Key smartcard, season tickets and the LU inter-availability, WLW to London Terminals

[Dickon Reed]

Hi. My commute is WLW -> Moorgate, and next week fast services WLW -> KGX return in the rush hour. I am now commuting enough to get an annual season ticket worthwhile. I have previously being use Thameslink KeyGo to travel, and was aware from various RailUK threads and https://internal.nationalrail.co.uk/ikb/london/inter-available-routes/ that, as I understand it, there is ticket inter-availability. Therefore I should be able to take a Thameslink service from WLW to KGX, exit the barriers, enter the London Underground using the same ticket (in this case my Key smartcard) and then exit again at Moorgate. However, when I did this with KeyGo, the KeyGo thameslink history shows "Smart Payg Misuse" for Kings Cross Underground to Moorgate and, later in the day, Moorgate to Kings Cross Underground, with a red bar. I tried buying a weekly season ticket this week, since I wasn't clear that KeyGo was covered by the inter-available rules, but got the same effect.

I have therefore often asked the staff to let me through the barriers, often when the direct Finsbury Park to Moorgate service was disrupted, and that's usually fine. However, maybe 10% of staff don't allow that, including one who radioed back to somoene to check ticket acceptance and was told I wasn't allowed. So that's too much of a pain for a daily commute.

If I do paper single or return tickets I would expect the barrier to eat the outbound ticket at Kings Cross.

So I think my only options, assuming that this is actually compliant, is to continue to ask to be let through, get a paper season ticket, ignore the "Smart payg misuse" messages and hope I get find, or (probably best) get a second ITSO Key card and load a season ticket to that?

This seems a bit unsatisfactory; if DfT ever get credit card contactless extended out to WLW I'd hope they'd program it to take into account the inter-available routings and charge appopriately, but the last I heard on that was when Shapps was minister for transport.

 

[Haywain]

First, KeyGo has restrictions on where it can be used and it cannot be used on London Underground, so you can't use KeyGo for a Welwyn to Moorgate journey via King's Cross.

Second, a paper ticket won't be retained by barriers at King's Cross and should be accepted for a transfer to Moorgate by LU staff.

Third, a season ticket held on a Key smartcard should work all the relevant barriers for you to make that journey. I teated such use for seasons on LNER smartcards as part of their introduction, and the same shiuld apply to Key smartcards.

 

[Dickon Reed]

Thanks Haywain. The barriers at Kings Cross 9/10 didn’t eat the ticket. However, the Kings Cross Underground barriers did not accept a paper Anytime Day Return WLW to London terminals this morning.

I spoke to someone at the GTR call centre this morning who did not know what “Smart Payg misuse” means or what would happen.

 

[Haywain]

However, the Kings Cross Underground barriers did not accept a paper Anytime Day Return WLW to London terminals this morning.

The London Underground barriers at King's Cross do not accept these (paper) tickets, you have to show it to gateline staff.

 

[MrJeeves]

However, when I did this with KeyGo, the KeyGo thameslink history shows "Smart Payg Misuse" for Kings Cross Underground to Moorgate and, later in the day, Moorgate to Kings Cross Underground, with a red bar. I tried buying a weekly season ticket this week, since I wasn't clear that KeyGo was covered by the inter-available rules, but got the same effect.

This will be because the backoffice system that keyGo uses isn't aware of the interavailability, so can't resolve that journey to the ticket which is loaded onto the smartcard, but also can't charge for it through keyGo as it's not a GTR service.

If you'd like to avoid this, your only option is to get one smartcard for keyGo and another for your season and try not to mix them up!

 

[Hadders]

Thanks Haywain. The barriers at Kings Cross 9/10 didn’t eat the ticket. However, the Kings Cross Underground barriers did not accept a paper Anytime Day Return WLW to London terminals this morning.

I spoke to someone at the GTR call centre this morning who did not know what “Smart Payg misuse” means or what would happen.

The barriers at Kings Cross St Pancras used to accept tickets to 'London Terminals' but they were re-programmed to reject them a few years ago because there is no way for the barriers to distinguish London Terminals ticketrs which the inter-availability applied to from those that didn't.

This cased considerable confusion at the time because staff were not briefed but my own experience is that LU staff do know about the inter-availabiluty and will let passengers through if you say you're going to Moorgate.