issue regarding flexi season ticket from Bedford to London Thameslink

[Not_guilty]

I would like to get the views of members on whether I have been treated unfairly and whether I am likely to be prosecuted.

On Sunday, 16 March I bought a flexi season ticket from Bedford to London Thameslink starting from Monday, 17 March. It was the first time I have bought a flexi season ticket and this was purchased online through the Thameslink website. The cost was £387.80

At the time of purchase I assumed that I would be given a collection code and would need print off the ticket at the station. After completing the purchase it became clear that this was not the case. The information on screen referred me to the Thameslink app, so I downloaded the app, expecting to be able to use my ticket through the app. After downloading the app it became clear that I needed a smartcard, which I didn't have, so on the Monday morning I went to the ticket counter at Bedford station to get the smartcard that I needed to travel.

The lady at the counter explained that she would not be able to load my flexi season ticket to the card because she could only load tickets bought at the station. I said that this was not a problem because I could scan my smartcard against my phone to link the ticket to smartcard.

I scanned the smartcard against my phone and the app linked to the smartcard and displayed the smartcard number on the screen. So far so good, only it wasn't. There was no way to link the flexi season ticket that I had already purchased the night before to the smartcard. I tried several times without success, even after restarting the app and my phone.

I asked the member of staff stood at the barriers for assistance. She tried scanning the smartcard against my phone but was also unsuccessful. She said "the system must be down" and opened the barrier. I then boarded my train to London.

I got off the train at City Thameslink and when I got to the barrier I immediately asked a member of staff for assistance and started to explain what had happened.

She passed me to someone else and stated "he will be able to help you". I then explained the full story to someone that turned out to be a Fraud Officer (the only reason I know this is because it was written on the back of his jacket). I showed the Fraud Officer that I had purchased a flexi season ticket. This showed that I had purchased the ticket on Sunday, 16 March for use beginning from Monday, 17 March. I explained that the ticket wouldn't link to my smartcard and that I had been told that the system was down. The Fraud Officer confidently told me that you just need to scan the smartcard against my phone. I told him that it was not that simple, he took my phone and smartcard and was also unable to link the smartcard to my ticket.

He then began filling out a form on his electronic device. At this point I thought he was reporting the fault so that the IT glitch could be rectified. He then asked me for ID, which I provided and lots of other information including my eye colour. This is where I began to question the process. He told me that he would need to caution me. I protested my innocence and he said that it wasn't like a police caution and gave me the impression that it was something very minor and just part of the process of getting it all sorted. Later on I started to question the process because I could see the title on his electronic device said "offence details" or "details of offence" (I can't remember the exact words, but it was words to that effect). I said "hang on, no offence has been committed", but he continued to press ahead with filling out the form. The lady that I had initially approached looked very embarrassed as to what was happening, but because I am not a fare evader I naively, even at this stage, failed to grasp the gravity of the situation. The Fraud Officer then printed an orange slip and signed it. He then folded it up and handed it to me and I was allowed to exit the station. At this point I was already going to be late for work, so off I went.

During my lunchbreak I read the slip that I had been given and was mortified to find out that it was a Witness Statement saying that I may be prosecuted. I feel that the Fraud Officer took advantage of the situation. He seemed to downplay the importance of what was happening and was not really interested in the facts that I had presented to him, including showing him proof of my purchase. I believe that there must be some kind of financial incentive for him to issue Witness Statements / notices of prosecution and feel that I was treated unfairly.

I spoke to a Revenue Protection Officer at Bedford station the following day. I explained everything to him again and showed my flexi season ticket purchase and that my smartcard didn't work. He said that he thinks I will be OK, but I am worried that the prosecutions department may have a different view. I have seen some horror stories on the news recently which appear to confirm that there are some overzealous individuals churning out penalty notices for fun.

I am also concerned that the Witness Statement does not show my statement on it, so I can't be sure whether the correct information has been recorded and even so whether it had been completed in sufficient detail. The officer signed the Witness Statement, I was not asked to sign it. Is this the usual process? It seems odd to me that I don't get a copy of the information that has been taken. I am not sure whether it is my Witness Statement or his Witness Statement?

My questions to any experts in this forum are:

1) Do you think I will be prosecuted, or will the case be dropped after I explain everything to the prosecutions department?
2) Is it usual practice for the Fraud Officer to sign the Witness Statement?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[dciuk]

It will be interesting to see what other forum members think, but having been let through the barriers at Bedford after seeking assistance would that imply the op was given permission to travel?

 

[yorkie]

It will be interesting to see what other forum members think, but having been let through the barriers at Bedford after seeking assistance would that imply the op was given permission to travel?

Absolutely this. 100%.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I would like to get the views of members on whether I have been treated unfairly and whether I am likely to be prosecuted.

On Sunday, 16 March I bought a flexi season ticket from Bedford to London Thameslink starting from Monday, 17 March. It was the first time I have bought a flexi season ticket and this was purchased online through the Thameslink website. The cost was £387.80

At the time of purchase I assumed that I would be given a collection code and would need print off the ticket at the station. After completing the purchase it became clear that this was not the case. The information on screen referred me to the Thameslink app, so I downloaded the app, expecting to be able to use my ticket through the app. After downloading the app it became clear that I needed a smartcard, which I didn't have, so on the Monday morning I went to the ticket counter at Bedford station to get the smartcard that I needed to travel.

I've just gone through the purchase flow on the Thameslink website.

Before you pay, it asks you to choose what delivery option you want.

This can either be an sTicket (barcode), which you'd need to display in the Thameslink app (under "My tickets") or by loading it to a new or existing Smartcard.

If you've already got a Smartcard saved in your account, it will set it up to load to that card without prompting you to enter a Smartcard number.

 

[WesternLancer]

Alongside how to deal with the predicament resulting from the report for investigation I would assume it’s important for the op to raise in writing with the railway why a ticket they have spent a lot of money on does not operate.

You should not expect this to end in prosecution but you may well need help to navigate the process in order to avoid the machine going in that direction. This forum is the place to get that help at least.

 

[furlong]

What happened later? Did you eventually get it to work? How and when?

 

[Not_guilty]

What happened later? Did you eventually get it to work? How and when?

I was unable to get it working, so I had to buy paper tickets instead. I was told by Customer Services to claim a refund online, but when I did this the pink button to claim a refund would not light up so I was unable to select it or claim my refund.

I called Customer Services for a second time and was told that I cannot claim a refund online because the process had changed. I was told that I would need to get a refund from the train station. I was also told that I could get a paper version flexi season ticket from the station.

On Wednesday, 26 March I went to the ticket counter at Bedford station. I explained that I wanted a refund and a new flexi season ticket. I was told that I could not get a refund at the station. This was either something to do with purchasing online or because I didn't have a ticket to hand over. I was also told that I couldn't get a paper flexi season ticket. I advised that this is what I had been told by Customer Services and was told "they don't know what they're on about".

So, I bought a new flexi season ticket and the lady at the counter was able to load it onto the same smartcard that I had been trying to use, because this time I had purchased the flexi season at the station. This now works fine. I left the station without getting a refund. The supervisor at the station took my details and promised to follow up.

On Friday, 28 March the supervisor phoned me to tell me that she had so far been unable to resolve the refund issue but she would continue to work on it. She asked if the money had definitely debited my account, which it had. I later checked my bank and found that a refund was received on Wednesday, 26 March. I called the supervisor back to tell her that the refund issue had been resolved.

I don't know whether the refund was triggered by the purchase of my new flexi season ticket or because someone had processed it from my earlier calls to Customer Services.

So, now the only remaining issue is the potential prosecution. I haven't yet received the letter from the prosecutions department.

I've just gone through the purchase flow on the Thameslink website.

Before you pay, it asks you to choose what delivery option you want.

This can either be an sTicket (barcode), which you'd need to display in the Thameslink app (under "My tickets") or by loading it to a new or existing Smartcard.

If you've already got a Smartcard saved in your account, it will set it up to load to that card without prompting you to enter a Smartcard number.

This is an interesting point. When I visited Bedford station on Monday, 17th March to get a smartcard I was asked for my email address. When I provided my email address the lady at the counter said that I already had a smartcard. At that moment I was surprised by this because I didn't recall having one. She said that she could give me a new smartcard but I had to give her another email address, which I did. Then she handed me a smartcard which subsequently didn't work.

In hindsight I do now remember that I have used a smartcard previously, but I have no idea where this card is and I may have thrown it away some time ago. Over the past 10 years I have been a regular commuter into London and have spent tens of thousands of pounds on tickets, usually annual season tickets. I think these were initially paper tickets but then went onto smartcard. I can't remember the last time I used the Thameslink smartcard because until recently I had an annual season ticket through Abellio, so I had been using the Abellio smartcard, not the Thameslink version.

 

[Haywain]

until recently I had an annual season ticket through Abellio, so I had been using the Abellio smartcard,

It's not a lot of help now but a flexi-season bought at the station could have been loaded to that smartcard.

 

[saismee]

In hindsight I do now remember that I have used a smartcard previously, but I have no idea where this card is and I may have thrown it away some time ago..

I think that's the root of the issue here. Whichever app you used to purchase your flexi season ticket must have chosen to load it onto your existing smartcard. I've been through this before and everyone I spoke to said they're unable to load it onto a new smartcard when it's already assigned to one, and they are unable to duplicate a smartcard. I was very lucky to be let off by multiple members of staff.

I agree that it seems you were given permission to travel by the gateline staff, but in all honestly I don't know how much that is worth. Gateline don't have all that much authority and don't have any facilities to issue penalties or sell tickets, so usually just let people through with iffy tickets and hope that someone else will sort it on the way. It would have been better to get permission from revenue staff or the guard before boarding.

Can anyone think of a stronger defence? I honestly think smartcard issues should have similar rules to forgetting a railcard... they're so temperamental, especially if you're using a flexi season at a station without a tap on point/barriers.

 

[Not_guilty]

I would just add that I bought the flexi season through the Thameslink website, not the app. There was no smartcard showing in the website when I accessed my account. When I downloaded the Thameslink app there was also no existing smartcard showing. It was only after obtaining the new smartcard and scanning it with my phone that there was a smartcard linked to the app.

 

[swing]

I would just add that I bought the flexi season through the Thameslink website, not the app. There was no smartcard showing in the website when I accessed my account.

What does the email confirmation of the purchase state you needed to do next (normally the email will either clearly include a Ticket Collection code to enter to collect a physical ticket, will list the exact smartcard serial number the ticket needs to be loaded onto, or will talk about using the mobile app to activate each day of a flexi)?

 

[Not_guilty]

What does the email confirmation of the purchase state you needed to do next (normally the email will either clearly include a Ticket Collection code to enter to collect a physical ticket, will list the exact smartcard serial number the ticket needs to be loaded onto, or will talk about using the mobile app to activate each day of a flexi)?

I have attached a copy of the email that I received on 16 March 2025 after purchasing the flexi season ticket through the Thameslink website.

I can see that there is a smartcard reference on the email confirmation. It begins with the number 6 and ends in 1. This number matches what is now displayed in my app, but it does not match the number printed on the back of the Key smartcard that I was given on 17 March 2025. I can only assume the number on the email confirmation is the number of my previous smartcard, which I no longer have.

The strange part is that the app didn't display any smartcard details until I picked up and scanned my new smartcard on 17 March 2025, but after scanning the new smartcard against my phone it is the old smartcard number that is shown in the app (despite this not being the reference number of the smartcard I had scanned against my phone).

 

[Haywain]

I suspect that if you log in to your account on the Thameslink website, you will find that card listed in the Key Smartcard tickets section.

 

[Not_guilty]

I suspect that if you log in to your account on the Thameslink website, you will find that card listed in the Key Smartcard tickets section.

You are correct. Yes, it does. So, the number showing in the Key Smartcard section of my website account is the same as what is showing in my app, but is not the same as the number on the back of the new smartcard that I am now using.

I have no idea whether the information in the Key Smartcard section of my website account has been updated since all this began. I suspect it may have done because the expiry date shown on the website matches the date printed on the back of my new smartcard. The status says "Active". Perhaps had I visited the same section of my website account before all the problems it may have said something different?

 

[Hadders]

This all sounds like an unfortunate situation. I think the key issue now is dealing with the letter from GTR's Prosecutions Office as they will almost certainly send one.

As a matter of urgency, I would submit a subject access request to GTR for a copy of the CCTV recording showing you being let through the barrier at Bedford station on Monday 17th March. This might be useful when replying to GTR.

I think they main thing here will be to make sure your reply to GTR clearly sets out what has happened very concisely so that it is easy for the person reading it to understand it. We can assist you with this if you upload a redacted copy of GTR's letter along with your draft reply.

One thing to bear in mind is did you pay for your travel on 17th March? If you couldn't activate the flexi-season ticket then I assume the fare for this day is still due. Did you buy a ticket for your return journey? It will be worth clarifying this in your reply to GTR.

 

[Not_guilty]

This all sounds like an unfortunate situation. I think the key issue now is dealing with the letter from GTR's Prosecutions Office as they will almost certainly send one.

As a matter of urgency, I would submit a subject access request to GTR for a copy of the CCTV recording showing you being let through the barrier at Bedford station on Monday 17th March. This might be useful when replying to GTR.

I think they main thing here will be to make sure your reply to GTR clearly sets out what has happened very concisely so that it is easy for the person reading it to understand it. We can assist you with this if you upload a redacted copy of GTR's letter along with your draft reply.

One thing to bear in mind is did you pay for your travel on 17th March? If you couldn't activate the flexi-season ticket then I assume the fare for this day is still due. Did you buy a ticket for your return journey? It will be worth clarifying this in your reply to GTR.

Thanks Hadders. I have requested the CCTV, which has been acknowledged by Thameslink, so I am hoping that they will provide it.

On 17 March, I paid for the return leg only. I was given the Witness Statement when I exited City Thameslink in the morning and ushered through the barrier. I wasn't asked to pay for my journey into London.

When I returned after work I purchased a single to Bedford at a cost of £31.30 because the smartcard issue hadn't been resolved. I still have the receipt for this purchase.

I also travelled from Bedford to London and back on 18 March and bought a day return at a cost of £55.40 because nobody could resolve my smartcard issue. All this, despite £387.80 having been debited from my account for the flexi-season purchase, which I was unable to get a refund on until 26 March.

 

[Haywain]

All this, despite £387.80 having been debited from my account for the flexi-season purchase, which I was unable to get a refund on until 26 March.

As you have had a refund the journey into London on 17th has not been paid for, so when you receive a letter from GTR it is important that you offer to pay for that.

 

[Not_guilty]

I raised a complaint with Thameslink after the incident. Yesterday, I received the attached response.

I would welcome any views on this.

As you have had a refund the journey into London on 17th has not been paid for, so when you receive a letter from GTR it is important that you offer to pay for that.

That's good advice.

The point I find quite annoying is that I would have paid for that journey on the spot had the Fraud Officer asked me to. I was following his directions and now I have to beg for clemency from the prosecutions department by saying that I am willing to pay for that ticket too!

On the day I was still of the opinion that someone was going to fix the original issue and that my smartcard would be debited accordingly.

Very frustrating, but I will of course follow your advice. Thank you

As you have had a refund the journey into London on 17th has not been paid for, so when you receive a letter from GTR it is important that you offer to pay for that.

That's good advice.

The point I find quite annoying is that I would have paid for that journey on the spot had the Fraud Officer asked me to. I was following his directions and now I have to beg for clemency from the prosecutions department by saying that I am willing to pay for that ticket too!

On the day I was still of the opinion that someone was going to fix the original issue and that my smartcard would be debited accordingly.

Very frustrating, but I will of course follow your advice. Thank you

 

[Haywain]

Yesterday, I received the attached response.

I would welcome any views on this.

The letter does show that your situation has been understood by the customer relations team, but this is not the letter that you will need to be responding to - that will come from the prosecutions team. At that time it may be appropriate to include the email/letter that you sent to GTR and the above reply as these seem likely to do most of the explaining for you.

now I have to beg for clemency from the prosecutions department by saying that I am willing to pay for that ticket too!

I don't think that you have to "beg for clemency", but you do need to explain the situation (again) and offer to pay the (currently) unpaid fare. GTR are known to be a reasonable company to deal with in these matters and are unlikely, in my view, to ask for more than the single fare but may well only ask for the difference up to the return fare.

 

[SteveM70]

GTR are known to be a reasonable company to deal with in these matters and are unlikely, in my view, to ask for more than the single fare but may well only ask for the difference up to the return fare.

Or possibly the difference between what was paid and the relevant proportion of the flexi season, as that's what the OP would have paid if everything had worked, although this is perhaps unlikely to be offered

 

[Not_guilty]

The letter does show that your situation has been understood by the customer relations team, but this is not the letter that you will need to be responding to - that will come from the prosecutions team. At that time it may be appropriate to include the email/letter that you sent to GTR and the above reply as these seem likely to do most of the explaining for you.

I don't think that you have to "beg for clemency", but you do need to explain the situation (again) and offer to pay the (currently) unpaid fare. GTR are known to be a reasonable company to deal with in these matters and are unlikely, in my view, to ask for more than the single fare but may well only ask for the difference up to the return fare.

Yes, I think that paying the difference of £24.10 is reasonable (£55.40-£31.30), although I wouldn't quibble if I also had to pay a single fare of £31.30.

What I do quibble over is what I consider to be the shocking treatment of an honest passenger. I'm not sure this would be tolerated in most other industries, but the railways seem to have their special privileges and licence to treat people as they please.

I accept that most railway staff are decent hardworking people, but I do think that this could have easily been prevented by the staff at Bedford station and handled differently by the Fraud Officer at City Thameslink. This experience is pushing me to work from home more often as I don't expect to be treated in this way.

I am reassured to hear that GTR is known to be a reasonable company to deal with in these matters. I certainly hope so.

 

[Haywain]

What I do quibble over is what I consider to be the shocking treatment of an honest passenger.

As you will find on this forum there are plenty of passengers who are dishonest, and the staff dealing with these matters deal with dozens every day. There is no easy way of telling who is honest and who is giving a cock and bull story to cover their dishonesty.

I do think that this could have easily been prevented by the staff at Bedford station

Agreed, they should not have allowed you through the barrier without a ticket, as GTR have acknowledged.

 

[MotCO]

Agreed, they should not have allowed you through the barrier without a ticket, as GTR have acknowledged.

Does this constitute proof that the OP had railway permission to travel?

 

[Hadders]

There's two separate issues here.

1. The failed transaction/smartcard/refund - presumably this is being dealt with through customer services. This is related to but separate to:

2. The journey on 17th March from Bedford to City Thameslink where details were taken and will be dealt with by the Prosecutions Department

The important thing here is to deal with the Prosecutions Department side of things. Both parts are related but it's the prosecutions department that can cause significant issues.

 

[Not_guilty]

As you will find on this forum there are plenty of passengers who are dishonest, and the staff dealing with these matters deal with dozens every day. There is no easy way of telling who is honest and who is giving a cock and bull story to cover their dishonesty.

Agreed. I have read a few of them. I am also surprised to see that some of these people look for advice in how to get out of the situation that they have put themselves in. Surely, if you deliberately choose to ignore the rules in order to benefit financially and you are caught then you should simply live with the consequences.

I appreciate that it can be difficult for staff to tell the difference between genuine issues and cock and bull stories, but I gave the Fraud Officer all of the information he required. I showed that I had paid the £387.80 and I explained the issue. He even tried scanning the card against my phone himself to no avail.

Not once did any of the three staff that day explain the rather complex Interops issue that Thameslink Customer Services have now highlighted in their letter.

There's two separate issues here.

1. The failed transaction/smartcard/refund - presumably this is being dealt with through customer services. This is related to but separate to:

2. The journey on 17th March from Bedford to City Thameslink where details were taken and will be dealt with by the Prosecutions Department

The important thing here is to deal with the Prosecutions Department side of things. Both parts are related but it's the prosecutions department that can cause significant issues.

Agreed.

Issue 1 is now fully resolved. It led to issue 2, but I have now been refunded and have a smartcard that is working so do not envisage any further problems on that front.

The remaining issue is issue 2 as you quite rightly point out and I can't deal with that until I receive the letter from the prosecutions department.

 

[Haywain]

I am also surprised to see that some of these people look for advice in how to get out of the situation that they have put themselves in. Surely, if you deliberately choose to ignore the rules in order to benefit financially and you are caught then you should simply live with the consequences.

We try to help people get the best outcome that they can, but do not try to help people 'get off'.

Not once did any of the three staff that day explain the rather complex Interops issue that Thameslink Customer Services have now highlighted in their letter.

I doubt any of them would have understood the situation and how it had arisen. The key factor was that you had a smartcard registered to your account, but had a different smartcard. Having worked in a role that involved investigating such matters, it wouldn't have been obvious to me when standing at a gateline either.

 

[AlterEgo]

Agreed. I have read a few of them. I am also surprised to see that some of these people look for advice in how to get out of the situation that they have put themselves in. Surely, if you deliberately choose to ignore the rules in order to benefit financially and you are caught then you should simply live with the consequences.

This part of the forum provides impartial advice to people who, intentionally or otherwise, are caught up in trouble. It may transpire that, in fact, you are guilty of a strict liability offence, which requires no intent.

As you have found, there are many ways train companies behave which are wrong, improper, and an abuse of their position.

Everyone deserves a defence; train companies have a wealth of power at their disposal and this makes for an asymmetric balance of power between the accuser (who also gets to prosecute!) and the accused.

 

[Not_guilty]

Incidentally, does anyone know what this statement means on my Witness Statement.

It gives me the impression that the inspector that gave me the Witness Statement gave retrospective permission to travel, which may be the reason that he didn't ask me to pay when I arrived at City Thameslink. The confusing part is that this seems to apply for 2 hours from 09.11, which was the time when he handed me the Witness Statement rather than the time I started my journey. Or is this simply how they are worded, does it mean two hours backwards from 09.11?

 

[AlterEgo]

Incidentally, does anyone know what this statement means on my Witness Statement.

It gives me the impression that the inspector that gave me the Witness Statement gave retrospective permission to travel, which may be the reason that he didn't ask me to pay when I arrived at City Thameslink. The confusing part is that this seems to apply for 2 hours from 09.11, which was the time when he handed me the Witness Statement rather than the time I started my journey. Or is this simply how they are worded, does it mean two hours backwards from 09.11?

This simply means that you have been given a receipt to say you’ve already been stopped, and you can show it to anyone else who stops you on the same journey so the matter isn’t recorded twice. It isn’t retrospective permission to travel, it’s a standard form.

 

[Not_guilty]

Also, does anyone know what the purpose of this statement is. It is on the Witness Statement. It reads that the Fraud Officer can be prosecuted, or is it supposed to relate to me as the passenger? I am not sure if it is just poorly worded? (Serious question).