Isle of Man Heritage Railways lose £3.5m in 2024

[John Luxton]

It appears that Isle of Man Railways have not had a good year in 2024 with losses of £3.5million reported. However, the nationalised operation is credited with adding £17 million to the Island's economy. A review is underway. This follows on the heels of a Systra Review last year. Weather and additional spending (£5.7M) have been blamed for the deficit. Putting things into context of other transport spending the IoM Government has been criticised for overspend on the new Liverpool Passenger Terminal and have had to raise income tax this year.

Isle of Man's heritage railway attractions lose £3.5m in a year as review underway

But it’s estimated the attractions benefit the Manx economy by around £17m a year

www.iomtoday.co.im

"The Isle of Man’s railways suffered £3.5m losses in the last year.
The Department of Infrastructure (DOI) development plan for 2024-25 has revealed the heritage lines, which includes the steam railway, electric trams and horse trams, generated £2.2m but expenditure ran to £5.7m which means they ended £2.25m in the red."

 

[Krokodil]

Have they got that green contraption working yet?

 

[DarloRich]

IoM Government has been criticised for overspend on the new Liverpool Passenger Terminal and have had to raise income tax this year.

i bet that is more than £3.5m over budget!

Have they got that green contraption working yet?

what does that mean?

 

[Krokodil]

what does that mean?

That locomotive they spent millions on a few years ago. No. 21?

 

[brad465]

When I was there in September I ended up having to miss doing the steam railway as I didn't have enough time; I did the tram network up to Snaefell as well as a couple of cycle rides (including a full island circuit), but 4 days wasn't enough to experience the whole place. I doubt I'd have given the steam railway £3.5m, but I may regret missing it if it closed down before a future visit. I wasn't interested in doing the horse tram.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are the staff on these lines all paid?

 

[Krokodil]

Are the staff on these lines all paid?

Yes, IoMSR Supporters Association and MER Society volunteers don't have any role in operations or the railways' engineering. They're more akin to Community Rail groups who keep stations tidy as well as staffing the museums and building the replica heritage wagons.

The Groudle Glen Railway is a volunteer-run 'heritage railway' in the sense that we know them in the UK.

 

[John Luxton]

When I was there in September I ended up having to miss doing the steam railway as I didn't have enough time; I did the tram network up to Snaefell as well as a couple of cycle rides (including a full island circuit), but 4 days wasn't enough to experience the whole place. I doubt I'd have given the steam railway £3.5m, but I may regret missing it if it closed down before a future visit. I wasn't interested in doing the horse tram.

It is the entire state owned rail network which lost the £3.5m not solely the steam railway.

 

[Skymonster]

When I was there in September I ended up having to miss doing the steam railway… I may regret missing it if it closed down before a future visit. I wasn't interested in doing the horse tram.

I believe the most “at risk” component is the Manx Electric beyond Laxey up to Ramsey. There were proposals put forward to turn it into a cycleway - it is the lightest used section of the MER but also IMHO the more scenic - which thankfully have come to nought so far. While the loss must be concerning, I’d be very surprised if anything did close down in the short term, especially not the Steam Railway (or the Horse Tram) - as pointed out above, the heritage rail operations bring quite a lot of tourist pounds to the island.

The Go Explore card offers amazing value for money as it includes all regular bus services and the heritage operations. For those of us interested primarily in the latter, its way cheaper than paying as you go. I hesitate to suggest the demise of a great deal, but I reckon the price could be increased quite a bit and most visitors would still buy.

I’m already booked for next summer’s Transport Festival and am looking forward to again riding the Manx Electric Railway, the Snae Fell Mountain Railway, the Steam Railway, the Groudle Glen Railway, the Laxey Mine Railway and the Horse Tram. I’ll also go to the Motor Museum at Jurby and ride on the local buses - the single deck Citaros are a quite nice ride when the weather isn’t so great. Oh, and they brew some really good beer!

 

[brad465]

It is the entire state owned rail network which lost the £3.5m not solely the steam railway.

I may have poorly worded this, but I did allude to that by referring to my use/non-use of the other relevant attractions.

I believe the most “at risk” component is the Manx Electric beyond Laxey up to Ramsey. There were proposals put forward to turn it into a cycleway - it is the lightest used section of the MER but also IMHO the more scenic - which thankfully have come to nought so far. While the loss must be concerning, I’d be very surprised if anything did close down in the short term, especially not the Steam Railway (or the Horse Tram) - as pointed out above, the heritage rail operations bring quite a lot of tourist pounds to the island.

The Go Explore card offers amazing value for money as it includes all regular bus services and the heritage operations. For those of us interested primarily in the latter, its way cheaper than paying as you go. I hesitate to suggest the demise of a great deal, but I reckon the price could be increased quite a bit and most visitors would still buy.

I’m already booked for next summer’s Transport Festival and am looking forward to again riding the Manx Electric Railway, the Snae Fell Mountain Railway, the Steam Railway, the Groudle Glen Railway, the Laxey Mine Railway and the Horse Tram. I’ll also go to the Motor Museum at Jurby and ride on the local buses - the single deck Citaros are a quite nice ride when the weather isn’t so great. Oh, and they brew some really good beer!

I'm not surprised Laxey to Ramsey is least used: Douglas has a much greater market with a larger population and hotel volume, with many of the customers wanting to go up to Snaefell more than onto Ramsey. I certainly didn't do the Ramsey bit, while my circuit of the island covered off that part in terms of scenery given the road closely follows the tram link.

 

[Western 52]

Is the MER a UNESCO World Heritage site? If so can they actually close any of it?

 

[simonw]

Is the MER a UNESCO World Heritage site? If so can they actually close any of it?

Being a world heritage site doesn't give protection against closure.

 

[Western 52]

Being a world heritage site doesn't give protection against closure.

Surely it implies some form of preservation is required though?

 

[stuu]

Surely it implies some form of preservation is required though?

I can't speak for the Isle of Man but in the UK being a WHS has absolutely no legal standing

 

[godfreycomplex]

I can't speak for the Isle of Man but in the UK being a WHS has absolutely no legal standing

Same on the Island

I don’t think the Laxey - Ramsey section is at serious risk under the current government, so Ramsey-centric are they that the common saying on the island is “if it’s south of Dhoon Glen, they’re not interested”

Suffice to say that said current government were severely embarrassed by the Systra report proving the generally known fact that the railways put considerably more into Manx society (or the Manx economy, if you want to think of it that way) than they take out, and have been looking for every opportunity to discredit the railways in the public eye ever since.

Have they got that green contraption working yet?

It does work very well

As a fine way of keeping the pile of bricks it’s currently sat on out of the rain, that is

As a locomotive, however…

 

[D Williams]

Same on the Island

I don’t think the Laxey - Ramsey section is at serious risk under the current government, so Ramsey-centric are they that the common saying on the island is “if it’s south of Dhoon Glen, they’re not interested”

Suffice to say that said current government were severely embarrassed by the Systra report proving the generally known fact that the railways put considerably more into Manx society (or the Manx economy, if you want to think of it that way) than they take out, and have been looking for every opportunity to discredit the railways in the public eye ever since.


It does work very well

As a fine way of keeping the pile of bricks it’s currently sat on out of the rain, that is

As a locomotive, however…

Was this ever accepted into traffic and was it paid for? Or is it now the subject of a long running legal action?

 

[godfreycomplex]

Was this ever accepted into traffic and was it paid for? Or is it now the subject of a long running legal action?

Pass

I know some work on it was done under warranty (the engine replacement for one, as the original tended to overheat), but as to the more recent work I don’t know. It has worked, but not since 2019 when one of the axles “snapped like a breadstick”, apparently.

 

[Gostav]

I guess the biggest issue is that using such old trams for high frequency service throughout the whole line is not sustainable, l noticed this summer that how the wooden frames of those old trams were very loose and looked in desperate need of major repairs, and for the general visitors, sitting on the wooden benches for a journey of more than an hour is really not comfortable.

 

[John Luxton]

I may have poorly worded this, but I did allude to that by referring to my use/non-use of the other relevant attractions.

I'm not surprised Laxey to Ramsey is least used: Douglas has a much greater market with a larger population and hotel volume, with many of the customers wanting to go up to Snaefell more than onto Ramsey. I certainly didn't do the Ramsey bit, while my circuit of the island covered off that part in terms of scenery given the road closely follows the tram link.

The Laxey to Ramsey section is the most scenic with the run along the cliffs at Bulgham being quite spectacular. The road my be close by but the tracks are even closer particularly southbound.

I guess the biggest issue is that using such old trams for high frequency service throughout the whole line is not sustainable, l noticed this summer that how the wooden frames of those old trams were very loose and looked in desperate need of major repairs, and for the general visitors, sitting on the wooden benches for a journey of more than an hour is really not comfortable.

Something else that can happen with wooden bodies cars that flex is they can pinch your arms if like me you tend to rest them one on the wooden frames by the windows. Something never do after a painful experience some years back!

The other issue is that apart from one trailer on the MER which has to be booked often several days in advance there is no disability access. In this day and age that is very poor. For several years when my late mother became wheelchair bound it was necessary to phone Laxey Station a few days before my trip over to the IoM to book the trailer. This summer I was on a couple of days in the company of someone who was ambulatory but found great difficulty getting up into the cars and needed help from myself and other willing hands to get on board.

MER need to have accessible trams built into the schedule. A couple of modern low floor trams one based at Ramsey and one at Douglas could operate a basic service providing transport for those in wheelchairs or less able to climb up.
IMR need a couple of carriages converted into wheelchair saloons. SMR need a lift fitting to at least one of their cars. Since 2023 aluminum steps have been provided at Laxey and Snaefell Summit to assist passengers boarding the SMR cars but that is not really sufficient.

In this day and age lack of access is really just not on - virtually every UK based heritage railway offers an accessible option on most services. Most of us able bodied folk just take being able to jump on and off a train or tram but that disabling mishap could be just around the corner.

 

[Skymonster]

One or two of the MER vehicles have been in service for a considerable number of seasons and are tired (and are scheduled for withdrawal / refurbishment) while others that have recently returned to service are close to pristine - very similar to any heritage railway really. A lot of work has been and still does go on behind the scenes in Derby Castle Depot and Laxey Car Shed, with some vehicles that have been out of use for a long time nearing recommissioning.

While accessibility isn’t directly related to the financial viability of the heritage rail operations on the island (the subject of this topic), the only viable option would be to have a vehicle specially built - so as to not ruin the authenticity of the existing stock, some of which is 100+ years old, which is what the visitors come for. With the operation loosing £3.5m a year, good luck with lobbying the Manx government for that (sic)!

 

[Krokodil]

the only viable option would be to have a vehicle specially built - so as to not ruin the authenticity of the existing stock

If you have more than one example of a given class of tramcar then you aren't losing anything unique if one gets converted. Even better if the donor vehicle is a long-demic one (wasn't there a cache of rotten vehicles from the various railways kept off-site in a barn or hangar a few years ago?)

 

[eldomtom2]

Is the MER a UNESCO World Heritage site?

No.

 

[nanstallon]

The IoM vintage transport system brings in so many visitors wh spend on meals and accommodation, that it would be silly to piffly wiffle about closing bits of it. The Laxey to Ramsey section is the most scenic ride of all, and as Ramsey has long lost its stem railway, it would be better to leave matters as they are.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

It should be noted that the same newspaper article in the first post also says:

The DOI report also revealed the costs of running the island’s buses which carries 12,000 passengers each day. It says the income is £5.2m but costs £12.1 to run.

By my reckoning that means the Island's bus company, Bus Vannin, lost £6.9m, nearly twice as much as the Railways. Now I admit that the bus network provides a valuable service to the Island's residents, BUT, so do the Railways, in one way or the other - by creating jobs, hotel and restaurant bookings, and income for the residents from tourism spending.

I don't see any calls to chop the bus network in bits and stop serving parts of the Island or stop running buses at certain times, although I do note that most of the summer only services serving some of the more rural areas, or out of the way places of interest, have disappeared in recent years.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

I've put my tin hat on in anticipation of the flak, but wouldn't it be better to modernise the MER with new tramcars to provide a decent all year round service and drive patronage? A 'heritage service' using the historic cars, in summer and other holiday periods, between Douglas and Laxey only would be provided à la Blackpool. It would also reduce the wear and tear on the old cars. I'm not a great lover of the horse tramway either - I'd extend the MER to the Sea Terminal to make it more accessible and useful, or even have street running to the town centre and railway station.

 

[godfreycomplex]

I've put my tin hat on in anticipation of the flak, but wouldn't it be better to modernise the MER with new tramcars to provide a decent all year round service and drive patronage? A 'heritage service' using the historic cars, in summer and other holiday periods, between Douglas and Laxey only would be provided à la Blackpool. It would also reduce the wear and tear on the old cars. I'm not a great lover of the horse tramway either - I'd extend the MER to the Sea Terminal to make it more accessible and useful, or even have street running to the town centre and railway station.

I think the main reason this hasn’t been considered is the capital cost of a bespoke new fleet of trams with a very unusual track gauge, resilient enough to operate a steeply graded line next to the sea consistently all year, with all the maintenance facilities that that would require, would be (comparatively speaking) astronomical

 

[70014IronDuke]

Is the MER a UNESCO World Heritage site? If so can they actually close any of it?

WHS status is awarded by Unesco. I seriously doubt it has any legal status in any national jurisdiction.
I don't know if it started with good intentions, but in my opinion today it is a branding con trick. Places are desperate to get the 'accreditation' because it brings in more unthinking tourists if they have the badge.
The only sanction involved if a site is "changed" outside "the rules" is the loss of WHS status - but the rules can be interpreted very liberally.

 

[Western 52]

Controversial with some I guess, but should the island's railways be operated more as UK preserved lines, with a greater role for volunteers? This could make them more viable financially, although I know they currently provide employment.

 

[Krokodil]

I've put my tin hat on in anticipation of the flak, but wouldn't it be better to modernise the MER with new tramcars to provide a decent all year round service and drive patronage? A 'heritage service' using the historic cars, in summer and other holiday periods, between Douglas and Laxey only would be provided à la Blackpool. It would also reduce the wear and tear on the old cars. I'm not a great lover of the horse tramway either - I'd extend the MER to the Sea Terminal to make it more accessible and useful, or even have street running to the town centre and railway station.

3ft gauge is pretty much obsolete for tramways, I'm pretty sure that all of the tramways in Europe that used to use it are now metre or standard gauge. So unless you can find some 750mm tramcars and widen the gauge (presumably the Basel ones are scrapped now) then you'll be forced to buy new which is unaffordable. Regauging metre gauge low-floor trams would probably be impractical.

I actually like the idea, it's just too expensive.

Controversial with some I guess, but should the island's railways be operated more as UK preserved lines, with a greater role for volunteers? This could make them more viable financially, although I know they currently provide employment.

It's a small island with a population of 84k. How many willing unpaid volunteers are you going to find out of that who aren't already committed to the Groudle Glen or to building replica wagons and running museums?

 

[John Luxton]

I've put my tin hat on in anticipation of the flak, but wouldn't it be better to modernise the MER with new tramcars to provide a decent all year round service and drive patronage? A 'heritage service' using the historic cars, in summer and other holiday periods, between Douglas and Laxey only would be provided à la Blackpool. It would also reduce the wear and tear on the old cars. I'm not a great lover of the horse tramway either - I'd extend the MER to the Sea Terminal to make it more accessible and useful, or even have street running to the town centre and railway station.

What they need are two or three modern cars to run a basic year round service which also address the accessibility issues the old stock presents.

The modern cars would run to a timetable thus people would know when a modern or heritage car was due.

If the modern cars were battery fitted they could could run to the Sea Terminal or at least the bottom of Broadway the current horse tram terminal as all the new promenade track is heavy duty and presumably when (if?) they restore the track to the Sea Terminal then that would be heavy duty as well.