then past Wootton station, and approached Haven Street from the west.
 

Gloster

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As far as I can remember from seeing it go through the village, it was a double-decker until a month or so ago, when Xelabus took over and normally used a single-decker. Both seemed to be a ridiculous over capacity every time I saw it.
 

Ianno87

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That's just the timing load. I don't suppose 484 timings have been verified yet.

Presumably because there's nothing to be gained by using (presumably slightly faster) 484 timings - it makes no real difference to how the timetable works, other than maybe being slightly earlier arriving/ later departing the two termini.
 

Gloster

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There have been reports that the maximum speed for a 484 in Ryde Tunnel may have to be slightly lower than that of the 483 because of their dynamic envelope (?), so lengthening the end-to-end times. As there were plenty of doom sayers claiming that the 484 wouldn’t even fit through the tunnel, I have to take this with a certain amount of salt, but it could be another problem. Another problem that may add to that is the possibility that the 484 take longer to boot up every time the driver changes ends. A very uncorroborated report said that the 484 could do the return journey in an hour, but with virtually no recovery time.
 

Ianno87

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There have been reports that the maximum speed for a 484 in Ryde Tunnel may have to be slightly lower than that of the 483 because of their dynamic envelope (?), so lengthening the end-to-end times. As there were plenty of doom sayers claiming that the 484 wouldn’t even fit through the tunnel, I have to take this with a certain amount of salt, but it could be another problem. Another problem that may add to that is the possibility that the 484 take longer to boot up every time the driver changes ends. A very uncorroborated report said that the 484 could do the return journey in an hour, but with virtually no recovery time.

The obvious difference with 484s is having passenger information screen to set up before each trip - the 483s did not have this problem (one end said "Ryde", the other said "Shanklin" and that was it!)
 

cav1975

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I thought Double Deckers did go through Havenstreet many years ago?
The height limit below the bridge was reduced a few years ago. Not sure who decided but since then double deckers have effectively been prohibited - even the open toppers that used to run through when there was a route 43. The actual clearance to the road hasn't changed.
 

45669

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They've been out seemingly every day (bar sundays?) for the last two weeks, now using a pair passing at Brading - not necessarily matching the timings mind.
That's interesting. I shall be on The Island later this month, so I'll have to look out for them.
 

A0wen

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There have been reports that the maximum speed for a 484 in Ryde Tunnel may have to be slightly lower than that of the 483 because of their dynamic envelope (?), so lengthening the end-to-end times. As there were plenty of doom sayers claiming that the 484 wouldn’t even fit through the tunnel, I have to take this with a certain amount of salt, but it could be another problem. Another problem that may add to that is the possibility that the 484 take longer to boot up every time the driver changes ends. A very uncorroborated report said that the 484 could do the return journey in an hour, but with virtually no recovery time.

The tunnel is 400 yards long on a stretch between Esplanade and St John's which is only 1474 yards.

Even if they had to take the tunnel at walking pace the effect on timings would be pretty negligible.
 

CunningPlan

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The height limit below the bridge was reduced a few years ago. Not sure who decided but since then double deckers have effectively been prohibited - even the open toppers that used to run through when there was a route 43. The actual clearance to the road hasn't changed.
I believe the issue came after the road through Havenstreet was resurfaced. IIRC (as this must be around 2 decades ago now) the basic problem was that the old surface under the railway bridge wasn't removed before they slapped a new layer of tarmac on top. The next day when the road reopened several service buses - which had fit perfectly under the arch just a few days earlier - scraped their top corners.

Why the council or Southern Vectis didn't demand the contractors make good and return the road to its previous condition and advertised clearances I don't know, but after that, new (slightly lower) height warnings went up and that was the end of Havenstreet's hourly (or better) bus service. It couldn't support its own route without subsidy, and those subsidies dried up a few years later, leaving the village and station with no bus service at all.

All of this makes running a Rail Replacement Bus between Havenstreet and Ryde rather challenging.

(getting back on topic)
Apparently a new date for services starting has been mostly-confirmed. 1st November.

Given where test running is at I'd say this is the most believable-looking date officially given so far. If it actually happens, then it will have taken a 10 month shutdown to achieve what was supposed to be done within 3. I know once everyone actually gets to ride it the delay will fade in our collective memory but it's not good.
 

AlbertBeale

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I believe the issue came after the road through Havenstreet was resurfaced. IIRC (as this must be around 2 decades ago now) the basic problem was that the old surface under the railway bridge wasn't removed before they slapped a new layer of tarmac on top. The next day when the road reopened several service buses - which had fit perfectly under the arch just a few days earlier - scraped their top corners.

Why the council or Southern Vectis didn't demand the contractors make good and return the road to its previous condition and advertised clearances I don't know, but after that, new (slightly lower) height warnings went up and that was the end of Havenstreet's hourly (or better) bus service. It couldn't support its own route without subsidy, and those subsidies dried up a few years later, leaving the village and station with no bus service at all.

All of this makes running a Rail Replacement Bus between Havenstreet and Ryde rather challenging.

Are there no single-deckers on the island?
 

CunningPlan

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Are there no single-deckers on the island?
Very few if any these days. The former Wightbus operation (which shut down for entirely political reasons around a decade ago) almost exclusively used single deckers on their routes but they are now long gone; Southern Vectis have moved to pretty much exclusively using double deckers. The only exception would be for any buses serving the Cowes Red Jet terminal which has always needed single deckers due to a severe height restriction - but I believe SV no longer serve the terminal itself and the route now ends at the previous stop where there is a turning circle... So no need for any single deckers anywhere on their current network.
 

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